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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

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nw1

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I am boycotting Italy until they remove the mandate. On my last trip I hardly wore an FFP2 though, I made sure to wear either no mask or a breathable cloth mask as much as possible. I had plenty of water bottles with me at all times.
I'm not boycotting anywhere, but the Italian government's differential treatment depending on what side of 50 you are (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/italy-makes-covid-vaccinations-compulsory-for-over-50s), and the Netherlands' government's differential treatment depending on your EU citizen status, both annoyed me intensely as examples of blatant prejudice. The blatant ageism of the Italian government in particular is really shocking. Imagine if they had differentiated treatment of people based on race or sexual orientation.
 
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Watershed

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I'm going to sound like a stuck record but what is the end game for Germany? The Covid situation is about as good as it's likely to be so that implies masks will remain indefinitely. England hasn't had them for most of the past nine months and yet nothing bad has happened.
Indeed. Just as when we were in lockdown, it's the lack of a roadmap out of restrictions that is almost the most depressing. I couldn't imagine living in one of those countries, not knowing if I'd ever be allowed on a train maskless again.

Also why are some UK airlines still so keen on them? Are they suggesting that planes are less safe than pubs, trains, shops, theatres etc.?
Ryanair and Aer Lingus are, AFAIK, the main carriers flying to/from the UK that still mandate masks on all flights. The Irish Times claims that they are required to do so under Irish aviation regulations, but that sounds utterly bizarre to me seeing as all domestic and travel restrictions have been lifted.

Most of the others have dropped masks where both the origin and destination countries don't require masks, whilst Jet2 has gone one step further by scrapping the mandate on all flights.

The fact that Jet2 are evidently 'getting away' with that policy suggests that other airlines are effectively choosing to mandate masks longer than necessary.

I'm not boycotting anywhere, but the Italian government's differential treatment depending on what side of 50 you are (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/italy-makes-covid-vaccinations-compulsory-for-over-50s), and the Netherlands' government's differential treatment depending on your EU citizen status, both annoyed me intensely as examples of blatant prejudice. The blatant ageism of the Italian government in particular is really shocking. Imagine if they had differentiated treatment of people based on race or sexual orientation.
It's certainly discrimination, but not all protected characteristics are protected equally. At least in the UK, the Equality Act provides a surprisingly low level of protection against age discrimination, due to the wide-ranging exceptions which service providers etc. can take advantage of. Similarly at an EU level.

Out of all the various forms of discrimination and restrictions that were imposed during the pandemic, age based vaccination mandates were certainly amongst the most unpalatable. However, they did at least have an arguable medical basis - generally speaking, the older you are the more likely you are to become seriously ill and therefore end up in hospital.

Like all restrictions and mandates, there were always going to be perverse edge cases, but I don't think it can be attacked (like the "substantial meal" rule, for example) for being fundamentally unscientific. It's just that it struck at the heart of one of the key human freedoms - medical autonomy.
 

nw1

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It's certainly discrimination, but not all protected characteristics are protected equally. At least in the UK, the Equality Act provides a surprisingly low level of protection against age discrimination, due to the wide-ranging exceptions which service providers etc. can take advantage of. Similarly at an EU level.
Yes, ageism is the one form of prejudice that still seems semi-politically-acceptable.
Out of all the various forms of discrimination and restrictions that were imposed during the pandemic, age based vaccination mandates were certainly amongst the most unpalatable. However, they did at least have an arguable medical basis - generally speaking, the older you are the more likely you are to become seriously ill and therefore end up in hospital.
I see what you mean but that should be your decision to do your own risk assessment, and not the state deciding for you. The only possible exception to this is if you spread it more easily if you're above a certain age, which I am almost certain is not the case.

So for example, someone fit aged 52 might consider themselves low risk. Someone unfit of 32 might consider themselves higher risk and take appropriate precautions.

The state does not attempt to restrict certain activity if you are at high risk of a heart attack. So if it doesn't protect you from a heart attack by legislation if you are in a higher-risk group, why Covid?
 
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kristiang85

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It's just that it struck at the heart of one of the key human freedoms - medical autonomy.

It is interesting to see, following yesterday's leaks in America, that those now preaching very loudly about womens' rights over their bodies are also broadly the same political demographic as those in support of the more extreme NPIs, and compulsory vaccinations... I think the irony is somewhat lost on them.
 

yorkie

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Proportionally, the Czech Republic has had more deaths than Italy. It's too late to do the maths, but:

CZ: 10.7m people, 40k deaths
Italy: 59.5m people, 160k deaths
But why was this? Could the reasons be anything other than what you infer?
Did/do they measure deaths in the same way?
What about excess deaths?
What period were these deaths during?
Can you really make conclusions based on these (unreferenced and unexplained) stats?

I'm not sure how such behaviour is something to be proud of. Being a good guest involves complying with the host's rules.
Being a good host does not mean requiring FFP2 masks.
The reality is that the average person is not at all interested in imposing such rules and only goes along with it because they are told to.
Also I saw many people doing exactly the same thing so I was only fitting in with the locals!
Given that their death rate is lower than in other countries, perhaps they know something?
See my questions above.

I'm going to sound like a stuck record but what is the end game for Germany?
The only end game in town is to reach endemic equilibrium.

But countries such as Germany, Italy etc have rejected this for quite some time and are reluctant to admit they were wrong.

If a highly contagious virus cannot be eliminated then it is going to continue to spread at a rapid rate anywhere where a high level of immunity has not already been built up and will eventually reach a state of endemic equilibrium.

Countries can try to delay the onset of endemic equilibrium but they cannot prevent it, no matter how hard they try.

It is interesting to see, following yesterday's leaks in America, that those now preaching very loudly about womens' rights over their bodies are also broadly the same political demographic as those in support of the more extreme NPIs, and compulsory vaccinations... I think the irony is somewhat lost on them.
Indeed. They lack the intelligence to understand this.
 

D6130

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My wife and I are travelling by Eurostar to Paris - en route to Italy - on Sunday 8th May. I'm picking up conflicting information from different sources about whether or not we still have to fill in EU passenger locator forms before boarding. Has anyone travelled outbound to Paris by Eurostar in the past week or two....and - if so - did you have to compile a PLF and was it requested before boarding, either by Eurostar gate staff or French frontier police?
 

island

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My wife and I are travelling by Eurostar to Paris - en route to Italy - on Sunday 8th May. I'm picking up conflicting information from different sources about whether or not we still have to fill in EU passenger locator forms before boarding. Has anyone travelled outbound to Paris by Eurostar in the past week or two....and - if so - did you have to compile a PLF and was it requested before boarding, either by Eurostar gate staff or French frontier police?
France does not require PLFs and has not done since mid-January.

I travelled on Eurostar to Marne-la-Vallée–Chessy on 10 April and the only things I needed were passport, vaccine pass, and a mask.
 

island

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I made my day trip to Ireland yesterday via BA without any masks or COVID paperwork, a few remnants of signage and the odd announcement were present and widely ignored.
 

scarby

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Belgium looks set to scrap the obligation to wear face masks on public transport in the near future, with the formalities to take place next week.
 

Howardh

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I'm waiting on the 15th May where the current protocols entering Spain are supposed to be reviewed (hopefully all abandoned).

Meanwhile - some countries eg. netherlands still insist on covid vax and within 270 days. However the small print appears to state that if you have had a booster, then there is no time limit at all. That appears to be the situation currently for Spain, if anyone has come across this regulation I'd like it confirmed.

No word on when Spain Belgium Holland will open to unvaccinated?
See my post! Personally I would get that vax before travel on the grounds that I wouldn't want to fall seriously ill overseas, even if fully insured.

EDIT: on the Ibiza holiday forums it's suggested the Spanish review has been put back a fortnight. C'mon Spain, you need all the tourism you can get..!!
 
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Peterthegreat

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I travelled out on the 09.01 from St Pancras to Brussels this morning. There were no covid related checks either at St Pancras or Brussels. Announcements were made stating it was compulsory to wear masks at stations and on board. However I would estimate less than a quarter of passengers did wear masks on the train. Announcements were also made that it was necessary to fill in a Belgian Passenger Locator form before arrival in Bxs. However, as stated, there were no checks. On talking to the crew it appears random checks are made at Midi.
I'm now on a train to Namur. Mask wearing is around 80%.
 

Howardh

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I travelled out on the 09.01 from St Pancras to Brussels this morning. There were no covid related checks either at St Pancras or Brussels. Announcements were made stating it was compulsory to wear masks at stations and on board. However I would estimate less than a quarter of passengers did wear masks on the train. Announcements were also made that it was necessary to fill in a Belgian Passenger Locator form before arrival in Bxs. However, as stated, there were no checks. On talking to the crew it appears random checks are made at Midi.
I'm now on a train to Namur. Mask wearing is around 80%.
So it's still a confusing mess? As for masks on trains, if it isn't compulsory by law here, in France or Belgium, what could a TOC do to you if you refused to wear one? Throw you off? Fine you? (Which country's laws?) Although I suppose if they have laws to stop you smoking/drinking on trains they can have laws on what you wear!

When I travel to Ibiza (next month) and Netherlands (July) by air I'm not expecting to fill in any forms at all.
 

Peterthegreat

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So it's still a confusing mess? As for masks on trains, if it isn't compulsory by law here, in France or Belgium, what could a TOC do to you if you refused to wear one? Throw you off? Fine you? (Which country's laws?) Although I suppose if they have laws to stop you smoking/drinking on trains they can have laws on what you wear!
I think mask wearing is still compulsory on public transport in both France and Belgium.
 

island

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So it's still a confusing mess? As for masks on trains, if it isn't compulsory by law here, in France or Belgium, what could a TOC do to you if you refused to wear one? Throw you off? Fine you? (Which country's laws?) Although I suppose if they have laws to stop you smoking/drinking on trains they can have laws on what you wear!

When I travel to Ibiza (next month) and Netherlands (July) by air I'm not expecting to fill in any forms at all.
Masks are mandatory by law on trains in France and Belgium, and police can issue fines. No idea how much if at all it is enforced.
 

yorkie

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I think mask wearing is still compulsory on public transport in both France and Belgium.
Yes, I believe France, Belgium, Spain, Germany, Austria all victimise public transport and I think none of them require masks in other settings?

It's great that Belgium is seeing sense; we need the others to follow suit ASAP.
 

Citybreak1

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Wow very depressing to see these rules still abroad. At this rate I may give going abroad a miss until 2023 until the madness ends.
 

rvdborgt

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I travelled out on the 09.01 from St Pancras to Brussels this morning. There were no covid related checks either at St Pancras or Brussels. Announcements were made stating it was compulsory to wear masks at stations and on board.
The obligation in Belgium to wear masks at stations has long gone.
 

island

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The EU air safety authority has advised member states and airlines to drop mask requirements on planes from next week.
 

Watershed

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The EU air safety authority has advised member states and airlines to drop mask requirements on planes from next week.
Hopefully this will prod some of the holdouts into action (looking at you, Ryanair...!).
 

Watershed

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Ruinair quite likes having mask rules as they drive up onboard drink sales.
Indeed, when I last went through the booking process they were pushing food & drink orders, explicitly saying "remember, you can enjoy your meal mask-free". Not that I'm sure there'd be any other way of doing so, mind!
 
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