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Could diesel locomotives cause more global waming than what steam locomotives did?

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Bantamzen

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If you agree with the objective, it's important that we all contribute to getting there. What would you view as the action people need to take to get to the aim of a decarbonised society?
The first thing I would do is lose the "decarbonised" society nonsense. That way we could actually focus on the issues at hand.

And will you do that action yourself? or are you already doing it?

* In case this wasn't obvious, I mean "action" in the broadest sense possible, so any activity, not just protest
Solutions don't come from people taking "action", they come from people developing and enabling. So we need politicians that will understand that there are no quick fixes, that there is no "zero carbon" button we can press. For example, we have the ability to generate greener energy, but this is expensive and doesn't always match demand. So until ways are found to more effectively store this energy, we are going to have to accept the middle ground of nuclear energy. And in a vain attempt to keep the thread on topic, stop trying to micromanage climate change by discussing things like diesel locos being more harmful than steam. Man made climate change reversal will only happen when we accept that the solution is going to take centuries, and that a handful of self-proclaimed eco-warriors glued to the M25 or the roof of a tube train are not helping one jot.

In the meantime if you are really serious about taking "action", encourage family & friends to reduce food waste. I do it all the time, I throw away practically nothing, using any leftover food for things like stews that can be easily stored for another meal. Its nothing new BTW, we used to do this kind of thing back in the 70s and earlier. Its amazing how much food you can save, and how you can reduce your carbon footprint just by utilising everything. There, that's a 30-40% reduction in food production energy right there. Far better than chucking tomato soup at a painting... That was easy....
 
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Annetts key

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That way we could actually focus on the issues at hand.
Unfortunately, too many people ignore the “issues at hand”. Some are of the opinion that its nothing to do with them, or it’s something the government alone must do. But often, it’s how can I afford to change things.

Solutions don't come from people taking "action", they come from people developing and enabling. So we need politicians that will understand that there are no quick fixes, that there is no "zero carbon" button we can press. For example, we have the ability to generate greener energy, but this is expensive and doesn't always match demand. So until ways are found to more effectively store this energy, we are going to have to accept the middle ground of nuclear energy. And in a vain attempt to keep the thread on topic, stop trying to micromanage climate change by discussing things like diesel locos being more harmful than steam. Man made climate change reversal will only happen when we accept that the solution is going to take centuries, and that a handful of self-proclaimed eco-warriors glued to the M25 or the roof of a tube train are not helping one jot.
But people can take action. Action ranging from discussing the problems with their elected representatives, choosing which products to buy, plus many other decisions each person makes.

A lot of developments have already occurred. Yes, of course people will continue to research and develop technology and how best to change our lifestyles. Yes, it’s evolution. But a lot of better ways of doing things already exist. Are we doing enough using these things? No!

Often for any problem there is very rarely a “quick fix”. No climate or environmentalists are talking about any quick fixes.

Wind turbines that generate electricity are far cheaper than nuclear power stations, both to build and to operate. And although there are limited ways to store electricity, there are other methods of storing energy. Pumped hydroelectric systems for example. Possibly hydrogen storage systems that can feed the electricity grid when needed.

In the mean time, as more renewable electricity systems come on line, we will need to use gas turbine electricity generation less and less.

In this respect, the U.K. is doing okay. There are now only three coal power stations left in the U.K.

However, we still need to address how occupied buildings are heated. On this point, the U.K. government has not done enough. The first step is to reduce energy usage. That means buildings being super insulated including all windows being double or triple glazed, walls insulated to far higher standards than the current building regulations.

Transport is another area that needs action. Yes, the government has said that no new conventional petrol and diesel cars and vans are to be on sale in the from 2030.

But to encourage earlier take up of electric vehicles, far more effort is needed in putting in place plenty of recharging stations so that electric vehicles can be charged up when drivers are away from home and for people that can’t have a home charging point.

Similarly, although it is very far from a big win in terms of significantly making a huge difference in terms of CO2 emissions, further electrification of the mainland railways is still needed. Because it all helps.

In the meantime if you are really serious about taking "action", encourage family & friends to reduce food waste. I do it all the time, I throw away practically nothing, using any leftover food for things like stews that can be easily stored for another meal. Its nothing new BTW, we used to do this kind of thing back in the 70s and earlier. Its amazing how much food you can save, and how you can reduce your carbon footprint just by utilising everything. There, that's a 30-40% reduction in food production energy right there.
I already do this. And the vegetable waste such as peelings, skins, cores etc. goes into one of our compost bins. For reuse in the garden.
 
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Bantamzen

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Unfortunately, too many people ignore the “issues at hand”. Some are of the opinion that its nothing to do with them, or it’s something the government alone must do. But often, it’s how can I afford to change things.


But people can take action. Action ranging from discussing the problems with their elected representatives, choosing which products to buy, plus many other decisions each person makes.

A lot of developments have already occurred. Yes, of course people will continue to research and develop technology and how best to change our lifestyles. Yes, it’s evolution. But a lot of better ways of doing things already exist. Are we doing enough using these things? No!

Often for any problem there is very rarely a “quick fix”. No climate or environmentalists are talking about any quick fixes.

Wind turbines that generate electricity are far cheaper than nuclear power stations, both to build and to operate. And although there are limited ways to store electricity, there are other methods of storing energy. Pumped hydroelectric systems for example. Possibly hydrogen storage systems that can feed the electricity grid when needed.

In the mean time, as more renewable electricity systems come on line, we will need to use gas turbine electricity generation less and less.

In this respect, the U.K. is doing okay. There are now only three coal power stations left in the U.K.

However, we still need to address how occupied buildings are heated. On this point, the U.K. government has not done enough. The first step is to reduce energy usage. That means buildings being super insulated including all windows being double or triple glazed, walls insulated to far higher standards than the current building regulations.

Transport is another area that needs action. Yes, the government has said that no new conventional petrol and diesel cars and vans are to be on sale in the from 2030.

But to encourage earlier take up of electric vehicles, far more effort is needed in putting in place plenty of recharging stations so that electric vehicles can be charged up when drivers are away from home and for people that can’t have a home charging point.

Similarly, although it is very far from a big win in terms of significantly making a huge difference in terms of CO2 emissions, further electrification of the mainland railways is still needed. Because it all helps.


I already do this. And the vegetable waste such as peelings, skins, cores etc. goes into one of our compost bins. For reuse in the garden.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, however I do disagree with you saying that environmentalists are not talking about quick fixes because they are. They are fixated on targets for 2030 & 2050, and it terms of the climate these are very short timescales. Like I said, mankind's impact on the climate started thousands of years ago when we started deforestation. So 20 or 30 years really is short term in this context. I also stand by my assertion that many environmentalists, especially the fruit bats that are Extinction Rebellion, do more harm than good. Few people are going to be swayed by their actions, but a lot of people will turn against them, and by proxy the issue of man made climate change.

In terms of green energy production it has come a long way, but as we both agree storing the energy is still an issue as unlike nuclear it cannot be ramped when needed which is why we are going to need the latter for the medium term at least. And for transport we are way behind where we should be, there should be far more wires above our rails, but there aren't. So for the foreseeable future there will be diesel locos and units running around the network. We could of course just encourage more use of personal EVs, but two problems still exist with them. Firstly they use electricity that still has a large caron footprint, and will do for some time to come. Secondly our road networks are already overstressed in many areas, we really shouldn't be encouraging more.
 

Trainbike46

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I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, however I do disagree with you saying that environmentalists are not talking about quick fixes because they are. They are fixated on targets for 2030 & 2050, and it terms of the climate these are very short timescales.
There is good scientific reason to talk about 2030 and 2050, and those numbers weren't made up by climate activists, they come from various climate related treaties and international agreements.

From talking to loads of different people in the climate space, noone believes there is a quick fix. It may occasionally appear they believe that on the news, but, surprise, the news isn't very good at representing what people think and believe even when they try
Like I said, mankind's impact on the climate started thousands of years ago when we started deforestation. So 20 or 30 years really is short term in this context. I also stand by my assertion that many environmentalists, especially the fruit bats that are Extinction Rebellion, do more harm than good. Few people are going to be swayed by their actions, but a lot of people will turn against them, and by proxy the issue of man made climate change.
Historic precedent suggests you are wrong about this final point. I don't think there's much point pursuing this any further here though, because it's off-topic, and no-one on this thread is able to change anything about it anyway
In terms of green energy production it has come a long way, but as we both agree storing the energy is still an issue as unlike nuclear it cannot be ramped when needed which is why we are going to need the latter for the medium term at least.
And for transport we are way behind where we should be, there should be far more wires above our rails, but there aren't.
Fully agreed here, both on the nuclear power being needed & further electrification being a good idea.

I wish the governemnt would get a move on so construction can get started at sizewell C.

Regarding the food waste point you made above, I do that too!
 

Cowley

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I think it’s probably worth trying to get back towards the original topic of the thread if possible. Climate change is a rather large subject if we’re starting to look at all of it and we have had plenty of those threads before.

Thanks ;)
 
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