Class 717 - white snout?!

[sc597]

Hello All! Was passing through Finsbury Park yesterday and noticed 717023 going through with a very pale front. Does UK rolling stock no longer have to have yellow frontage for safety reasons, or is this some sort of test train? It looked like it was in normal service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yellow fronts are no longer required if lighting is up to a certain specification, though I do think those look odd with just plain white!

 

[sc597]

Thanks Bletchleyite, and I agree.

 

[swt_passenger]

To add to previous reply complete yellow “fronts“ were never actually required, only relatively small panels - there was far more yellow applied for aesthetic reasons than for safety.

But the general requirement in previous rail group standards for yellow warning panels was withdrawn about 6 or 7 years ago, however it was quite some time before the first new units without the yellow entered service. There’s quite a few classes around now, the 717s were not the first.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No Class 717 has a yellow front

 

[hexagon789]

As long as the lighting meets standards, the traditional yellow warning panels can be dispensed with.

EL 345s, LUMO 803s, TPE 802s, TPE 397s, GN 717s, LO 710s, TfW's new fleets, WMR 196 & 730, Avanti's under-construction 805/807s and EMR's 810s all lack yellow ends. Plus LSL and RailAventure HST power cars ('Blue Pullman' and White/Grey respectively

So we've got - black, white, blue, purple, orange, purple and red ends instead...

(Edited thrice)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

the 717s were not the first.

As long as the lighting meets standards, the traditional yellow warning panels can be dispensed with.

LUMO 803s, TPE 802s, the TL 700s, GN 717s, TfW's new fleets, Avanti's under-construction 805/807s and EMR's 810s all lack yellow ends.

So we've got - black, white, blue, purple and red ends instead...

And 345s. They were the first.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Black probably looks one of the best because you can't see all the dead flies. The 350s look terrible with a bright yellow gangway (not in itself a pretty thing) caked in flies.

 

[hexagon789]

And 345s. They were the first.

Thanks, I knew I'd forget at least one class!

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks, I knew I'd forget at least one class!

I think you cancelled that out by including 700s that do still have a yellow panel.

I think TPE 397s and LO 710s haven’t been mentioned?

 

[hexagon789]

I think you cancelled that out by including 700s that do still have a yellow panel.

I think TPE 397s and LO 710s haven’t been mentioned?

Good point, I forgot the 397s, which I should remember as they are local to me. The 700s I don't know why I included tbh, I know they have yellow panels.

Probably the usual, trying to type a reply too quickly without reviewing what I've typed!


What about the Merseyrail 777s and the Tyne and Wear Metro fleets? (The latter do often have yellow in the livery, but is it really a warning panel?)

 

[pdeaves]

To clarify (not that anyone seems confused); if the lighting complies there is no need for yellow fronts, but you are still allowed yellow fronts.

 

[43096]

As long as the lighting meets standards, the traditional yellow warning panels can be dispensed with.

EL 345s, LUMO 803s, TPE 802s, TPE 397s, GN 717s, LO 710s, TfW's new fleets, Avanti's under-construction 805/807s and EMR's 810s all lack yellow ends.

So we've got - black, white, blue, purple and red ends instead...

(Edited)

Add LSL and RailAdventure Class 43s to the list.

 

[Dave W]

Ah I quite like the 717 fronts, I think they look smart (although inevitably a closer inspection reveals everything it's hit in the last hour, although that's no different from the 700's yellow front)

 

[sc597]

Black probably looks one of the best because you can't see all the dead flies. The 350s look terrible with a bright yellow gangway (not in itself a pretty thing) caked in flies.

Heh, yes that is definitely not a good look. The 'insect-mageddon' occasionally predicted by the papers on slow news days definitely hasn't yet translated into bug-free train lines!

 

[Deepgreen]

Ah I quite like the 717 fronts, I think they look smart (although inevitably a closer inspection reveals everything it's hit in the last hour, although that's no different from the 700's yellow front)

In the last "hour"? More like several days! These, by the way, had plain fronts long before the units mentioned...!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though if you can't tell that's coming you've got your fingers in your ears and a blindfold on!

 

[Bayum]

It’s an interesting colour scheme - some YouTube videos or pictures I see I have to blink a few times to check that it’s not a black and white video/picture.

 

[hexagon789]

Add LSL and RailAdventure Class 43s to the list.

Thanks, added

 

[Mikey C]

The 717 livery is desperately dull. The 700s are bad enough, but at least have a yellow front to give a bit of visual interest!

Interestingly all the 707s have a yellow front, whether in SWT livery or Southeastern

 

[D365]

No Class 717 has a yellow front

Easy to get them mixed up as GTR/Great Northern also operates Class 700s. Which, other than the unit lengths, are outwardly very similar.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Easy to get them mixed up as GTR/Great Northern also operates Class 700s. Which, other than the unit lengths, are outwardly very similar.

I’m completely aware of all of that, as you’d expect.
I was giving the OP this information in case he wondered which 717s had white fronts and which didn’t.

 

[bnsf734]

As long as the lighting meets standards, the traditional yellow warning panels can be dispensed with.

EL 345s, LUMO 803s, TPE 802s, TPE 397s, GN 717s, LO 710s, TfW's new fleets, Avanti's under-construction 805/807s and EMR's 810s all lack yellow ends. Plus LSL and RailAventure HST power cars ('Blue Pullman' and White/Grey respectively

So we've got - black, white, blue, purple and red ends instead...

(Edited twice)

West Midland Railway 196 and 730 class ends are orange and purple. No yellow to be seen.

 

[hexagon789]

West Midland Railway 196 and 730 class ends are orange and purple. No yellow to be seen.

Thank you

 

[Wivenswold]

Some new units got yellow front ends even though they didn't need them. Greater Anglia applied them to all units (classes 720/745/755) due to the amount of uncontrolled foot crossings in East Anglia.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Some new units got yellow front ends even though they didn't need them. Greater Anglia applied them to all units (classes 720/745/755) due to the amount of uncontrolled foot crossings in East Anglia.

Arguably a real shame too, to me. They'd look so much better with an all red front, very SBB-esque. And no, I'm not one of those tiresome people who worship SBB in every way, but the front of their FLIRTS look nicer than ours do

 

[Flange Squeal]

Some new units got yellow front ends even though they didn't need them. Greater Anglia applied them to all units (classes 720/745/755) due to the amount of uncontrolled foot crossings in East Anglia.

The original South Western Railway (SWR) Class 701 computer generated images saw those units also having black fronts, but in reality the units have been given yellow fronts.

(Pictures from SWR website)

 

[Man of Kent]

No London Underground stock has (and never has had) yellow fronts, nor the Sheffield Class 399 tram-trains, both of which operate on NR metals.

 

[Dstock7080]

No London Underground stock has (and never has had) yellow fronts, nor the Sheffield Class 399 tram-trains, both of which operate on NR metals.

LU engineering trains have been painted yellow since the mid-80s

 

[57Tonic]

Going back to Deepgreen's (Post 16) of Mayflower the lower centre headlamp looks bright enough to meet lighting standards.