Compulsory Reservations- Poll

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think there has been any suggestion of GWR having compulsory reservations. Standing for 22 minutes to Reading is no big deal. Back in the day, I used to try and get all the power cars every year so I'd do the first available winner out to Reading. I'd often stand if the train was busy. Since the 800s arrived it's rare to have to stand, unless a five car turns out vice nine or ten car. In which case reservations are irrelevant anway.

GWR is really four very different operations:

1. Thames Valley local services. No prospect of CR at all nor would it make any sense. This is a walk-up railway.
2. Cornwall, Devon and Bristol local DMU services. As (1) but fewer passengers
3. Bristol and Cardiff. Mostly a poshed-up, faster LNR-a-like or GA-a-like, not really a high speed, long-distance railway any more. CR might work but would have considerable disadvantages.
4. Paddington-Westcountry. A true long distance IC service as far as Taunton, and if CR was going to fit anywhere it would be here, though probably only as far as Taunton as after that these are also part of (2). Only 1tph, so keeping the Reading commuters off these would not be disastrous.

 

[miami]

Only 1tph, so keeping the Reading commuters off these would not be disastrous.

So either skip Reading, or have it as pickup only

 

[Bletchleyite]

So either skip Reading, or have it as pickup only

Yes, I'd agree with these specific services being pick up only at Reading (outbound) and set down only (return). A few would ignore it as they do from Euston for MKC if there's no gateline check, but a few won't cause a problem. Indeed, set down only may not be necessary, as the people from the Westcountry are already on board, so more people boarding don't make much odds.

 

[plugwash]

I'm against CR in general, but does the system allow a service to be CR for only part of it's route?

If not then afaict CR on the London to cornwall services would be a disaster as at least last time I was down there the intercity services formed a vital part of the local services from both a frequecy and capacity point of view.

 

[Hadders]

So either skip Reading, or have it as pickup only

Which trains should passengers for Reading travel on? They won't all fit on the GWR stopping trains and TfL Rail trains as they're already full upon leaving Paddington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which trains should passengers for Reading travel on? They won't all fit on the GWR stopping trains and TfL Rail trains as they're already full upon leaving Paddington.

The other GWR services. The Westcountry service is only 1tph.

 

[al78]

And also a big loss for the environment as people who can't predict when they will return home decide to drive instead of risking having to pay a huge price for their return journey.

That is one of the reasons I don't like the idea. Making trains less flexible to use is inevitably going to encourage people to drive instead, and many of our roads are as rammed full at peak times as the trains, so encouraging people to drive given the environmental and capacity situation sounds illogical.

The second reason I don't like the idea is that not allowing standing reduces the capacity of the train. It seems illogical to me to have a situation where there isn't enough capacity to meet demand, and then enact a rule which lowers the capacity of the network. The sleeper is different, it is comparable to a flight and a hostel room rolled into one and has very limited capacity, so booking is sensible. On standard services I don't yet see why a rail service should be treated like a journey by air. There are obvious reasons you can't have people standing in the aisles on an aircraft which don't apply to trains.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The other GWR services. The Westcountry service is only 1tph.

Indeed many of the West Country services at certain times of the week are already pick up only calls at Reading

 

[miami]

There are a dozen fast trains arriving into Paddington between 0800 and 0859 this morning, abnd 10 leaving between 1730 and 1820, with whatever covid timetable there is.

If there really is an overcrowding problem on the 1737 to Plymouth, making it fast through Reading isn't going to cause much delay. Preventing people with open returns from Exeter, Plymouth, or Cornwall, from getting that train if their meeting finishes early

With an open return from Plymouth I have a choice of 1604, 1637, 1704, 1737, 1904 and 2104. If the meeting finishes early I'd get the 1604 or 1637. If it finished on time it's the 1704 or 1737, if it went well a quick pint before the 1904, if it went really well I'd be on the 2104, or maybe a late night, hotel room, and get a train the next morning.

That's the whole point of a flexible ticket.

 

[father_jack]

I have not known of any enforcement of reservations on GWR, do you really expect the guard or despatcher to say you can't get on ? The reservations are still being done at ticket offices but the customer will laugh at you and it actually creates conflict when the punters are in a rush and they don't want to be questioned.

And anyway you have always been able to buy a ticket from the TVM and have no reservation intervention from anyone.

Aside, some trains give a numbered seat but many others still give a counted place. Onboard, passengers still sit where they like in spite of signage and announcements and again, it's conflict time when the trolley comes through.

 

[STINT47]

I must admit that I was not aware that GWR had compulsory reservations.

Last Autumn I needed to travel from Plymouth to London at the last minuet and purchased an off peak single from the ticket machine then boarded the next London service. It never occurred to me that I was breaking the law and could be in trouble.

Fortunately I didn't encounter a ticket check for the entire trip. In any event I had the front coach of the train to myself as far as Reading when two other people joined for the run to Paddington. Given how dead it was it would have been harsh to fine or report me for no reservation.

 

[Watershed]

I must admit that I was not aware that GWR had compulsory reservations.

Last Autumn I needed to travel from Plymouth to London at the last minuet and purchased an off peak single from the ticket machine then boarded the next London service. It never occurred to me that I was breaking the law and could be in trouble.

Fortunately I didn't encounter a ticket check for the entire trip. In any event I had the front coach of the train to myself as far as Reading when two other people joined for the run to Paddington. Given how dead it was it would have been harsh to fine or report me for no reservation.

You are not breaking the law if you travel without a reservation. You may, however, be denied boarding, for example if the train is full, and would not be able to claim any Delay Repay or other compensation if this happened.

 

[miami]

I must admit that I was not aware that GWR had compulsory reservations.

I don't see any (sleeper cabins excepted - but even then it doesn't look like there are on seats). Some people want to introduce compulsory reservations on long distance trains so people on £400 returns don't ruin the ambience of their £10 advance ticket

 

[norbitonflyer]

I don't see any (sleeper cabins excepted - but even then it doesn't look like there are on seats). Some people want to introduce compulsory reservations on long distance trains so people on £400 returns don't ruin the ambience of their £10 advance ticket

My most recent journey on LNER was a 300 mile dash to my father's deathbed. I would willingly have stood in the vestibule all the way if necessary, and would not have taken kindly to any suggestion that I should have to wait for a later train.

And what are people supposed to do if their train is cancelled, or a connection is missed, and all subsequent trains that day are already fully reserved?

The comfort of those who have been able to plan ahead should not trump the rights of those who have to travel at short notice, or whose plans have been upset by missed connections or cancelled trains.

 

[Taunton]

The comfort of those who have been able to plan ahead should not trump the rights of those who have to travel at short notice, or whose plans have been upset by missed connections or cancelled trains.

... AND who have paid maybe several times what the advance booking crew have paid.

 

[A Challenge]

... AND who have paid maybe several times what the advance booking crew have paid.

They've probably paid more then some of the passengers on advances in first class!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Perhaps, if 'compulsory reservation' is to be applied, the number of Advance fares (as a proportion of the total number of tickets/seats now available per train) should be reduced to reflect the reduced capacity, thus making that capacity available to 'walk-up' fare payers, with their compulsory reservation of course. Then again buyers of 'Saver / Off Peak Return' fares also get a substantial discount on the full fare*. Similarly the rate of Advance discount, compared to Off Peak Returns, could be reduced.

*I am old enough to remember the discount fares, once known as Blue/Whte Savers, then Savers, and now Off Peak Returns being introduced.

 

[david1212]

Perhaps, if 'compulsory reservation' is to be applied, the number of Advance fares (as a proportion of the total number of tickets/seats now available per train) should be reduced to reflect the reduced capacity, thus making that capacity available to 'walk-up' fare payers, with their compulsory reservation of course. Then again buyers of 'Saver / Off Peak Return' fares also get a substantial discount on the full fare*. Similarly the rate of Advance discount, compared to Off Peak Returns, could be reduced.

*I am old enough to remember the discount fares, once known as Blue/Whte Savers, then Savers, and now Off Peak Returns being introduced.

A quota of reduced price advance purchase train specific fares should only be offered on services that normally run well below capacity with the objectives of encouraging those who would travel anyway and are flexible about their travel times to use quieter trains and those who otherwise would not travel to fill a vacant seat so adding to revenue. Where available reservations should only be bookable for a specific service when at least the lowest fare walk on ticket is held i.e Anytime / Saver / Off-peak.

A separate debate is what proportion of seats are bookable. Should it be every seat so on a service running over capacity those who have not booked can expect to stand? Unless an abnormal situation here nobody should have a reduced price advance ticket.

 

[A Challenge]

A quota of reduced price advance purchase train specific fares should only be offered on services that normally run well below capacity with the objectives of encouraging those who would travel anyway and are flexible about their travel times to use quieter trains and those who otherwise would not travel to fill a vacant seat so adding to revenue. Where available reservations should only be bookable for a specific service when at least the lowest fare walk on ticket is held i.e Anytime / Saver / Off-peak.

A separate debate is what proportion of seats are bookable. Should it be every seat so on a service running over capacity those who have not booked can expect to stand? Unless an abnormal situation here nobody should have a reduced price advance ticket.

It generally doesn't work that advances are only sold on trains that aren't full and standing - see pre-covid XC voyagers as an example of that!

 

[KeithMcC]

If they really want to reserve every seat and cater for those paying full fare, then the train companies could be like the airlines who, if they overbook, will bump people with cheap tickets on to a later flight to keep their full fare passengers happy. BA certainly used to have a system that, for frequent flyers with sufficient status, they would guarantee a seat on a particular flight even if it was full providing they paid full fare. Which presumably meant someone else got bumped!

 

[Horizon22]

The other GWR services. The Westcountry service is only 1tph.

Reading is often pick-up only already on West Country services. Especially on Friday and Saturday in non-Covid times it is not advertised at Paddington. Has been this way for several years.

GWR's advice is currently (my bold):

- We strongly recommend making a reservation where possible – this will ensure you’re able to take the train of your choice and maintain social distancing on board
- Some of our services don’t have reservations at all; you can buy a ticket and sit in any seat
- On most of our trains that have reservations, you will be provided with a specific seat in a specific carriage; sometimes, we’ll allocate you a space on the train rather than a specific seat; this means you are booked to travel on that train and can sit in any vacant seat for your class of travel
- We will allocate you a seat/space if one is available; however, if they are all already reserved, you won’t be able to buy a ticket online for that service
- We leave some space for those with walk-up tickets, or who may have been disrupted; this helps with social distancing on board by allowing customers to make best use of all seats

 

[miami]

. BA certainly used to have a system that, for frequent flyers with sufficient status, they would guarantee a seat on a particular flight even if it was full providing they paid full fare

Yes they still do, in theory. Only in Economy from memory though. I got close to using it once - booked on a fully sold out to Bangkok I think with about 2 days notice, waitlist cleared with 12 hours though so didn't have to slum it down the back.

 

[Starmill]

The other GWR services. The Westcountry service is only 1tph.

Penzance trains on Fridays, except for the 0637 from London Paddington, for obvious reasons, are already pick up only at Reading. Could merely extend that to daily.

Still causing issues though if you really want to make these compulsory reservation, as the 1804 and 1904 need to take passengers for Newbury, for example. The 1704 needs to take passengers for Pewsey too.

 

[Pete_uk]

I thought of this thread when I read the later in Modern Railways which was celebrating the idea of not having to put up with short distance travelers on TV trains.

The problem is for some those IC trains become 'local' trains, like the Cheltenham to Paddington services between Cheltenham and Swindon

 

[Furryanimal]

As someone who attends weather dependent events and events with uncertain finish times compulsory reservation would be a big problem for me.And I don’t own a smartphone either so late booking changes are not something I could do.
The ability to turn up and go is vital to me although I’ve only been a Train three times in the last 13 months,including last week when I ignored Transport for Wales efforts to make me book for a fifteen mile trip into Cardiff.

 

[Adam Williams]

Disagree with CRs, but mostly because I don't think the reservation tech is good enough yet. NRS has been not fit for purpose for years now, I'm glad it's been turned off.

Let's see what RARS2 phase 2 brings.

 

[py_megapixel]

Disagree with CRs, but mostly because I don't think the reservation tech is good enough yet. NRS has been not fit for purpose for years now, I'm glad it's been turned off.

Let's see what RARS2 phase 2 brings.

What are NRS and RARS2?

 

[Adam Williams]

What are NRS and RARS2?

NRS = the legacy National Reservations System that has powered reservations for about a decade and a half now. It provides ticket prices for those that are quota-controlled, information on the availability of advance purchase tickets and reservations.

RARS2 = Rail Availability & Reservation Service. The replacement for NRS:

RARS is a modern rail availability and reservation platform which will not only replace the National Reservations System (NRS), but also deliver a major step change for the British rail industry through the improved functionality it offers.

 

[Brush 4]

Both of which sound customer unfriendly. If booking online and something goes wrong, there is no-one to ask for help and it becomes your problem. In a ticket office it is the staff members problem to be sorted out for you. FAQ's are time consuming annoying and often don't have 'your' problem listed. Time wasted for no result. Real staff in front of you are the only system that works efficiently and smoothly.

 

[zwk500]

Both of which sound customer unfriendly. If booking online and something goes wrong, there is no-one to ask for help and it becomes your problem. In a ticket office it is the staff members problem to be sorted out for you. FAQ's are time consuming annoying and often don't have 'your' problem listed. Time wasted for no result. Real staff in front of you are the only system that works efficiently and smoothly.

All reservations, whether made online, over the phone or in person, will be using the same system at the end of the day. There is nothing in either system that suggested it would be unavailable to staff if a company so desired. Perfectly plausible for a TOC requiring CR to have a staffed terminal at the info desk or travel centre at the London terminus, Birmingham New Street or Leeds, for those who haven't been able to make a reservation or made a mistake in their online form.