Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Discuss223]

And it's showing. In the last few weeks I've had exactly 2 Meridians with all engines running, and one 5 car came off Etches and entered sevice with 2 engines isolated. Performance is shocking currently.

It's surprising, they were always so reliable. Their cousins, the Voyager fleet works similarly hard and has no issues. Etches Park depot was designed with the 222s in mind and the fleet becomes a "closed" fleet every night, with no units stabled at stations or in sidings, I believe*. It's a shame to see a good fleet of trains being run down.

 

[222001]

It's surprising, they were always so reliable. Their cousins, the Voyager fleet works similarly hard and has no issues. Etches Park depot was designed with the 222s in mind and the fleet becomes a "closed" fleet every night, with no units stabled at stations or in sidings, I believe*. It's a shame to see a good fleet of trains being run down.

I noticed a marked decline in reliability after Hitachi took over the maintenance in April

 

[PG]

I noticed a marked decline in reliability after Hitachi took over the maintenance in April

A cynic (who? me!) might surmise that its all part of a plan to show how good the new 810s are, once they eventually enter service...

 

[LowLevel]

Ultimately the 222s are years after the point they should have received heavy mid life attention, the depot is full and struggling to keep on top of demand with running repairs and so on. It was the plan to sweat the assets as it were for a shortish period until the 810s were ready, it's now been years and who knows when they will actually enter traffic.

With hindsight the East Midlands "Blue" HSTs which received a decent overhaul not long before they were stood down should never have been withdrawn at the point they were, but we are where we are and I think that point has been done to death.

 

[Discuss223]

Ultimately the 222s are years after the point they should have received heavy mid life attention, the depot is full and struggling to keep on top of demand with running repairs and so on. It was the plan to sweat the assets as it were for a shortish period until the 810s were ready, it's now been years and who knows when they will actually enter traffic.

With hindsight the East Midlands "Blue" HSTs which received a decent overhaul not long before they were stood down should never have been withdrawn at the point they were, but we are where we are and I think that point has been done to death.

I don't know who made the decision but it was rather short-sighted to get rid of the Class 180s when the Auroras were still at such an infantile production stage.

 

[Trainman40083]

I don't know who made the decision but it was rather short-sighted to get rid of the Class 180s when the Auroras were still at such an infantile production stage.

Well, it was the DfT..

 

[Aspen90]

They’re really short of staff at Etches too, people leave and they’re not being replaced and it’s hitting maintenance really hard. They just haven’t got the numbers to keep them up to standard.

 

[1D54]

So how bad do things get until something is done or more importantly what will be done? Is there anywhere else that even a minimal amount of them can be sent for maintenance whatever the cost because large amounts of cancellations on the MML surely isn't an option.

 

[43066]

Ultimately the 222s are years after the point they should have received heavy mid life attention, the depot is full and struggling to keep on top of demand with running repairs and so on. It was the plan to sweat the assets as it were for a shortish period until the 810s were ready, it's now been years and who knows when they will actually enter traffic.

With hindsight the East Midlands "Blue" HSTs which received a decent overhaul not long before they were stood down should never have been withdrawn at the point they were, but we are where we are and I think that point has been done to death.

Agreed, although I had one with all five engines running earlier (the very purple one in @222001’s profile pic) .

They are reliable enough that, although the interiors are shabby, and many are running around with engines isolated etc., it doesn’t actually translate to cancelled trains.

 

[baz962]

It's surprising, they were always so reliable. Their cousins, the Voyager fleet works similarly hard and has no issues. Etches Park depot was designed with the 222s in mind and the fleet becomes a "closed" fleet every night, with no units stabled at stations or in sidings, I believe*. It's a shame to see a good fleet of trains being run down.

Some are stabled at st Pancras and some at Cricklewood so a fair few at station and sidings. Cricklewood is a depot for Thameslink but only a sidings for EMR.

 

[Trainman40083]

So how bad do things get until something is done or more importantly what will be done? Is there anywhere else that even a minimal amount of them can be sent for maintenance whatever the cost because large amounts of cancellations on the MML surely isn't an option.

They certainly used to send units to Central Rivers . But with the change in maintainer, I guess that no longer happens.

Agreed, although I had one with all five engines running earlier (the very purple one in @222001’s profile pic) .

They are reliable enough that, although the interiors are shabby, and many are running around with engines isolated etc., it doesn’t actually translate to cancelled trains.

Ah, aubergine 222104

 

[43066]

the fleet becomes a "closed" fleet every night, with no units stabled at stations or in sidings, I believe*.

Not the case. A couple at St P overnight and some at Cricklewood. They are prepped and attended to by roving fitters which helps.

Ah, aubergine 222104

The purple ding-ah-ling is how some colleagues refer to it. The pride of the fleet .

 

[Trainman40083]

Not the case. A couple at St P overnight and some at Cricklewood. They are prepped and attended to by roving fitters which helps.



The purple ding-ah-ling is how some colleagues refer to it. The pride of the fleet .

Always gets noticed.. Always looks clean.

 

[Spartacus]

Incidentally just noticed there's what I assume is an 810 out today, 5Q41/5Q42.

 

[Wyrleybart]

It's surprising, they were always so reliable. Their cousins, the Voyager fleet works similarly hard and has no issues. Etches Park depot was designed with the 222s in mind and the fleet becomes a "closed" fleet every night, with no units stabled at stations or in sidings, I believe*. It's a shame to see a good fleet of trains being run down.

I have to dispute that. The great thing about voyagers is their multiple redundancy of equipment but there is only so much that can be done. The oldest voyagers are 25 years old and haven't had anything like a traditional works overhaul.

 

[Otis]

Incidentally just noticed there's what I assume is an 810 out today, 5Q41/5Q42.

Yes, it's 810004

 

[Aspen90]

So how bad do things get until something is done or more importantly what will be done? Is there anywhere else that even a minimal amount of them can be sent for maintenance whatever the cost because large amounts of cancellations on the MML surely isn't an option.

Honestly, nobody seems bothered. Alstom couldn’t care less as they didn’t get the new trains contract, Hitachi aren’t fussed as the relationship with Alstom for spares, assistance etc is ‘difficult’ which I heard from the horses mouth, and the staff numbers are nowhere near where they should be. EMR don’t seem to be doing anything. As above, the amount with engines isolated is ridiculous. It’s a treat now to get in and see one with all 5 running. I’ve not had a 10 car with all 10 running in months. Just hope it’s not the same with the 810’s…

If all else fails throw out:

‘Due to more trains than usual needing maintenance at the same time’ notice. Get the DfT in there and kick some backsides in to gear!

 

[PG]

Get the DfT in there and kick some backsides in to gear!

You'll have to excuse me if I don't share your faith in the DfTs ability to do anything - except maybe to make a bad job worse!

 

[Discuss223]

Perhaps someone who is privy to such information should make it clear. What parts of the Class 810 are the same as other IET (Hitachi Intercity Express Train) variants and what's new?

We know so far that the wiring is different.

The body shell design is a shorter length than other IETs.

The seating is different to most other IETs.

There have been issues in the testing stage with a number of components. These are:- Brakes - are they different to other IETs? Coupling - Is it a wiring, software or actual coupler issue?

Thanks in advance to anyone who provides such information.

 

[800001]

Perhaps someone who is privy to such information should make it clear. What parts of the Class 810 are the same as other IET (Hitachi Intercity Express Train) variants and what's new?

We know so far that the wiring is different.

The body shell design is a shorter length than other IETs.

The seating is different to most other IETs.

There have been issues in the testing stage with a number of components. These are:- Brakes - are they different to other IETs? Coupling - Is it a wiring, software or actual coupler issue?

Thanks in advance to anyone who provides such information.

They also have under floor heating which is a first for the 8Xx fleet.

 

[43066]

From a (very) well informed source, driver training is now expected to commence in June/July, with potentially a November entry into passenger service. It’ll be a few diagrams only initially, as you’d expect.

No guarantees it won’t slip further, but that’s what’s being worked towards at the moment.

 

[1D54]

From an informed source, driver training is now expected to commence in June/July, with potentially a November entry into passenger service, on a few diagrams only initially, as you’d expect.

Wish the word 'potentially' wasn't in the above but that is great news.

 

[43066]

Wish the word 'potentially' wasn't in the above but that is great news.

Indeed mate. I’ve edited my last post to qualify still further, but potentially good news!

 

[tram21]

From a (very) well informed source, driver training is now expected to commence in June/July, with potentially a November entry into passenger service. It’ll be a few diagrams only initially, as you’d expect.

No guarantees it won’t slip further, but that’s what’s being worked towards at the moment.

That's good news at last. Of course we'll have to wait and see, but that's what I was hoping for so I'm glad they are getting closer...

 

[Discuss223]

Interesting that the alleged entry in to service is in November and not the December timetable change.

9 months is quite a short time to get all of the interiors fitted and on-board crew, platform staff and RG catering agents trained.

As 43066 said, potentially, it could well slip further behind schedule.

 

[800001]

Interesting that the alleged entry in to service is in November and not the December timetable change.

9 months is quite a short time to get all of the interiors fitted and on-board crew, platform staff and RG catering agents trained.

As 43066 said, potentially, it could well slip further behind schedule.

from my very reliable source, the handover of first unit to EMR in June has slipped again, due to the multitude of issues that keep being discovered with the unit, with no new estimation of when they will receive a unit.

10 car mainline testing was due to of been completed By January……..it hasn’t even started, and very very little has happened at Old Dalby.

 

[DDB]

Interesting that the alleged entry in to service is in November and not the December timetable change.

9 months is quite a short time to get all of the interiors fitted and on-board crew, platform staff and RG catering agents trained.

As 43066 said, potentially, it could well slip further behind schedule.

I assume you don’t need ALL of any grade trained or all the trains finished to start introducing them and you probably learn a few more things when you start using them in passenger service.

 

[800001]

Interesting that the alleged entry in to service is in November and not the December timetable change.

9 months is quite a short time to get all of the interiors fitted and on-board crew, platform staff and RG catering agents trained.

As 43066 said, potentially, it could well slip further behind schedule.

Interiors fitted?
They are fitted before they leave Newton Aycliffe. (Except 810001 which is a shell).

Units up to 810013 are complete at Aycliffe and undergoing testing.

 

[43066]

from my very reliable source, the handover of first unit to EMR in June has slipped again, due to the multitude of issues that keep being discovered with the unit, with no new estimation of when they will receive a unit.

June/July envisaged for commencement of “training the trainers”, circulated internally. You’re saying that’s slipped further?

I assume you don’t need ALL of any grade trained or all the trains finished to start introducing them and you probably learn a few more things when you start using them in passenger service.

Indeed, and that’s precisely what’s envisaged. Trainers trained, then the stock will eventually be introduced on a couple of diagrams.

 

[800001]

June/July envisaged for commencement of “training the trainers”, circulated internally. You’re saying that’s slipped further?



Indeed, and that’s precisely what’s envisaged. Trainers trained, then the stock will eventually be introduced on a couple of diagrams.

Only going by what I’ve been told from my source, which was the date they had been told for handover (June), would not happen, but as we all know, many people say different things, or have not even been updated with the latest news.

And am sure we can both agree, I don’t think any milestone on this project has been adhered to, and until I see a unit handed to EMR, I won’t actually believe any dates quoted.