Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[whhistle]

Railway Herald reports that EMR have confirmed the sets will be Class 800s.

Do the current Class 800s have shorter coaches?

I would have thought a new nose profile and shorter coaches would warrant a new classification.

Perhaps it's been reported wrong, or EMR have backtracked on the nose design change.

 

[Doomotron]

Railway Herald reports that EMR have confirmed the sets will be Class 800s.

Do the current Class 800s have shorter coaches?

I would have thought a new nose profile and shorter coaches would warrant a new classification.

Perhaps it's been reported wrong, or EMR have backtracked on the nose design change.

Considering how much the DFT likes to give minor design changes completely new and wild classifications, I find it hard to believe they'll be 800s:

• New front design
• Maybe the (ugly) new designs that AWC are getting
• Shorter coaches
• More engines/more powerful engines

 

[Speed43125]

Considering how much the DFT likes to give minor design changes completely new and wild classifications, I find it hard to believe they'll be 800s:

• New front design
• Maybe the (ugly) new designs that AWC are getting
• Shorter coaches
• More engines/more powerful engines

Different coach length warrants a new class, even in the days of BR MUs with different carriage lengths would never be numbered together.

 

[Domh245]

Reported as "according to an EMR spokesman". I would be amazed if they were 800s, after all the 802s and 800s are near enough identical from a physical point of view yet have different numbers, so for a shorter train with a reported completely different formation to get lumped as an 800 would be crazy.

 

[PG]

Reported as "according to an EMR spokesman". I would be amazed if they were 800s, after all the 802s and 800s are near enough identical from a physical point of view yet have different numbers, so for a shorter train with a reported completely different formation to get lumped as an 800 would be crazy.

My bolding above - well they aren't nicknamed DaFt for nothing...

 

[samuelmorris]

More to the point, the 800 is primarily to designate the DfT-specified trains. If they do reuse an existing class number (which they shouldn't, but then TOPS classes defy all logic) then it ought to be 802.

 

[D365]

Link to the Railway Herald article here for those interested.

East Midlands Railway has confirmed that its new bi-mode trains from Hitachi will be designated Class 800.

Rumours suggesting that the fleet would receive a previously unused class identity, potentially Class 804, because of their shorter 24-metre vehicles, are inaccurate according to an EMR spokesman. The fleet is due to enter service from 2022.

The while the current HST fleet will be updated, using powercars and coaching stock made redundant by LNER, the Mk3s will only last until December this year. From the December timetable change, the introduction of the Class 360s on St Pancras to Corby workings, along with the start of Class 180 operations from the same date, will allow EMR to remove the nine HST sets from service.

 

[greatvoyager]

Reported as "according to an EMR spokesman". I would be amazed if they were 800s, after all the 802s and 800s are near enough identical from a physical point of view yet have different numbers, so for a shorter train with a reported completely different formation to get lumped as an 800 would be crazy.

Agreed, 802s have only a few changes to 800s, yet are a different class. The EMR version is even more of a radical change, so surely needs a different classification.

 

[greatvoyager]

More to the point, the 800 is primarily to designate the DfT-specified trains. If they do reuse an existing class number (which they shouldn't, but then TOPS classes defy all logic) then it ought to be 802.

That was my understanding too.

 

[323217]

I've spoken to a colleague over at East Midlands who said that that they're definitely not 804s - make of that what you will!

 

[Snow1964]

I wonder if DfT means 800 series rather than 800 (absolute)
effectively using generic name for all variants

The technical differences warrant different class (and sub class) numbers,

 

[bastien]

It'll probably be class 888 or something daft like that.

 

[squizzler]

By sheer coincidence the word azuma also has a meaning in Greek; it's the neuter plural of the adjective "azumos", meaning unfermented or unleavened (from a-zume, without yeast). In the neuter plural it's used by Mark 14, 1, to mean the Days of Unleavened Bread before the Passover (20-26 April last year).

Cue comments about unleavened chair cushions...

 

[Meerkat]

808 (State)

 

[Doomotron]

Maybe 810 as the new ones are significantly different to the 80x that have already been built?

I highly doubt that they'll be 800s, even if Johnny Spokesperson says they will be.

 

[anamyd]

I noticed on Wikipedia that both the 804 article and the EMR article are like "804 but will be 800" (using that fishy-sounding source) which suggests that the editors are complying with "verifiability not truth" (although the former is questionable) but know that they won't really be "800s".

Seeing as:

800 - Intercity Express Programme bi-mode
801 - Intercity Express Programme EMU
802 - "conventionally procured" bi-mode
803 - "conventionally procured" EMU (though not fully confirmed)

...804 does seem logical with the different carriage lengths (the "facelift" may even count)
then 805 would be used for an EMU version of the 804 (if it even is the 804 )

I've noticed 802s sometimes incorrectly being referred to as "800s" ("800s" seems to be a "catch-all" misnomer for the 80x AT300s)

 

[D365]

OT but the decision to classify the Class 397s under the 39x range was strange in itself...

 

[anamyd]

OT but the decision to classify the Class 397s under the 39x range was strange in itself...

even more OT - 398s/399s...

 

[Energy]

OT but the decision to classify the Class 397s under the 39x range was strange in itself...

I would say it makes sense, its a high speed intercity style emu, like the 390 and 395 which are in the 39x range. Although 399 is an odd choice.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would say it makes sense, its a high speed intercity style emu, like the 390 and 395 which are in the 39x range. Although 399 is an odd choice.

The reason people are saying that it doesn’t seem to make sense is because the changed railway group standard had already been published before the CAF trains for TPE were ordered, and it clearly places such stock, ie any 125 mph fixed formation trains, whether EMU or DMU, in the 800-899 range.

 

[Energy]

The reason people are saying that it doesn’t seem to make sense is because the changed railway group standard had already been published before the CAF trains for TPE were ordered, and it clearly places such stock, ie any 125 mph fixed formation trains, whether EMU or DMU, in the 800-899 range.

ahh, makes sense

 

[Doomotron]

The reason people are saying that it doesn’t seem to make sense is because the changed railway group standard had already been published before the CAF trains for TPE were ordered, and it clearly places such stock, ie any 125 mph fixed formation trains, whether EMU or DMU, in the 800-899 range.

However it isn't always taken notice of, like the 331s and 345s (should be 7xx) and the 195s (should be 6xx).

 

[swt_passenger]

However it isn't always taken notice of, like the 331s and 345s (should be 7xx) and the 195s (should be 6xx).

I disagree. The standard doesn’t actually prevent use of spare 3xx or 4xx class numbers. But we’re going off-topic now...

 

[whhistle]

There's been a suggestion internally that the new Hitachi trains will be very modern and like nothing seen in the UK so far.

No yellow front.

Champagne colour scheme inside (I guess this is the creamy colour already seen in the brand) with potentially brown leather stitched seating.

 

[Laketop]

Not sure if this image has been released earlier, but it shows what looks to be a couple of changes versus previously released imagery.

These include a silver and not golden cone, the decals on the side are also different compared to their previous imagery, the top light is more horizontal than circular and the door is more flush, the cone is more pointed and this picture now shows digital cut-outs for carriage screens.

Source: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/east...ent-open-evening-tickets-90617478317?ref=estw

 

[Meerkat]

I think that cone is the same gold as the door.
What is that sticking out next to the light - is that a lamp iron?!
They need to have a word with the PW bods about the ballast depth...

 

[rdlover777]

What is that sticking out next to the light - is that a lamp iron?!

Not too surprising, 395s have lamp irons, it just for if its dragged by a loco. I've seen the SERefurbed 375s with a electric tail lamp on the lampiron when dragged to Ramsgate by ROG's 37

 

[NewSt]

Not sure if this image has been released earlier, but it shows what looks to be a couple of changes versus previously released imagery.

These include a silver and not golden cone, the decals on the side are also different compared to their previous imagery, the top light is more horizontal than circular and the door is more flush, the cone is more pointed and this picture now shows digital cut-outs for carriage screens.

Source: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/east...ent-open-evening-tickets-90617478317?ref=estw

Love the silver nose cone!

 

[Domh245]

It might just be my eyes, but those look a lot more like plug doors than the usual sliding affairs.

 

[Roast Veg]

Artists impression aside, it might make sense for these to have plug doors - it might reduce the size of door machinery where space is at a bit of a premium on the shorter coach length.