Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[trainswitheddy]

Keeping the 180s was, IMO, wishful thinking. Even if they were retained at a peppercorn lease, it would have been a half-arsed solution to the problem.

Why couldn't they of kept a microfleet of 222s instead? I'm obviously no fleet manager and don't know how leases work but surely having a more well-known, reliable fleet is better than training on a new fleet of well-known unreliable trains?

 

[Nym]

Depot space would proberbly be lacking to keep either of them on as an extra fleet. Because the amazing idea was done to not build the 810s their own depot in Chaddesden so that Etches could focus on Turbostars

 

[Skymonster]

Etches Park is indeed very space constrained, but there might be a very large rail-connected “depot” going begging in Derby fairly soon!! Seriously though, it wasn’t up to EMR whether it could have kept the 180s or could keep a few 222s - DfT call the shots on fleet renewals and the current plan is for all the 222s to go off lease to EMR. Whether they end up rotting in a siding (which it could be argued would be a waste if it transpires EMR’s 810 fleet is overstretched) or whether the 222s move on to another operator - north of the border still mooted by some inside EMR - is again not within EMR’s choosing.

 

[QSK19]

Why couldn't they have kept a microfleet of 222s instead? I'm obviously no fleet manager and don't know how leases work but surely having a more well-known, reliable fleet is better than training on a new fleet of well-known unreliable trains?

As well as reasons mentioned above, I highly doubt Eversholt would want to split the 222 fleet unless the lease rate were extremely punitive. It makes no sense to split up the 222s when all 27 could feasibly go elsewhere - serious rumours of all of them going to Scotrail means that they are marketable as a whole.

The other chain of thought would have been not to give EMR the 810s and hence make them keep the 222s - some of the advantages being in the last part of your message. However, it would have been politically unwise to take away promised MML electrification and then say that EMT/EMR isn’t getting new trains.

 

[trainswitheddy]

As well as reasons mentioned above, I highly doubt Eversholt would want to split the 222 fleet unless the lease rate were extremely punitive. It makes no sense to split up the 222s when all 27 could feasibly go elsewhere - serious rumours of all of them going to Scotrail means that they are marketable as a whole.

The other chain of thought would have been not to give EMR the 810s and hence make them keep the 222s - some of the advantages being in the last part of your message. However, it would have been politically unwise to take away promised MML electrification and then say that EMT/EMR isn’t getting new trains.

That makes sense. Thankyou! Hopefully some crowd busting sets can be obtained...especially when LNER is on strike/ECML goes down.

 

[Maddog83]

Semi 810 related. With the wires nearly complete north of Kettering, do we expect to see the return of the DATS train? Which was used extensively for testing the wires between Bedford and Corby not sure if it can be reformed. I'll assume they will have to test the OHLE somehow.

 

[TomH1994]

Not the best but the 810 was hiding behind a 222 this morning. Both were gone by earlier this afternoon.
View attachment 156721

Is it me or does the EMR purple colour look different on the 810 vs 222? Like even in other shots /videos ive seen it looks different

 

[tsyxa]

Is it me or does the EMR purple colour look different on the 810 vs 222? Like even in other shots /videos ive seen it looks different

I assume that’s just due to the difference between vinyl only intended as an interim livery and the actual paint on the 810s, the latter being what it’s supposed to look like

 

[Aspen90]

Bit of an obvious question but if there’s anybody on here from Hitachi or anything to do with Hitachi, what are the real reasons for the delays? We’re not talking a couple of months, it’s years now and ever extending. I’d say 2026 before any real in service running is happening. We’ve spoken about what we know of the 810’s but the factory is screaming out for orders. You’ve got the orders, just make the units! We’ve heard of the first 3 units being in different states of completion - but where are the other 30? Are they dragging their feet to keep work in the hope of further orders so they can bridge the gap? It’s beyond frustrating! They’ll be 3 years late when they enter service (at the minute) and the EMR NRC expires in 2028. If they don’t get it again that’s a lot of purple to sand off!

 

[43066]

Is it me or does the EMR purple colour look different on the 810 vs 222? Like even in other shots /videos ive seen it looks different

They aren’t caked in MML filth like the 222s. Give it time .

The stagecoach livery sometimes shows through the vinyls on some of the 222s - to be fair they do seem to patch that up when it occurs.

 

[swt_passenger]

Semi 810 related. With the wires nearly complete north of Kettering, do we expect to see the return of the DATS train? Which was used extensively for testing the wires between Bedford and Corby not sure if it can be reformed. I'll assume they will have to test the OHLE somehow.

You’ll probably get a better answer asking about OHLE testing in the infrastructure thread:

MML Electrification: progress updates

There's an article about NR's plans in Rail this week (#765 p54). It seems that work on site will start in April 2015, the contractor being Carillion Powerlines. They will be using road-rail vehicles for the work, not a high-output system. The 125mph design isn't explicitly named but seems...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[AM9]

Bit of an obvious question but if there’s anybody on here from Hitachi or anything to do with Hitachi, what are the real reasons for the delays? We’re not talking a couple of months, it’s years now and ever extending. I’d say 2026 before any real in service running is happening. We’ve spoken about what we know of the 810’s but the factory is screaming out for orders. You’ve got the orders, just make the units! We’ve heard of the first 3 units being in different states of completion - but where are the other 30? Are they dragging their feet to keep work in the hope of further orders so they can bridge the gap? It’s beyond frustrating! They’ll be 3 years late when they enter service (at the minute) and the EMR NRC expires in 2028. If they don’t get it again that’s a lot of purple to sand off!

Your words above like: "what are the real reasons for the delays?", "Are they dragging their feet ..." etc. don't help. I doubt you will get an answer to a question framed the way you have. Even if Hitachi management were here, they'll not consider social media as a suitable platform, even just to dismiss such slanted questions. The purchaser is the only one that they will listen to.

 

[Skymonster]

Realtime Trains | 5Q48 1800 Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby | 22/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q48 1800 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby on 22/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

810001 back to Old Dalby tomorrow??

 

[Aspen90]

Your words above like: "what are the real reasons for the delays?", "Are they dragging their feet ..." etc. don't help. I doubt you will get an answer to a question framed the way you have. Even if Hitachi management were here, they'll not consider social media as a suitable platform, even just to dismiss such slanted questions. The purchaser is the only one that they will listen

Wasn’t directing it to management - anybody at all really. I’ll stay silent and wait like everybody else then. Just thought it was a good chance to discuss.

 

[DaveyJones]

Bit of an obvious question but if there’s anybody on here from Hitachi or anything to do with Hitachi, what are the real reasons for the delays? We’re not talking a couple of months, it’s years now and ever extending. I’d say 2026 before any real in service running is happening. We’ve spoken about what we know of the 810’s but the factory is screaming out for orders. You’ve got the orders, just make the units! We’ve heard of the first 3 units being in different states of completion - but where are the other 30? Are they dragging their feet to keep work in the hope of further orders so they can bridge the gap? It’s beyond frustrating! They’ll be 3 years late when they enter service (at the minute) and the EMR NRC expires in 2028. If they don’t get it again that’s a lot of purple to sand off!

Covid? A complete re-design to get the AT300 platform into a 23m design? New Engines? New Software?

 

[800001]

Realtime Trains | 5Q48 1800 Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby | 22/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q48 1800 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby on 22/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

810001 back to Old Dalby tomorrow??

Yes, correct.

Bit of an obvious question but if there’s anybody on here from Hitachi or anything to do with Hitachi, what are the real reasons for the delays? We’re not talking a couple of months, it’s years now and ever extending. I’d say 2026 before any real in service running is happening. We’ve spoken about what we know of the 810’s but the factory is screaming out for orders. You’ve got the orders, just make the units! We’ve heard of the first 3 units being in different states of completion - but where are the other 30? Are they dragging their feet to keep work in the hope of further orders so they can bridge the gap? It’s beyond frustrating! They’ll be 3 years late when they enter service (at the minute) and the EMR NRC expires in 2028. If they don’t get it again that’s a lot of purple to sand off!

Over half the units are in production or complete

Units up to 810005 have been seen built, and interior fitted.

However, other than 810001, no more have ventured onto mainline testing.

Regards factory ‘dragging there feet’, they are now down to one shift per day instead of 2, so do not know how that works in regards em current production levels.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Semi 810 related. With the wires nearly complete north of Kettering, do we expect to see the return of the DATS train? Which was used extensively for testing the wires between Bedford and Corby not sure if it can be reformed. I'll assume they will have to test the OHLE somehow.

I think 91117 might be involved.

 

[Aspen90]

Yes, correct.


Over half the units are in production or complete

Units up to 810005 have been seen built, and interior fitted.

However, other than 810001, no more have ventured onto mainline testing.

Regards factory ‘dragging there feet’, they are now down to one shift per day instead of 2, so do not know how that works in regards em current production levels.

Thank you very much for the update, appreciate it!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Covid? A complete re-design to get the AT300 platform into a 23m design? New Engines? New Software?

Other than Covid disruption the rest of it was a known requirement before the order was signed so at best a years delay is being generous. Mind you as we know this isn't isolated with delays across multiple stock types across the UK. So it ought to be a subject of a Transport Select Committee enquiry but its not and neither do the railway press seem to want to go digging thus its left to contributors across this forum to try and second guess whats happening

 

[The_Train]

Units up to 810005 have been seen built, and interior fitted.

Does that include 005?

 

[800001]

Does that include 005?

Yes, otherwise I would of said up to 004.

 

[The_Train]

Yes, otherwise I would of said up to 004.

Thanks for the sarcasm, it was definitely warranted
I think you will find that in most cases people will say "up to and including" when offering such detail where numerals are concerned.

Thanks for the info though, and good luck trying to find those social and communication skills - you'll find some eventually!

 

[AM9]

Thanks for the sarcasm, it was definitely warranted
I think you will find that in most cases people will say "up to and including" when offering such detail where numerals are concerned.

Thanks for the info though, and good luck trying to find those social and communication skills - you'll find some eventually!

'Up to 5 means 1 - 5 in every situation that I've ever heard it, still - maybe your communications with others have been limited to the few that think 'up to 5' means stop at 4.

 

[800001]

Thanks for the sarcasm, it was definitely warranted
I think you will find that in most cases people will say "up to and including" when offering such detail where numerals are concerned.

Thanks for the info though, and good luck trying to find those social and communication skills - you'll find some eventually!

Don’t how up to 005 could be any clearer, as I said if had been up to 004 I would have said that.
Stating that all my life has never brought up any any issue and everyone has always known exactly what is meant.

 

[The_Train]

Jesus H Christ, it was a genuine question that really didn't need the level of sarcasm that was thrown back at me.

The answer was simply "yes, that does include 005" but that's far too easy for people in this hobby

 

[Spire Sam]

This possibly isn't the correct thread but what's the best way to keep an eye on where 810001 is or any other 810s are. Is it just looking on RTT if you have an idea where it/they might be or is there a better way?

 

[800001]

This possibly isn't the correct thread but what's the best way to keep an eye on where 810001 is or any other 810s are. Is it just looking on RTT if you have an idea where it/they might be or is there a better way?

It moved from Etches Park back to Old Dalby early this evening. All other 810s remain at Hitachi Merchant Park.

Path included below from real time trains

Realtime Trains | 5Q48 1800 Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby | 22/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q48 1800 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby on 22/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[PG]

Mind you as we know this isn't isolated with delays across multiple stock types across the UK. So it ought to be a subject of a Transport Select Committee enquiry

I remain unconvinced that having this looked at by a TSC would do anything either in this particular case or for any subsequent rolling stock orders.

 

[al2000]

Rubbish phone photo taken late this afternoon.

 

[Spire Sam]

It moved from Etches Park back to Old Dalby early this evening. All other 810s remain at Hitachi Merchant Park.

Path included below from real time trains

Realtime Trains | 5Q48 1800 Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby | 22/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q48 1800 departure from Etches Park Sdgs to Old Dalby on 22/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks , In general though is there a specific way you keep track or is it just a case of knowing where it is currently and checking if it's moving on a given day?