Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

TravelDream

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There seem to be strong rumours that Johnson will exempt 2,500 UEFA officials and VIPs from quarantining to keep the Euro finals in Wembley.

Now, surely even this government knows that this will go down like a lead balloon with citizens, so hopefully he will try to avoid a backlash by opening up much of Europe to the green list, especially given most countries have rates lower than ours now.

What rumours? They have been exempted.

UEFA threatened to move the finals to Budapest if the UK gov didn't let UEFA officials and sponsors in without restrictions.

As for the lead balloon, reaction to the BBQ and mingling at the G7 was pretty weak all things considered. I think this will be the same.
 
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kristiang85

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What rumours? They have been exempted.

UEFA threatened to move the finals to Budapest if the UK gov didn't let UEFA officials and sponsors in without restrictions.

As for the lead balloon, reaction to the BBQ and mingling at the G7 was pretty weak all things considered. I think this will be the same.

Oh I didn't know it had been confirmed yet?
 

island

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Whilst it’s unlikely to change the public viewpoint, the UEFA suits are limited to a bubble of their hotel and the stadium, and a stay of under 24 hours. Which is less risky than the G7 (inter alia).
 

westv

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Maybe Johnson should agree to UEFA and then change his mind if/when England don't qualify for the final.:D
 

YorkshireBear

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I'm still not hopeful of getting to Germany in December! It just appears to be kicking the can down the road continually. For now I think our main problem will soon not be who the government let us go to, but who allow us in.
 

TravelDream

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I'm still not hopeful of getting to Germany in December! It just appears to be kicking the can down the road continually. For now I think our main problem will soon not be who the government let us go to, but who allow us in.

On the UK side, it seems very likely now there'll be some easing of restrictions on international travel for those double vaccinated some time in the near-ish future. Though some restrictions like costly testing will still be in place. From what I have seen on Twitter, some are suggesting the price of these two PCR tests is going to fall though in the next couple of months.

The problem for you then is what the German's decide to do. Germany currently requires a 14 day quarantine, but December is 6 months away and that is basically a different era in these pandemic times. The Delta variant is already present in Germany and will likely make up a significant portion of cases very soon.

Of course some countries will let you in. Neighbouring Poland will let you in test and quarantine free if you have received both vaccines. Not that I am suggesting you travel there and then cross the border of course.
 

Cdd89

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From what I have seen on Twitter, some are suggesting the price of these two PCR tests is going to fall though in the next couple of months.
It would make a lot of sense if it did. PCR testing of travel returnees should have a low chance of any individual test returning positive (having already tested negative by Rapid Test), and so the testing pools can be quite large.

Post arrival testing is going to decimate inbound tourism, though. Who wants to do that when visiting a country?
 

greyman42

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There seem to be strong rumours that Johnson will exempt 2,500 UEFA officials and VIPs from quarantining to keep the Euro finals in Wembley.

Now, surely even this government knows that this will go down like a lead balloon with citizens, so hopefully he will try to avoid a backlash by opening up much of Europe to the green list, especially given most countries have rates lower than ours now.
Johnson also has the problem that UEFA are not going to put up with a final with fans sparsely dotted around the stadium.
 

TravelDream

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So it looks like quarantine free travel from August for the double vaccinated is now almost certain. It's not confirmed yet, but this government seems to leak everything to the press so we already know most of the details unless there's a last minute change.
Matt Hancock talked about it today and it is now leading some of the newspapers compared to being just a side-story when first mooted last week.
The story also confirms what I inferred last week. Whilst quarantine will end for people coming from Amber countries, tests before departure and on days 2 and 8 in the UK will stay. The total cost will be at least £100+ per person.
The Daily Mail headlines say:

Holidays 'back on by August': Double-jabbed Brits will find out on THURSDAY if amber list quarantine rules will be dropped as No10 looks at replacing isolation with testing and desperate travel firms beg Boris to let the 'dawn break' for the industry​

  • The Health Secretary Matt Hancock today said the Government is 'working on' plans to open up foreign trips
  • Reports suggest Government will unveil an overhaul of the current traffic light rules on Thursday this week
  • Could see people who have had two coronavirus jabs made exempt from amber list quarantine requirements
  • Mr Hancock confirmed Government is 'working on' double-jab rule change to replace isolation with testing
  • Came as travel bosses warned 'the wolves are at the door' as they issued a 'heartfelt plea' for rules to be eased

Johnson also has the problem that UEFA are not going to put up with a final with fans sparsely dotted around the stadium.
The UK gov just announced they'll allow 75% capacity at the stadium. It seems UEFA have got what they wanted after threatening to move the finals abroad.
 

MikeWM

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I'm probably doing the thing where I'm trying to make sense of something nonsensical again - but I'm struggling to be the logic behind replacing quarantine by daily tests, *but only for those vaccinated*? Surely that would work for those not vaccinated, too?

Seems that either they are effectively admitting the tests are rubbish, or just starting down what will no doubt be a very long road of 'punishing' the unvaccinated. Or both.
 

TravelDream

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I'm probably doing the thing where I'm trying to make sense of something nonsensical again - but I'm struggling to be the logic behind replacing quarantine by daily tests, *but only for those vaccinated*? Surely that would work for those not vaccinated, too?

Seems that either they are effectively admitting the tests are rubbish, or just starting down what will no doubt be a very long road of 'punishing' the unvaccinated. Or both.

I think you are mistaking two different things.

The travel requirements are/ will be to have a PCR test before leaving the Amber list country and then two more PCR tests here in the UK on day 2 and day 8. These are paid for by the traveler.

The daily test thing is for people who would normally quarantine after being in close contact with someone with Covid. These people haven't left the UK so it's not related to travel.

Both of these are only for those fully vaccinated.
 

johncrossley

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Ending quarantine requirements won't make that much difference if people still have to spend a lot of money and have the hassle of getting tests. A lot of people won't even want to be tested even if it is free, given the unpleasantness of putting the thing up your nose.
 

MikeWM

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I think you are mistaking two different things.

The travel requirements are/ will be to have a PCR test before leaving the Amber list country and then two more PCR tests here in the UK on day 2 and day 8. These are paid for by the traveler.

The daily test thing is for people who would normally quarantine after being in close contact with someone with Covid. These people haven't left the UK so it's not related to travel.

Both of these are only for those fully vaccinated.

That's not what your linked article says!

Hopes are rising for a foreign summer holiday season in August as ministers are 'working on' plans to exempt fully vaccinated Britons from quarantine rules.

Matt Hancock confirmed ministers are looking at how to scrap the requirement for people to isolate for 10 days on return from an amber list country.

The Health Secretary said he is 'in favour of moving forward in this area' and replacing quarantine with daily testing.
 

Bantamzen

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I'm probably doing the thing where I'm trying to make sense of something nonsensical again - but I'm struggling to be the logic behind replacing quarantine by daily tests, *but only for those vaccinated*? Surely that would work for those not vaccinated, too?

Seems that either they are effectively admitting the tests are rubbish, or just starting down what will no doubt be a very long road of 'punishing' the unvaccinated. Or both.
Logic? :lol::lol:

Oh wait, you were being serious, you expect logic to be applied? OK, so let's recap. We have spent the last 16 months dipping in and out of various different levels of restrictions and lockdowns, with some of the time spent hiding behind bits of plastic or rags over our gobs, applying millions of miles of plastic stickers & tape to "enforce" social distancing, erected millions of tons of clear plastic to ensure that air can't move around freely whilst encouraging venues to open doors & windows to allow air to move freely. We have spent several times the annual NHS budget to "protect the NHS" whilst also managing to spend billions on PPE we couldn't use, Nightingale hospitals we barely used, and a track & trace system you can simply ignore. And all this happened as we shoved millions of people onto lower incomes, wreaked thousands of businesses, lost countless amounts of tax revenue, created one of the single most worrying mental health issues for centuries, added an extra million plus to NHS waiting lists, and we still didn't "defeat the virus".

Logic? You're 'aving a larf int'ya?
 

TheBeard

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Boycott Amazon,MSM, all other multinationals and all holiday companies abroad until it is made fair.
Hit them below the belt until it's stopped.
 

TravelDream

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That's not what your linked article says!
Clearly I get an F for English reading! You are very right and that's what the article says.

Surely they can't mean 10 PCR tests (one on each day for 10 day)!?
They cost at least £70 each which means at least £700 of testing per person - Probably in the range of £3000 for a family of four all things considered. They also take 24 hours+ between taking the test and getting the results.

The self-administered lateral flow tests are much cheaper of course, but less accurate. They cost between five and ten pounds each though so that's still £50-100 per person. More if the government requires some sort of remote supervision.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the full announcement on Thursday (if it happens).
 

Bikeman78

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Logic? :lol::lol:

Oh wait, you were being serious, you expect logic to be applied? OK, so let's recap. We have spent the last 16 months dipping in and out of various different levels of restrictions and lockdowns, with some of the time spent hiding behind bits of plastic or rags over our gobs, applying millions of miles of plastic stickers & tape to "enforce" social distancing, erected millions of tons of clear plastic to ensure that air can't move around freely whilst encouraging venues to open doors & windows to allow air to move freely. We have spent several times the annual NHS budget to "protect the NHS" whilst also managing to spend billions on PPE we couldn't use, Nightingale hospitals we barely used, and a track & trace system you can simply ignore. And all this happened as we shoved millions of people onto lower incomes, wreaked thousands of businesses, lost countless amounts of tax revenue, created one of the single most worrying mental health issues for centuries, added an extra million plus to NHS waiting lists, and we still didn't "defeat the virus".

Logic? You're 'aving a larf int'ya?
Even though the content is serious, the tone of this post made me laugh a lot so thanks for that!
 

kristiang85

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Clearly I get an F for English reading! You are very right and that's what the article says.

Surely they can't mean 10 PCR tests (one on each day for 10 day)!?
They cost at least £70 each which means at least £700 of testing per person - Probably in the range of £3000 for a family of four all things considered. They also take 24 hours+ between taking the test and getting the results.

The self-administered lateral flow tests are much cheaper of course, but less accurate. They cost between five and ten pounds each though so that's still £50-100 per person. More if the government requires some sort of remote supervision.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the full announcement on Thursday (if it happens).

I'd hope its the freebie LFTs, but I guess the government wants to get more money in for their mates...

A test per day for 10 days sounds incredibly excessive.
 

MikeWM

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Clearly I get an F for English reading! You are very right and that's what the article says.

No worries :) I'd seen this suggested somewhere else already so read the article pre-armed with that information.

Surely they can't mean 10 PCR tests (one on each day for 10 day)!?
They cost at least £70 each which means at least £700 of testing per person - Probably in the range of £3000 for a family of four all things considered. They also take 24 hours+ between taking the test and getting the results.

The self-administered lateral flow tests are much cheaper of course, but less accurate. They cost between five and ten pounds each though so that's still £50-100 per person. More if the government requires some sort of remote supervision.

I'd suspect LFTs, but they have their own set of problems, not least that the USA has been highly critical of them and refuse to use them.

In a scathing review, the US health agency suggested the performance of the test had not been established, presenting a risk to health, and that the tests should be thrown in the bin or returned to the California-based manufacturer Innova.

Perhaps no-one in the government (or their friends) is making money from them in the USA.

(Maybe this should have its own thread...)
 

Mintona

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April 2025 for unrestricted international travel is my prediction. But by then it’ll cost thousands for a flight to Paris.
 

kristiang85

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April 2025 for unrestricted international travel is my prediction. But by then it’ll cost thousands for a flight to Paris.

And the Eurostar will have gone bust probably.

And, in another update today, the shocking news that the only Green party MP is against the scrapping of quarantine:

It would be "reckless" to drop the self-isolation requirement for travellers returning from amber-listed destinations, MPs in the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Coronavirus have claimed.

Caroline Lucas, vice-chairwoman of the group, said: "The Delta variant first arrived here in the UK precisely because of inadequate pre-travel requirements and health checks at UK arrival halls, compounded by a lack of support and enforcement of mandatory quarantine.

"Scrapping quarantine measures now would be reckless and risks squandering the hard-earned freedoms of the British public again, just like they did last summer".

All travellers arriving in the UK from countries and territories on the amber list must self-isolate for up to 10 days. However, Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, has confirmed that ministers are "working on" plans for quarantine-free travel for fully vaccinated Britons.

Analysis of NHS Test and Trace figures by The Times found that fewer than one in 200 travellers who entered the UK from amber tier countries between May 20 and June 9 tested positive for coronavirus.

The quarantine rule change could be revealed on Thursday following the meeting of the Cabinet’s Covid-O committee, in which ministers are set to approve the vaccination travel plans and make a call on whether to expand the green list.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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And the Eurostar will have gone bust probably.

And, in another update today, the shocking news that the only Green party MP is against the scrapping of quarantine:
Quarantine free if you've had both jabs has to be reasonable otherwise what's the point but it ought to be a global arrangement. I appreciate its two tier but needs to be sold to younger people that the airline won't have gone bust so you will get your chance later in the summer. However, if you haven't you will have to quarantine currently as we need to contain importation of cases, even this won't stop it but its all about keeping numbers suppressed, until we are >70% double dose then maybe testing only can be used.

Yes the fact low number of cases are being found is good indicator but the numbers travelling from amber countries is miniscule so not reflective of what would happen if it was unconstrained travel.

Bottom line has to be to take all necessary measures however unpalatable to ensure govt are given no excuse to reverse anything so it can't just be ignored and its disappointing we are getting a very binary approach to this of either no restrictions or full restrictions.
 

Watershed

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And, in another update today, the shocking news that the only Green party MP is against the scrapping of quarantine:
Getting some serious Stockholm syndrome vibes there.

"Hard-earned freedoms"? Pull the other leg...

The only thing that is "reckless" here is ruining an industry, in fact many tourist-reliant countries' economies, out of an abundance of caution.

The standard applied when reviewing restrictions should always be "Would this have been seen as a proportionate response in February 2020?" - not "Could this possibly reduce the risk by any amount, in any way?".
 

TravelDream

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The big announcement will be later today.

It seems Malta and the Balearics/ some of the Balearics are probably going on the green list. We will also probably hear something on quarantine free travel for the fully vaccinated. Though that isn't going to come in immediately.

But as the Mail says, will it be a 'ticket to nowhere?' as more countries add the UK to their no/ restricted travel lists?

 

Dr Day

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But as the Mail says, will it be a 'ticket to nowhere?' as more countries add the UK to their no/ restricted travel lists?
Most definitely, and in general the media are very poor at communicating this. No point eg Republic of Ireland being on the green list, (ie people can get back into GB without issue) if they aren't allowed in in the first place (without PCR tests and 10-day isolation on arrival).

Further concern is EU working as a bloc and no countries allowing arrivals from GB, rather than the current individual country setting their own rules on who they let in.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The big announcement will be later today.

It seems Malta and the Balearics/ some of the Balearics are probably going on the green list. We will also probably hear something on quarantine free travel for the fully vaccinated. Though that isn't going to come in immediately.

But as the Mail says, will it be a 'ticket to nowhere?' as more countries add the UK to their no/ restricted travel lists?


How they going to justify so few countries given that Portugual was put on with a case rate at <40 a month ago
1624529977570.png
The vaccination rates have also nearly double with this group of countries
1624530311765.png
Several of these countries have thee own restrictions which will dissuade the majority of people but other than Portugal they should all be on green list but JBC don't give any thresholds so govt do what it wants again.
 

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