Class 810 (was originally class 804) for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
20,581
Location
Nottingham
The 802's reach 119mph with appx 8.5hp/t - so an 810 with close to 11hp/t should do more than that.
What is interesting here is how HST's and Class 802's with similar power to weight ratios differ in performance. The 802's start off the line much faster in diesel mode, but peter out more quickly - reaching around 119mph on level track - whereas HST's still motor on to 125mph and beyond. Back in the early days - HST speeds around 133 to 136mph were commonly recorded before speed limiters were fitted.
I wonder whether the Class 800/802's seemingly inferior 'ploughed field' roof aerodynamics are a factor here?
To do with the 802 having more of its weight on powered axles?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
11,116
Location
Glasgow
The 802's reach 119mph with appx 8.5hp/t - so an 810 with close to 11hp/t should do more than that.
What is interesting here is how HST's and Class 802's with similar power to weight ratios differ in performance. The 802's start off the line much faster in diesel mode, but peter out more quickly - reaching around 119mph on level track - whereas HST's still motor on to 125mph and beyond. Back in the early days - HST speeds around 133 to 136mph were commonly recorded before speed limiters were fitted.
I wonder whether the Class 800/802's seemingly inferior 'ploughed field' roof aerodynamics are a factor here?
Isn't it to do with the way the power ramps back at speeds? While HSTs simply have natural motor current drop off.
 

Railperf

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
2,288
Isn't it to do with the way the power ramps back at speeds? While HSTs simply have natural motor current drop off.
Possibly. It really depends to what poercentage of power is being demanded at those higher speeds. Figures of around 85% have been banded around.
So assuming the maximum electrical power for traction is around 80 to 85% of the maximum rated diesel output, then we are talking about around 85% of that figure. I'll ask our technical guru.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
11,116
Location
Glasgow
Possibly. It really depends to what poercentage of power is being demanded at those higher speeds. Figures of around 85% have been banded around.
So assuming the maximum electrical power for traction is around 80 to 85% of the maximum rated diesel output, then we are talking about around 85% of that figure. I'll ask our technical guru.
I'd certainly be interested to know
 

Prestige15

Member
Joined
6 Aug 2016
Messages
351
Location
Warrington
For those who may not know reguarding about the locations of the engines, pantograph etc and interior.

According to Modern Railway (870) It was stated that each unit will have two pantograph at each end of the driving vehicle, Diesel engines on first, second, fourth and fifth vehicle, Transformer at the centre and traction motors on the second and forth vehicle.

For the interior 3 full standard class, one roughly half and half and obviosly one first with a galley kitchen which will be the same size as TPE/Hull Trains 's galley. There will be NO BUFFET on these units. Each will have 301 seats (254 standerd and 47 first).
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
6,336
For those who may not know reguarding about the locations of the engines, pantograph etc and interior.

According to Modern Railway (870) It was stated that each unit will have two pantograph at each end of the driving vehicle, Diesel engines on first, second, fourth and fifth vehicle, Transformer at the centre and traction motors on the second and forth vehicle.

For the interior 3 full standard class, one roughly half and half and obviosly one first with a galley kitchen which will be the same size as TPE/Hull Trains 's galley. There will be NO BUFFET on these units. Each will have 301 seats (254 standerd and 47 first).
MR article already covered on pages 29 & 30 of this thread.

Possibly. It really depends to what percentage of power is being demanded at those higher speeds. Figures of around 85% have been banded around.
So assuming the maximum electrical power for traction is around 80 to 85% of the maximum rated diesel output, then we are talking about around 85% of that figure. I'll ask our technical guru.
I'd go for 90% unless the aux loads are all at maxed out at the same time (unlikely) when that would drop a bit.
 
Last edited:

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
24,596

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
7,519
Location
nowhere
First comment “it looks very different...” But isn’t the reality that they’ll “look” almost identical except for length, and livery?

Depends how much detail you go into, but nope - the window between the door and the vehicle end isn't seen on any of the other 80x, ditto the irregular windows, and the nose section is looking to be pretty different to the other 80x too. That picture does suggest that the later renders (with the slightly platypus looking nose IMO) are fairly accurate though
 

greatvoyager

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2019
Messages
2,070
Location
Exeter
Depends how much detail you go into, but nope - the window between the door and the vehicle end isn't seen on any of the other 80x, ditto the irregular windows, and the nose section is looking to be pretty different to the other 80x too. That picture does suggest that the later renders (with the slightly platypus looking nose IMO) are fairly accurate though
The renders are certainly looking better than the generic one when the order was first announced.
 

Top