Comparison of station facilities with motorway services

[py_megapixel]

I would say that the amenities found at large railway stations play a similar role on a long-distance train journey as motorway services do on a long-distance motorway journey. Often the facilities will be quite similar (toilets, small retail stores and take-away food usually run on a franchise basis, seating areas, and possibly a few slot machines or similar) and sometimes you'll even find the same brands (WHSmith is found in many large stations and almost every motorway service area).

In general, where would people prefer to spend time? Station facilities, or motorway services?

Also, both have a reputation for being somewhat overpriced, which leads me to wonder whether comparable products are more expensive on a station or on the motorway. Of course there is the important difference that a passenger dissatisfied with the offerings in a station can generally leave and buy something elsewhere, while at motorway services, that's not generally an option.

 

[Dai Corner]

Also, both have a reputation for being somewhat overpriced, which leads me to wonder whether comparable products are more expensive on a station or on the motorway. Of course there is the important difference that a passenger dissatisfied with the offerings in a station can generally leave and buy something elsewhere, while

Motorways have junctions, often with supermarkets, cafés and other amenities nearby.

I will accept that coach passengers have no choice if their service stops at a motorway service area.

 

[SargeNpton]

Railway station facilities are generally used at the start or end of a journey, whereas motorway facilities are used during a break in the journey. That being the case it's not really a like-for-like comparison.

As rail passengers do not normally have a choice in their departure/destination station they are limited to the facilities that are on offer at those stations. By contrast, motorway uses may decide which services to stop at based on their preference for one or other retailer; or even just on the general ambience at one services compared with that of one 20 miles away.

 

[trebor79]

Motorways have junctions, often with supermarkets, cafés and other amenities nearby.

I will accept that coach passengers have no choice if their service stops at a motorway service area.

Equally, stations are usually close to other amenities. If changing trains at Peterborough, for example, I usually pop to the Waitrose 1 minutes walk away to buy better quality and cheaper food than is available in the station.

 

[185143]

Depends on the station and services really.

You're guaranteed toilets will actually be open in a service station, whatever the time of day or night. And if anything is unavailable, I'd expect it to be on signs on the motorway itself. Also, you know what to expect-bogs, at least one overpriced shop, usually somewhere to get hot food and always somewhere for a hot drink.

Stations, admittedly you have more options outside usually, but toilets often close during the day, and are never available if the station is unstaffed. Retail offerings are rarely more than a vending machine, if you even get that (major stations excepted).

Motorway services are expensive, yes, but the costs of providing them must be high too. I dare say a fair proportion of their users will be parking for free, popping in to use the free toilets, which obviously need cleaning 24/7 too, and then driving on again. (On that note, are MSAs required by law to provide free toilets?) At least at stations, most people will have paid for a ticket, so have indirectly contributed to the upkeep/cleaning ect. Plus parking is usually chargeable too.

 

[mmh]

On that note, are MSAs required by law to provide free toilets?

Yes!

 

[trebor79]

I believe MSAs are also required by law to offer hit food 24/7. They used this to justify the eye watering prices charged in their own brand restaurants/buffets (remember those?) before they realise sit was less hassle to just let units to junk food peddlars.

 

[tomuk]

I believe MSAs are also required by law to offer hit food 24/7. They used this to justify the eye watering prices charged in their own brand restaurants/buffets (remember those?) before they realise sit was less hassle to just let units to junk food peddlars.

I suspect the junk food outlets are just franchised outlets run by the same staff who worked in the own brand restaurant. SSP who run the majority of station outlets whatever the brand was a sister company to Moto and I believe had a later deal with Forte to run their catering outlets.

 

[Basil Jet]

I believe MSAs are also required by law to offer hit food 24/7.

I've never got that impression... I think that in many service stations this would be limited to a microwave and a supply of packaged sausage rolls in the shop

 

[Russel]

For me, motorway services and large rail stations are the same in regards to catering and retail, you can take a pretty accurate guess at what will be on offer, usually over priced junk food from the likes of Burger King, Costa etc followed by a WH Smith selling tat that can be brought elsewhere for half the price.

For rail I'll opt for the Tesco Express / Sainsburys Local the are generally not too far away and for motorway services, I'll look for a supermarket near by, here's a tip for anyone traveling down south on the M5, avoid the Welcome Break at junction 19, carry on around the island and go to the Sainsburys or Aldi in Portishead a mile from the motorway.

 

[Dai Corner]

here's a tip for anyone traveling down south on the M5, avoid the Welcome Break at junction 19, carry on around the island and go to the Sainsburys or Aldi in Portishead a mile from the motorway.

Or carry on to Jn 20 (Clevedon) where there are Tesco, Aldi and Asda and an attractive seafront with several great cafes. I lived in the area so have the local knowledge but I also have a book from the pre-Google Maps and SatNav era listing alternatives to motorway service areas called something like 'Just off the Motorway'.

 

[stuu]

I've never got that impression... I think that in many service stations this would be limited to a microwave and a supply of packaged sausage rolls in the shop

Definitely used to be the case, the canteen-like restaurants where you walked round with a tray were open all night

 

[Basil Jet]

Definitely used to be the case, the canteen-like restaurants where you walked round with a tray were open all night

Opening hours - motorway services

The opening hours of motorway services and major service stations, explaining when motorway service stations are allowed to close and what facilities service areas provide at night.

motorwayservices.uk

"All British motorway service areas must be open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, providing parking, fuel, hot drinks and snacks. The smaller services will tell you to go to the petrol station to get a machine-made coffee and a sandwich, while the bigger ones will have a dedicated coffee shop and newsagent open through the night."

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would say that the amenities found at large railway stations play a similar role on a long-distance train journey as motorway services do on a long-distance motorway journey. Often the facilities will be quite similar (toilets, small retail stores and take-away food usually run on a franchise basis, seating areas, and possibly a few slot machines or similar) and sometimes you'll even find the same brands (WHSmith is found in many large stations and almost every motorway service area).

In general, where would people prefer to spend time? Station facilities, or motorway services?

Also, both have a reputation for being somewhat overpriced, which leads me to wonder whether comparable products are more expensive on a station or on the motorway. Of course there is the important difference that a passenger dissatisfied with the offerings in a station can generally leave and buy something elsewhere, while at motorway services, that's not generally an option.

Very similar indeed, with good and bad of both. The one thing where services seem to do markedly better is in having a decent seating area. The old "food court" area of Euston, while a bit dingy at times, is missed, as it provided a comparable facility.

It did occur to me on a recent visit to Rugby services that it would make a very good modern medium sized station - for instance I'd be more than satisfied if MKC's building looked like that.

 

[pemma]

Knutsford services (M6) - Travelodge, Costa Coffee, Burger King, Greggs, toilets, baby changing, WH Smith, M&S Food, WiFi, 'Book a Pod'

Knutsford station - ticket office, vending machines, bookswap, InPost Lockers, Amazon Lockers, small waiting rooms, cycle storage.

Motorways have junctions, often with supermarkets, cafés and other amenities nearby.

Premier Inn and their associated restaurants can often be found on A roads near Motorway junctions.

To access Lymm services you have to actually leave the M6 and enter from the A50. The Bear's Paw pub (serving food) is just 5 minutes further along the A50.

 

[yorksrob]

I like big stations, but I also enjoy visiting a service station when travelling by road.

Architecturally there's nothing beats a grand old railway station, but some service stations have their charm. I remember visiting the old Aust/Seven Bridge service station with its grand view of the bridge. Sadly now an office block !

@Bletchleyite is correct when he mentions the better seating arrangements for food at service stations. For big railway stations, the concourse area is needed as a thoroughfare, whereas you enter the service station specifically for the service.

Are there many railway stations left with amusement arcades ? There used to be one at Leeds when I moved there over twenty years ago, but it went some time ago.

 

[sprunt]

As rail passengers do not normally have a choice in their departure/destination station they are limited to the facilities that are on offer at those stations. By contrast, motorway uses may decide which services to stop at based on their preference for one or other retailer; or even just on the general ambience at one services compared with that of one 20 miles away.

I realise there are a few independent services with better reputations these days, but is there really a difference in ambience between a Moto and a Welcome Break?

 

[joncombe]

Some major stations can be exceptionally poor. Plymouth for example where within the gate line at least there is nowhere to buy anything to eat or drink, not even a vending machine. I was there during disruption and had to resort to finding the trolley on a GWR train waiting in the station to buy anything to drink.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some major stations can be exceptionally poor. Plymouth for example where within the gate line at least there is nowhere to buy anything to eat or drink, not even a vending machine. I was there during disruption and had to resort to finding the trolley on a GWR train waiting in the station to buy anything to drink.

You could always go out of the gateline and go to the Pumpkin, but I agree it's pretty shoddy. Passing a gateline to use station facilities is always permitted.

Bristol Temple Meads is appalling - basically no concourse at all, just a few grim outlets in the manky 1980s style subway. And it's miles from anywhere.

Preston is poor too, but at least it's very near the city centre.

 

[DelW]

Bristol Temple Meads is appalling - basically no concourse at all, just a few grim outlets in the manky 1980s style subway. And it's miles from anywhere.

Obviously opinions of them vary, but there's a Wetherspoons (The Knights Templar) only about 100 yards away, serving food all day.

 

[edwin_m]

Very similar indeed, with good and bad of both. The one thing where services seem to do markedly better is in having a decent seating area. The old "food court" area of Euston, while a bit dingy at times, is missed, as it provided a comparable facility.

It did occur to me on a recent visit to Rugby services that it would make a very good modern medium sized station - for instance I'd be more than satisfied if MKC's building looked like that.

I think the reason for the lack of sit-down eating at many stations is that many people are expected to be taking their food onto a train and sitting down there. This certainly applies today but probably less so in the past, when sit-down restaurants in stations were slightly more common.

On the other hand car drivers should be encouraged to take a proper break. The recent trend towards drive-throughs in service stations (which incidentally seem to be signed from the car park far better than the actual exit!) goes right against that of course.

I wonder how the throughput of people at Rugby services compares with a medium-sized station. And all the people entering a service station do so to use the facilities, even if just the toilets, whereas many people passing through a station are only there to join or leave a train and have no particular reason to linger. This is particularly true of somewhere like Rugby where I'm guessing few people change trains.

 

[Russel]

Bristol Temple Meads is appalling - basically no concourse at all, just a few grim outlets in the manky 1980s style subway. And it's miles from anywhere.

Agree about Temple Meads, I was there last Saturday after an absence of about 10 years, I forgot how far it is from the city centre, it's at least a 15 minute walk.

I didn't find the lack of concourse a bad thing though, it's nice to use a station where time has stood still and not become a shopping centre.

 

[Falcon1200]

Bristol Temple Meads is appalling - basically no concourse at all, just a few grim outlets in the manky 1980s style subway. And it's miles from anywhere.

I wouldn't say the outlets in the subway (or the subway itself) are particularly grim, and isn't there a Pumpkin on at least one of the island platforms ?

Knutsford services (M6) - Travelodge, Costa Coffee, Burger King, Greggs, toilets, baby changing, WH Smith, M&S Food, WiFi, 'Book a Pod'

Knutsford station - ticket office, vending machines, bookswap, InPost Lockers, Amazon Lockers, small waiting rooms, cycle storage.

Not sure of the point here; I would think Knutsford M6 has a far higher customer throughput than Knutsford station, hence the differing facilities.

IMHO the 'newer' motorway service stations, built after the rules on their siting were relaxed, such as Tebay and Stafford, are far superior to the older ones. But, as has been mentioned, at most large city stations there is likely to be a choice of outlets nearby, whereas on motorways there is a captive market !

 

[joncombe]

I wouldn't say the outlets in the subway (or the subway itself) are particularly grim, and isn't there a Pumpkin on at least one of the island platforms ?

Especially not the pasty one, I think that one is great.

 

[Basil Jet]

IMHO the 'newer' motorway service stations, built after the rules on their siting were relaxed, such as Tebay and Stafford, are far superior to the older ones.

How were the rules changed, and in what way do Tebay and Stafford break the old rules?

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Some major stations can be exceptionally poor. Plymouth for example where within the gate line at least there is nowhere to buy anything to eat or drink, not even a vending machine. I was there during disruption and had to resort to finding the trolley on a GWR train waiting in the station to buy anything to drink.

Rugby is similar. Before the station rebuild of c.2008 there was a Pumpkin cafe on the platforms but no more. There is a small hot drink outlet on Plats 2/4 but it is only open M-F 6-10. Otherwise WH Smith does do Hot Drinks but is outside the gateline.
Not great for Passengers changing Trains.

 

[pemma]

Not sure of the point here; I would think Knutsford M6 has a far higher customer throughput than Knutsford station, hence the differing facilities.

Not sure about that. Many people only stop at motorway services to use the toilet or take a break from driving and don't buy anything. You can have a coach load of 50 passengers all walking around, not making any noticeable purchases. While at a station the majority of people are paying to use the railways. If there's 100 passengers on the platform they're all expected to pay something, even if it's only a £3 child ticket to the next station.

The difference is really what's been said above about the location. The people travelling by train who want a Costa/Caffe Nero coffee buy one from a town centre shop on their way to the station.

 

[Falcon1200]

How were the rules changed, and in what way do Tebay and Stafford break the old rules?

According to Wikipedia, the previous minimum separation rule, 12 miles, was removed in 2013 - Although I have a recollection from somewhere that when the first motorways were built, the minimum separation was greater, something like 25 to 30 miles, presumably to ensure that each was profitable and to reduce the number of junctions. Hence newer sites such as Stafford have appeared in between the older locations.

If there's 100 passengers on the platform they're all expected to pay something, even if it's only a £3 child ticket to the next station.

Not sure there are many occasions where 100 passengers join a train at Knutsford, whereas that number (at the same time) will be exceeded every day at every motorway service station !

 

[pemma]

Not sure there are many occasions where 100 passengers join a train at Knutsford, whereas that number (at the same time) will be exceeded every day at every motorway service station !

You'd be surprised how busy Knutsford station can get at times. The schools traffic and Barclays workers account for hundreds (plural) of people travelling to and from Knutsford station every day. The 15:44 and 17:44 Knutsford to Manchester services both get over 100 boarding in school term time and the 16:44 and 18:44 aren't far behind. Of course if Knutsford had at least a half-hourly service (like virtually every other station with the level of usage Knutsford gets), there would be fewer services where the people boarding at Knutsford could fill up almost all the seats on a class 150.

You could also say stations with a very frequent service are less likely to need facilities than ones with a less frequent service. How long do people spend at London Underground stations? Virtually no time at all, so virtually no time to use any facilities other than the escalators, stairs or lifts!

Like I said most of the people using Motorway services don't pay 1p. They are actually costing the service station providers money in using the car park and toilet facilities. The small proportion of the users who spend money then have to subside those not spending anything. In the olden days payphones at service stations took a lot of 10ps but now almost everyone has a mobile.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You'd be surprised how busy Knutsford station can get at times. The schools traffic and Barclays workers account for hundreds (plural) of people travelling to and from Knutsford station every day. The 15:44 and 17:44 Knutsford to Manchester services both get over 100 boarding in school term time and the 16:44 and 18:44 aren't far behind. Of course if Knutsford had at least a half-hourly service (like virtually every other station with the level of usage Knutsford gets), there would be fewer services where the people boarding at Knutsford could fill up almost all the seats on a class 150.

You could also say stations with a very frequent service are less likely to need facilities than ones with a less frequent service. How long do people spend at London Underground stations? Virtually no time at all, so virtually no time to use any facilities other than the escalators, stairs or lifts!

Like I said most of the people using Motorway services don't pay 1p. They are actually costing the service station providers money in using the car park and toilet facilities. The small proportion of the users who spend money then have to subside those not spending anything. In the olden days payphones at service stations took a lot of 10ps but now almost everyone has a mobile.

Though according to another thread, those schoolkids at Knutsford don't pay 1p either.

The overheads at Motorway services are insane. They're usually quite remote from other large facilities so the initial start-up costs of getting them on the power/water/sewage grids is pretty steep. As stated upthread certain parts have to be kept open 24/7/365 which means any areas accessible at 3am must be monitored and patrolled. Pretty much every staff member needs their own transport (at the MSA I worked at, there were a few 16-year-olds on summer jobs who got lifts, and one lady who cycled in along the access road) as it's understandably rare for public transport to go within a kilometre of any MSA.