Couple have foster family removed for supporting 'racist' UKIP

[Butts]

The BNP have extreme views on ethnicity and 'repatriation', what happens when the person fostering refuses to take on a non-white child for that reason alone? Is that their right, or is that racist?

There's a strong argument to say that the BNP is only tolerated because it can be observed at an official level, rather than having to deal with an underground movement.

Contrary to popular belief not all BNP Voters sit in living rooms festooned with swastikas, watching videos of nuremberg rallies whistling horst wessell with a copy of mein kampf on their lap. (apart from Nick Griffen)

The basis of their suitabilty for fostering should be judged alongside others on non-political criteria. Not all BNP Voters will be activists just as most voters of ALL political parties are not.

The BNP is "tolerated" because we live in a democratic state which allows parties from all political hues to stand for election. You may not like their views but you should defend their right to express them. If you ban them who's next - or who else don't you agree with?

Whether you like it or not someones politics should not determine their suitability for fostering.

 

[tbtc]

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/1499-immigration-ukip-policy

says

"Ensure all EU citizens who came to Britain after 1 January 2004 are treated in the same way as citizens from other countries (unless entitled to ‘Permanent Leave to Remain’)."

To me this is effectively repatriation of EU migrants and therefore not much better than the BNP. Most people from the rest of the EU do not bother applying for leave to remain as they don't need to. So arguably they would be more likely to be deported than immigrants from outside the EU as many immigrants from outside the EU would have leave to remain.

This kind of thing could cloud your views of how to deal with kids from Eastern Europe I guess...

The problem for UKIP is that they have a main policy which a large number of people agree with (getting out of Europe), but they've decided not to just be a "single issue" party (like James Goldsmith's Referendum Party were) and have got various other policies that people may not know about (or agree with).

Wanting to treat people from Eastern Europe the same way that we treat immigrants from Africa/ Asia etc is one policy I was unaware of.

 

[WestCoast]

[

Contrary to popular belief not all BNP Voters sit in living rooms festooned with swastikas, watching videos of nuremberg rallies whistling horst wessell with a copy of mein kampf on their lap. (apart from Nick Griffen)

No, but some BNP supporters genuinely would prefer there to be less non-white people in the country and for it to be more homogeneous. Yes or no? I simply don't believe it's just about immigration in general.

The BNP is "tolerated" because we live in a democratic state which allows parties from all political hues to stand for election. You may not like their views but you should defend their right to express them. If you ban them who's next - or who else don't you agree with?

I didn't say that was my opinion, I believe that it in a democratic arena, it's important to hear all views. Freedom-of-speech does not, in my opinion, extend to hate speech which is purposely directed at entire groups though.

Whether you like it or not someones politics should not determine their suitability for fostering.

I disagree and whether you like it or not, it's my right to say that. If there is a candidate, who is a BNP activist, IMHO it should be taken into consideration.

 

[Butts]

[

No, but some BNP supporters genuinely would prefer there to be less non-white people in the country and for it to be more homogeneous. Yes or no? I simply don't believe it's just about immigration in general.

I'm sure there are a lot of Conservative and Labour voters who would express exactly the same sentiments.



I didn't say that was my opinion, I believe that it in a democratic arena, it's important to hear all views. Freedom-of-speech does not, in my opinion, extend to hate speech which is purposely directed at entire groups though.

Thats true, but as I said a tiny proportion of BNP Voters are activists. When you say groups do you include the unemployed or rich both of which are on the end of the odd tirade.



I disagree and whether you like it or not, it's my right to say that.

A wonderful endorsement to allow parties from across the political spectrum to express their views - I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[WelshBluebird]

To those saying politics shouldn't matter, would you allow a neo nazi to foster a Jewish kid? Of course not! Extreme example I know, but it proves the point that politics is important when we are talking about foster parents.

With regard to this story, it's a bit of a mess really. It should have been looked at when they were candidates to take the children (and not after the fact).

Taking away the kids does seem over the top, but at the same time it does start alarm bells in my head that the couple support a political party who think the children they were fostering probably shouldn't be in this country. (forgive me if I'm wrong but one of UKIPs policies is to stop / limit immigration is it not?).

 

[Butts]

To those saying politics shouldn't matter, would you allow a neo nazi to foster a Jewish kid? Of course not! Extreme example I know, but it proves the point that politics is important when we are talking about foster parents.

With regard to this story, it's a bit of a mess really. It should have been looked at when they were candidates to take the children (and not after the fact).

Taking away the kids does seem over the top, but at the same time it does start alarm bells in my head that the couple support a political party who think the children they were fostering probably shouldn't be in this country. (forgive me if I'm wrong but one of UKIPs policies is to stop / limit immigration is it not?).

I think it's pretty unlikely a neo-nazi would want to adopt a Jewish Child so that is largely academic. However as I said before most people are not activists and hence there is no barrier to prevent them fostering children.

What should start "alarm bells ringing" is this over zealous interference in the process by politicians and or councillors and social services.

 

[WestCoast]

A wonderful endorsement to allow parties from across the political spectrum to express their views - I couldn't have put it better myself.

Expressing views is fine, as long as they can be countered against by the opposition. A democratic political system is not a shield from terrible things, as major world events in the past have shown.

I'm sure there are a lot of Conservative and Labour voters who would express exactly the same sentiments.

Maybe, but the BNP are often strongest in diverse areas. I live in area where 36% of the population aren't White British and around half the children in local primary schools are from non-White British backgrounds. From what I've heard, in this borough a LOT of the children in foster care have a non-white background. It's a total contrast from where I used to live, which wasn't diverse at all.

Kids are impressionable people and those in foster care often have a complicated history.

I think it's pretty unlikely a neo-nazi would want to adopt a Jewish Child so that is largely academic. However as I said before most people are not activists and hence there is no barrier to prevent them fostering children.

Adoption and fostering are very different things. The latter process is designed to be a shorter term measure and the foster parents could be presented with children from many different backgrounds, both ethnic and social.

 

[tbtc]

I think it's pretty unlikely a neo-nazi would want to adopt a Jewish Child so that is largely academic

We don't know many facts here (like how involved these people are in UKIP) but we do know that members of a party committed to clamping down on migrants from Eastern Europe fostered kids from an Eastern Europe background.

Is that "academic"? Or should that be something that the council act upon?

 

[GB]

Taking away (foster) children based on who parents vote for? How ludicrous!

Next up I guess will be taking away children based on religion and then after that let's move onto same sex couples:roll:

Heads should roll over this imo

 

[Butts]

Maybe, but the BNP are often strongest in diverse areas. I live in area where 36% of the population aren't White British and around half the children in local primary schools are from non-White British backgrounds. From what I've heard, in this borough a LOT of the children in foster care have a non-white background.

It's only natural the BNP are stongest in diverse areas as in places with little or no immigrants there is no one there to blame !!! (as they see it)

I used to live in Dudley/Sandwell which both had a fairly strong BNP movement. I have worked in Alum Rock and Smethwick and would not like to live in either. My son went to a mixed-race school for both primary and secondary education.

I now live in Falkirk which is almost "pure white" and when I go back to the midlands to visit it seems strange to see so many black people walking about. However you soon get used to it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Taking away (foster) children based on who parents vote for? How ludicrous!

Next up I guess will be taking away children based on religion and then after that let's move onto same sex couples:roll:

Heads should roll over this imo

Indeed..who are "The Nazis" then ?

 

[tbtc]

Taking away (foster) children based on who parents vote for? How ludicrous!

Next up I guess will be taking away children based on religion and then after that let's move onto same sex couples:roll:

Heads should roll over this imo

You've read the bit about the kids being from an Eastern European background, the UKIP policy on reversing immigration from Eastern European countries and the council being criticised by a judge previously for not looking after the kids background?

Not quite as simple as the headlines suggest.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I'm no expert but are UKIP a racist group? yahoo answers suggested not. I know EDL and BNP are, I mean what's against different culture? They don't harm us personally and we don't harm them.

I don't see either why the foster family should have been split up from the kids, if they aren't racist why do they say so? If they were a supporter of BNP or EDL that's a different story...

 

[Oswyntail]

Is this really the Department for Education's purview?

Meanwhile on Thursday: Academies programme £1bn over budget, says watchdog. They met that £1bn from their budget but that means someone lost out, presumably the poor. Congratulations Gove, you've convinced the sheep to look away from your continual failures.....

Yes it is. Are you once again trying to drag a thread off topic to slur the government - just what you accuse Gove of doing.
It is also worth remembering that Rotherham Social Services have recently been severely criticised for total negligence in a "grooming" case involving racial overtones. There has been a stark lack of leadership either within the department or the wider council, sadly typical of many northern councils. They may well be somewhat over-sensitive to "race" issues at this time.

 

[tbtc]

I'm no expert but are UKIP a racist group?

They appear to believe in reversing the immigration from Eastern Europe and taking away the rights of Poles/ Czechs etc who've moved to the UK since 2004.

I don't know whether that's racist or not. I do know that it's probably relevant to how anyone highly connected to the party may deal with kids from Eastern Europe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is also worth remembering that Rotherham Social Services have recently been severely criticised for total negligence in a "grooming" case involving racial overtones. There has been a stark lack of leadership either within the department or the wider council, sadly typical of many northern councils. They may well be somewhat over-sensitive to "race" issues at this time.

This is a valid point, one which gives some good background to the case - there's been a lot of criticism locally, there's been an EDL march through the town, there's been a National Front demonstration... race is a big thing in Rotherham at the moment.

Now, after being criticised for being too lenient, the council appear to have gone to the other end of the scale and are being criticised for being too interventionist.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm no expert but are UKIP a racist group? yahoo answers suggested not. I know EDL and BNP are, I mean what's against different culture? They don't harm us personally and we don't harm them.

Please do proper research: look at their website / manifesto, news websites, whatever, just don't base your opinions on things like Yahoo! Answers and Wikipedia, which can be edited by anyone to say anything, regardless of whether or not it is the truth. UKIP are not a racist organisation, and myself and and I'm sure many other UKIP-ers get so annoyed with our constant comparing to the BNP and EDL, we are not the same at all. I also believe deputy leader Paul Nuttall has a strong dislike of the BNP as well, certainly nothing similar to BNP policy would be introduced with him in such a senior role.

 

[transmanche]

I'm no expert but are UKIP a racist group?

Well as I mentioned back in post #3, UKIP's official policy is to "end the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies". Use of the word 'doctrine' speaks volumes and makes it all sound a bit racist-y to me...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Well as I mentioned back in post #3, UKIP's official policy is to "end the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies". Use of the word 'doctrine' speaks volumes and makes it all sound a bit racist-y to me...

Dictionary.com defines doctrine as 'a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government'. To what extent do you consider that inaccurate with regard to multiculturalism and how it is integrated into Britain?

 

[wintonian]

I'm not going to comment too much on this but it seems to me that UKIP are trying (somewhat successfully) to make out that this a simple issue (I was going to say 'black and white' issue but that obviously wouldn't fit in the wider context) and about discrimination against them and their members. In reality this is much more likely to be about the (cultural) needs of the child and how best these can be met.

The children - who are European migrants - were removed by social workers who accused the unnamed couple of belonging to a "racist party".

Who said the social workers called the foster carers raciest? It's unlikely to be the social workers so I can only assume the foster carers are making this allegation, and it is something I find unlikely.

She said: "I have legal advice I have to follow for the placement of children and I was criticised before for not making sure their cultural and ethnic needs were met.

and it is usually a good idea to act in accordance with legal advice, and by not doing so you could be found to have acted illegally and open to0 allegations by the media (if they find out) of not looking after the interests of those in the LA's care and being negligent. - Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't - a phrase well known by social workers and socal work managers.

The social services department are clearly not saying much and quite rightly so give the needs for confidentiality and consideration to child protection, and as such there are lot of facts we don't know.Which brings us to the question of how did the media find out? Who asked Mr Farage for a comment or was one provided without it even being asked for? The comments from the DCFS secretary and Ed Milliband are clearly a political reaction to what I suspect is a political motivated story.

Why does Nigel Farage seem to think the world (or is it just Europe) is out to get him and his party? Why does he feel the need to keep saying 'but were not raciest' and thus bringing it up in areas where race wasn't until then relevant? I sometimes think he would make a god trade union leader - crying foul at every opportunity real or otherwise.

My opinion is that you should not use individual welfare cases (social services, health education etc.) for the purpose of political point scoring.

 

[GB]

You've read the bit about the kids being from an Eastern European background, the UKIP policy on reversing immigration from Eastern European countries and the council being criticised by a judge previously for not looking after the kids background?

Not quite as simple as the headlines suggest.

Do you agree with every policy your party has?

Just because a party has a particular stance on a policy does not mean that A, everyone agrees with it and B, makes them bad parents.

Fostering should be done on merit, and whether or not the child can be given good home.

 

[Liam]

I don't consider UKIP racist, but they do have a number of xenophobic policies.

 

[Butts]

Well as I mentioned back in post #3, UKIP's official policy is to "end the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies". Use of the word 'doctrine' speaks volumes and makes it all sound a bit racist-y to me...

As I have mentioned previously this view is not out of kilter with a large proportion of the UK Population regardless of which party they are affiliated to.

If you ask people questions you may not like the answers you receive, so what do you do adopt a "granola munching Guardian perspective" of "We know best how plebians think" and will act on our beliefs regardless.

 

[transmanche]

Well as I mentioned back in post #3, UKIP's official policy is to "end the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies". Use of the word 'doctrine' speaks volumes and makes it all sound a bit racist-y to me...

Dictionary.com defines doctrine as 'a particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government'. To what extent do you consider that inaccurate with regard to multiculturalism and how it is integrated into Britain?

Thank you, but I'm well aware of the dictionary definition. Using the word as they did changes the feel of the sentence and the inferences that I draw from it.

They could have said:

"End the active promotion of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies."​

But instead they chose to say:

"End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies."​

Why add the word 'doctrine'? It's not needed, but its use gives me concern about UKIP's attitude towards the issue.

 

[wintonian]

I'm not going to comment too much on this but it seems to me that UKIP are trying (somewhat successfully) to make out that this a simple issue (I was going to say 'black and white' but that wouldn't fit in the wider context) and about discrimination against them and their members. In reality this is much more likely to be about the (cultural) needs of the child and how best these can be met.

The children - who are European migrants - were removed by social workers who accused the unnamed couple of belonging to a "racist party".

Who said the social workers called the foster carers raciest? It's unlikely to be the social workers so I can only assume the foster carers are making this allegation, and it is something I find unlikely.

She said: "I have legal advice I have to follow for the placement of children and I was criticised before for not making sure their cultural and ethnic needs were met.

and it is usually a good idea to act in accordance with legal advice, and by not doing so you could be found to have acted illegally and open to0 allegations by the media (if they find out) of not looking after the interests of those in the LA's care and being negligent. - Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't - a phrase well known by social workers and socal work managers.

The social services department are clearly not saying much and quite rightly so give the needs for confidentiality and consideration to child protection, and as such there are lot of facts we don't know.Which brings us to the question of how did the media find out? Who asked Mr Farage for a comment or was one provided without it even being asked for? The comments from the DCFS secretary and Ed Milliband are clearly a political reaction to what I suspect is a political motivated story.

Why does Nigel Farage seem to think the world (or is it just Europe) is out to get him and his party? Why does he feel the need to keep saying 'but were not raciest' and thus bringing it up in areas where race wasn't untill then relevant?

My opinion is that you should not use individual welfare cases (social services, health education etc.) for the purpose of political point scoring.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But instead they chose to say:

"End the active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism by local and national government and all publicly funded bodies."​

Why add the word 'doctrine'? It's not needed, but its use gives me concern about UKIP's attitude towards the issue.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, politicians (a bit like the Daily Wail) like to use emotive words a phrases to add emphasis, making it seem like a bigger issue than it actually is, whilst in this case also highlighting the what they see as the negativity of the policy they are opposing.

 

[Butts]

I'm not going to comment too much on this but it seems to me that UKIP are trying (somewhat successfully) to make out that this a simple issue (I was going to say 'black and white' but that wouldn't fit in the wider context) and about discrimination against them and their members. In reality this is much more likely to be about the (cultural) needs of the child and how best these can be met.



Who said the social workers called the foster carers raciest? It's unlikely to be the social workers so I can only assume the foster carers are making this allegation, and it is something I find unlikely.



and it is usually a good idea to act in accordance with legal advice, and by not doing so you could be found to have acted illegally and open to0 allegations by the media (if they find out) of not looking after the interests of those in the LA's care and being negligent. - Your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't - a phrase well known by social workers and socal work managers.

The social services department are clearly not saying much and quite rightly so give the needs for confidentiality and consideration to child protection, and as such there are lot of facts we don't know.Which brings us to the question of how did the media find out? Who asked Mr Farage for a comment or was one provided without it even being asked for? The comments from the DCFS secretary and Ed Milliband are clearly a political reaction to what I suspect is a political motivated story.

Why does Nigel Farage seem to think the world (or is it just Europe) is out to get him and his party? Why does he feel the need to keep saying 'but were not raciest' and thus bringing it up in areas where race wasn't untill then relevant?

My opinion is that you should not use individual welfare cases (social services, health education etc.) for the purpose of political point scoring.

If thats a "short comment" -I'd hate to see a long one !!!

Your last paragraph sums it up succinctly

 

[wintonian]

If thats a "short comment" -I'd hate to see a long one !!!

Your last paragraph sums it up succinctly

Maybe a mod would like to delete the rest of my apparently unnecessary ramble then?

 

[Lampshade]

Why add the word 'doctrine'? It's not needed, but its use gives me concern about UKIP's attitude towards the issue.

Maybe because 'doctrine' is a perfectly appropriate word to use in the context. The word 'doctrine' refers to state policy, multiculturalism has been state policy for a while.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

These are kids of an Eastern European background.

I was not going to pass comment about the terminology "Eastern European" being used as a "blanket" coverage for all peoples from that portion of Europe, but after this phrase being used a few times on this thread, I would remind everyone that Poland (the generic country of the fostered children in this story) is a far different place than either Romania or Bulgaria.

 

[transmanche]

Maybe because 'doctrine' is a perfectly appropriate word to use in the context. The word 'doctrine' refers to state policy, multiculturalism has been state policy for a while.

So why not use the word 'policy' instead? Or not say it at all?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The BNP is "tolerated" because we live in a democratic state which allows parties from all political hues to stand for election. You may not like their views but you should defend their right to express them. If you ban them who's next - or who else don't you agree with? Whether you like it or not someones politics should not determine their suitability for fostering.

I am looking at an area of high South-Asian continental immigration into Britain that has been established for quite some period of time and to how this might affect the strength of numbers who support either the BNP or UKIP in terms of their reaction to this. I find that East Lancashire is such an area, where much of the original immigration was to provide workers in the textile industry. Burnley was one council area where the BNP made gains of elected local councillors some years ago.

How numerically strong is UKIP in the East Lancashire area, compared to the BNP?

 

[wintonian]

The BNP is "tolerated" because we live in a democratic state which allows parties from all political hues to stand for election. You may not like their views but you should defend their right to express them. If you ban them who's next - or who else don't you agree with?

This I agree with this and indeed I have been in positions where there has been a need to treat them the same as other parties in defence of democracy, through which the people (or at least those that go out and vote) shall and do decide the validity of their policies and ideology.