Cleanliness of Northern line trains

[H&I]

The cleanliness of the Northern line trains seems worse than that of trains on other London Underground lines. Does the Northern line have automated train washes, and if so, how often is the exterior of Northern line trains cleaned? How often is the interior cleaned? Do the seat moquettes get vacuumed?

 

[MatthewRead]

The cleanliness of the Northern line trains seems worse than that of trains on other London Underground lines. Does the Northern line have automated train washes, and if so, how often is the exterior of Northern line trains cleaned? How often is the interior cleaned? Do the seat moquettes get vacuumed?

The problem is finance it costs to keep these trains clean by changing the seats etc and Transport For London are spending their money on upgrading other lines such as the Central and Piccadilly lines.

 

[philthetube]

Assuming they are working there are 2 washes at Morden, one on each side of the depot, Trains are normally washed when entering service at Morden so pretty frequently.

 

[Recessio]

I've noticed since about 2020 the Northern line trains are starting to look a bit rougher in places than they used to. Worn seats, scuffed plastic surfaces, dirty interiors, loose bits of trim (rubber where grab poles meet plastic panels etc). I wonder if the maintenance has been cut back to focus more on mechanicals rather than cleanliness?

 

[setdown]

I imagine it's similar to the Central line. London Underground can't claim that all the recent 1992 failures are unexpectedly higher or a surprise. It's clear to anyone who travels on them that LU spent no money on them, inside they're a disgrace. And now the chickens have come home to roost.

Watch out for a bunch of 1995 stock failures in a year's time.

 

[Mikey C]

I've noticed since about 2020 the Northern line trains are starting to look a bit rougher in places than they used to. Worn seats, scuffed plastic surfaces, dirty interiors, loose bits of trim (rubber where grab poles meet plastic panels etc). I wonder if the maintenance has been cut back to focus more on mechanicals rather than cleanliness?

Agreed, they're definitely looking more neglected than before, both on the inside and outside.

 

[Russel]

Northern Line trains have been looking terrible externally for 12 months.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I do agree, as a frequent traveller on the 1995TS, I have noticed general floor cleanliness being an issue especially. However the units have been extremely intensely worked with the SeTrac ATO essentially from their last interior refurbishment in 2013. Ten years without any interior refreshments in hard going for any train, let alone Tube Rolling Stock!. On the other hand, said units have always suffered from interior aliments in some shape or another from pretty much their introduction, remember the bobbly flooring and the loosely hanging car end seals prior to their 2013 refurbishment. However what was diabolical, was the exterior of the units (Pre Referb) large quantities of graffiti and just general dust build up. It makes me wonder that their PFI contract with Alstom was possibly less glamorous than anticipated and still continues. Meanwhile the 1996TS was financed by Alstom as "Cheapest First Cost" which essentially meant that once they all entered service, Alstom would be out of the picture in at least a less exaggerated manor. It is clear to see that theirs was favourable, as although the units have witnessed some degree of interior wear and tear, it has been noting compared to their sisters on the Northern!

 

[Recessio]

I do agree, as a frequent traveller on the 1995TS, I have noticed general floor cleanliness being an issue especially. However the units have been extremely intensely worked with the SeTrac ATO essentially from their last interior refurbishment in 2013. Ten years without any interior refreshments in hard going for any train, let alone Tube Rolling Stock!. On the other hand, said units have always suffered from interior aliments in some shape or another from pretty much their introduction, remember the bobbly flooring and the loosely hanging car end seals prior to their 2013 refurbishment. However what was diabolical, was the exterior of the units (Pre Referb) large quantities of graffiti and just general dust build up. It makes me wonder that their PFI contract with Alstom was possibly less glamorous than anticipated and still continues. Meanwhile the 1996TS was financed by Alstom as "Cheapest First Cost" which essentially meant that once they all entered service, Alstom would be out of the picture in at least a less exaggerated manor. It is clear to see that theirs was favourable, as although the units have witnessed some degree of interior wear and tear, it has been noting compared to their sisters on the Northern!

I wonder if there are differences in how the units are treated due to the different areas and clientele that they surve. Although both serve parts of the West End and financial districts, the Jubilee is mostly known for serving Docklands (including the O2 admittedly) whereas the Northern carries more tourists, linking many of the major rail termini and a lot of the southern suburbs traffic.

 

[H&I]

Ten years without any interior refreshments in hard going for any train, let alone Tube Rolling Stock

I think it has more to do with day-to-day cleaning and upkeep than refurbishments. The Metro-Cammell units on the Hong Kong MTR’s Urban Lines network were refurbished between 1998 and 2001, having entered service between 1977 and 1986, and they still look completely new and spotlessly clean to this day, in their twilight years. There are barely any scuff marks inside. These trains have also been just as intensively worked under the SACEM system with ATO.

On the other hand, the Northern line 1995 Stock fleet was refurbished between 2013 and 2015, yet the interior already looks very worn and dirty.

 

[bramling]

I do agree, as a frequent traveller on the 1995TS, I have noticed general floor cleanliness being an issue especially. However the units have been extremely intensely worked with the SeTrac ATO essentially from their last interior refurbishment in 2013. Ten years without any interior refreshments in hard going for any train, let alone Tube Rolling Stock!. On the other hand, said units have always suffered from interior aliments in some shape or another from pretty much their introduction, remember the bobbly flooring and the loosely hanging car end seals prior to their 2013 refurbishment. However what was diabolical, was the exterior of the units (Pre Referb) large quantities of graffiti and just general dust build up. It makes me wonder that their PFI contract with Alstom was possibly less glamorous than anticipated and still continues. Meanwhile the 1996TS was financed by Alstom as "Cheapest First Cost" which essentially meant that once they all entered service, Alstom would be out of the picture in at least a less exaggerated manor. It is clear to see that theirs was favourable, as although the units have witnessed some degree of interior wear and tear, it has been noting compared to their sisters on the Northern!

Notwithstanding appearances, to be fair the Alstom contract seems to work reasonably well from a fleet reliability point of view. It’s quite noticeable how much better maintained the Northern fleet is compared to the Jubilee. Both fleets work very hard.

 

[Recessio]

How are the units holding up mechanically? I understand they tended to be some of the more reliable stock on LU, but are they showing their age mechanically as well, or just visually?

 

[Mikey C]

The 95s have to work harder than they did before with the Battersea extension, I wonder if this is taking a toll on non essential maintenance?

 

[Dstock7080]

The 95s have to work harder than they did before with the Battersea extension, I wonder if this is taking a toll on non essential maintenance?

Just two additional trains in peak periods and one less train off-peak since before Battersea

 

[Bigvernicus]

One issue is all trains are cleaned at Morden both intrenally and externally, one problem is the train is washed on entry to service with the train wash but is still wet when it reaches the tunnels and dust will stick to the wet, causing trains to become dirty more quickly, the Victoria line suffers with this as well, in particular when trains run a lot in dusty tunnels, The Jubilee line tunnels are newer and majority a larger size so trains dont get as dirty.
Victoria line trains can be very dirty, as well if the train wash isn't used for a few days, I understand Nortrhern line trains are Externall Hand Washed and interior cleaned on a 21 day schedule.

 

[philthetube]

I did ask why trains are washed on the way out of depot and not on the way in, I was told that this was so the wet trains picked up dust from inside the tunnels, I have no idea if this is the actual reason though.

There are no track layout issues with washing trains on the way in.

 

[Daniel]

I did ask why trains are washed on the way out of depot and not on the way in, I was told that this was so the wet trains picked up dust from inside the tunnels, I have no idea if this is the actual reason though.

There are no track layout issues with washing trains on the way in.

I severely doubt that's a reason.

The reality is if you washed trains on the way in you'd have to reduce the available engineering hours, as it's already very tight getting so many trains into Morden at COT via both roads, and would be even slower routing via the wash road.