Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[kristiang85]

These people sound as dangerously extremist as the more militant Trump supporters. Really. And I say this as an anti-Conservative, anti-Brexiter social liberal who detests Donald Trump.

Just seems mindless. It's as if a mandatory part of being an anti-Republican, anti-Trump person is being a militant restrictionist. It's certainly not being very "liberal", that's for sure.

I'm never 100% sure of what "identity politics" means, but is this an example of it? The feel that if you identify as being of a certain social group, you have to sign up to a whole "package" of beliefs, even though in truth you might only believe some of them? As another example, and crossing the political divide, some people might also support Brexit, not because they believe in it, but because it's "expected" for their social group?

From what I can tell: To the extremes of the political spectrum in America, the mask is bascially a binary symbol of whether you are pro Trump or anti Trump. I think some of these people have it ingrained in their head that someone not wearing a mask would have been someone storming the Capitol in Jan 2020 or someone who supports cops shooting unarmed black people, so therefore you must be a very dangerous person. It is getting to that level of hate, and the masks are a convenient way for the extreme left to label these people as 'killers' and get away with it. Even though probably a lot of the milder, non political left leaning Americans probably hate masks too!

If anybody on this board who knows American political psyche better than I do can elaborate further, please do, but that's how I see it from the outside (looking at this nonsense on Twitter).

 

[Scotrail12]

Speaking of the polarisation in America, this professor guy goes on talkRADIO with Rob Rinder every Friday and spouts complete scaremongering rubbish (rarely challenged by Rinder). Scaremongering over Ukraine, obviously a hardcore pro masker etc. Kevin O'Sullivan covered the show yesterday and did not let him off the hook:

https://twitter.com/TalkTV/status/1525162931511517186

Kevin clashes with commentator Jon-Christopher Bua over the effectiveness of masks against Covid.
Kevin: "Plenty of doctors will tell you they don't work!"

Seems to present it as a 'fact' that masks work. Refuses to acknowledge any sort of debate over it. Also mentioned that he was terrified being in Florida without masks. Get a grip dude! I guess this is just the academic ego at work. And FWIW, O'Sullivan does actually have people on his show who are credible doctors and against masks (regularly has segments with Dr. Renee Hoenderkamp) so it's not like he's some sort of crank with no evidence.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If anybody on this board who knows American political psyche better than I do can elaborate further, please do, but that's how I see it from the outside (looking at this nonsense on Twitter).

I once stayed on a ranch near Zion National Park in Utah (long before Trump), and the van driver who drove us up from Zion to the ranch cast off his seat belt at the NP exit and launched into a tirade about government rules he disliked.
Seat belts were compulsory on federal territory like national parks, but not on state or private land.
Coming from a 100% compliant UK is seemed a very odd attitude then - not so much now.

 

[nw1]

From what I can tell: To the extremes of the political spectrum in America, the mask is bascially a binary symbol of whether you are pro Trump or anti Trump. I think some of these people have it ingrained in their head that someone not wearing a mask would have been someone storming the Capitol in Jan 2020 or someone who supports cops shooting unarmed black people, so therefore you must be a very dangerous person. It is getting to that level of hate, and the masks are a convenient way for the extreme left to label these people as 'killers' and get away with it. Even though probably a lot of the milder, non political left leaning Americans probably hate masks too!

If anybody on this board who knows American political psyche better than I do can elaborate further, please do, but that's how I see it from the outside (looking at this nonsense on Twitter).

Though looking through the replies on Twitter, I don't think the reason is that because they think they will then go out and murder innocent black people. It's more that they actually appear to think that someone not wearing a mask over their nose is likely to cause deaths from Omicron. Rather unlikely I suspect, given Omicron isn't especially deadly. I suspect the same people would not have complained about unmasked asymptomatic people attending the theatre in a bad flu season, which is what Omicron appears to be equivalent to.

But I suspect they don't seriously believe that, it's just that they see it as part of their political identity, as you say. If you are anti-Trump, you have to take a hardline attitude towards Covid measures. Apparently. Being anti-Trump and also being sceptical of Covid measures in 2022 is Not Acceptable and Will Not Be Tolerated.

The comment that says "being nice is a weakness" sounds especially fanatical. Sounds like the words of some sort of pro-government type from the USSR.

Sheep politics. People need to think for themselves, rather than just sign up to a package of political beliefs, some good, some less so. See also: people supporting Brexit, not because they see it as a good thing, but because they see it as part of their identity.

 

[Bikeman78]

Though looking through the replies on Twitter, I don't think the reason is that because they think they will then go out and murder innocent black people. It's more that they actually appear to think that someone not wearing a mask over their nose is likely to cause deaths from Omicron. Rather unlikely I suspect, given Omicron isn't especially deadly. I suspect the same people would not have complained about unmasked asymptomatic people attending the theatre in a bad flu season, which is what Omicron appears to be equivalent to.

Around 36,000 people are killed on US roads every year. Yet most Americans drive, seemingly totally unconcerned by this. If my maths is correct, the death rate is around six times that of the UK.

 

[kristiang85]

Though looking through the replies on Twitter, I don't think the reason is that because they think they will then go out and murder innocent black people.

No that wasn't what I was saying (sorry if not clear!); I'm just saying many on the 'blue' side are so incensed by those on the right, that they've subconsciously extrapolated the non-mask wearers to be as bad as all the other things they blame the right for, which would kind of explain the hysterical and nonsensical posts, but they do seem to truly belive non mask wearers are happy for their actions to kill people. Which is complete tosh, but so many seem to be brainwashed into thinking that.

Having watched the CNN coverage of the Capitol riot when it happened, I can see why they would think that. It was so one sided it was unreal (which does make you appreciate the BBC, for all its faults).

 

[TFN]

I was on

I travelled out on the 09.01 from St Pancras to Brussels this morning. There were no covid related checks either at St Pancras or Brussels. Announcements were made stating it was compulsory to wear masks at stations and on board. However I would estimate less than a quarter of passengers did wear masks on the train. Announcements were also made that it was necessary to fill in a Belgian Passenger Locator form before arrival in Bxs. However, as stated, there were no checks. On talking to the crew it appears random checks are made at Midi.
I'm now on a train to Namur. Mask wearing is around 80%

I was on the exactly same train on you. I had my covid pass checked by Mitie staff at St Pancras, before reaching the UK desk. This was on the Business Premier lane though. Was my check just random?

 

[Peterthegreat]

I was on


I was on the exactly same train on you. I had my covid pass checked by Mitie staff at St Pancras, before reaching the UK desk. This was on the Business Premier lane though. Was my check just random?

I travelled BP too so either they 'forgot' me or it is random. I checked in around 07.45.

 

[nw1]

No that wasn't what I was saying (sorry if not clear!);

No worries!

 

[island]

As of today, many EU airlines have lifted blanket mask requirements and only require them on routes where the origin or destination country mandates them.

 

[Peterthegreat]

All references to masks appear to have been dropped from the Eurostar website.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As of today, many EU airlines have lifted blanket mask requirements and only require them on routes where the origin or destination country mandates them.

Which is still the majority of Europe.
Still required on flights to/from and domestic transport in FR/BE/NL/DE/AT/IT/ES/PT and others (not required domestically in FR from today).

 

[island]

Which is still the majority of Europe.
Still required on flights to/from and domestic transport in FR/BE/NL/DE/AT/IT/ES/PT and others (not required domestically in FR from today).

Not required on transport in France, nor on non-air transport in Netherlands.

British Airways, who fly to most countries in Europe, state that masks are required on board flights to AT DE ES GR IT MT NL PT and at the terminal but not on board for CY.

None are required for other European destinations, including but not limited to BG CH CZ DK IE FI HR HU LT LU LV NO SE SI SK.

So fortunately for the travelling public, it does not appear your assertion that it "is still the majority of Europe" that requires face masks is based in fact.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So fortunately for the travelling public, it does not appear your assertion that it "is still the majority of Europe" that requires face masks is based in fact.

Maybe the change in France has tipped the balance, but I reckon there are more EU flights from the UK with mask restrictions than not.
Including the umpteen ones to Mediterranean destinations.
I'm doing a trip through CH/FR/IT/AT/DE next month, and the last 3 all require (for now) FFP2 masks on public transport.

As an example of long-haul trips, my daughter has just booked a trip to Australia, and a mask is currently required from the point she boards KLM at Manchester until she leaves the airport in Sydney, including transit at Amsterdam and Singapore.
Major hubs are so far unwilling to ease their restrictions for transit passengers.

 

[Cdd89]

a mask is currently required from the point she boards KLM at Manchester

I read that KLM are not enforcing masks due to the unfairness of applying this only to air transport.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Current KLM rules:

On board you are required to wear a face mask, even if you have been vaccinated against or have recently tested negative for COVID-19. Without one, we cannot allow you to board. Whether you have to wear a mask at the airport differs per country. Please check the local rules of the airports in advance.

Current Schiphol rules:

Face masks will remain a common sight at Schiphol. It is mandatory to wear a face mask from the moment you scan your boarding pass until when you get on the plane. And upon leaving the aircraft, you must keep your face mask on until after you have passed through baggage reclaim. We recommend that you wear a face mask when queuing at busy locations. Face masks remain compulsory on the plane.

 

[island]

KLM have posted on their social media that mask wearing on their planes and at Dutch airports will be a personal choice from Saturday.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Slightly surprising that France has eased mask restrictions earlier than many European countries; at one point in autumn 2020 pregnant women were more or less compelled to wear masks during labour. Not many countries went that far. This was eased by November to being merely desirable rather than compulsory due to the backlash.

Still, it's to be welcomed. Mask rules have seemed to get stricter as you get further south in Europe (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece all mandated them everywhere outside if IIRC correctly), but Germany now seems an outlier to that. Mind you, Munich is closer to Milan than it is to Berlin.

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm doing a trip through CH/FR/IT/AT/DE next month, and the last 3 all require (for now) FFP2 masks on public transport.

In Germany, it depends on the federal state. In most states, a normal medical mask is enough.

 

[Howardh]

Just a quickie, dunno if this has already been posted but Spain has extended current protocols to June 15.

Adds - easyJet flight Manchester to Jersey, no masks required. On board staff were also mask free.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

KLM have posted on their social media that mask wearing on their planes and at Dutch airports will be a personal choice from Saturday.

From what I can make out, KLM has not enforced mask wearing since March 23, and the NL government will lift the restriction on May 21.
On the other hand reports also say masks will remain mandatory for routes where the destination requires it (IT, ES, GR etc).
That's something like the UK situation where masks are still required on some European routes.

Places like Schiphol and Singapore make their money from foreign transit passengers, so it's understandable they want to protect their domestic populations from that increased risk.

 

[VauxhallandI]

From what I can make out, KLM has not enforced mask wearing since March 23, and the NL government will lift the restriction on May 21.
On the other hand reports also say masks will remain mandatory for routes where the destination requires it (IT, ES, GR etc).
That's something like the UK situation where masks are still required on some European routes.

Places like Schiphol and Singapore make their money from foreign transit passengers, so it's understandable they want to protect their domestic populations from that increased risk.

Increased risk?

Foreign Covid?

 

[Bantamzen]

Increased risk?

Foreign Covid?

I was just about to make the same point. Why is covid still considered riskier in some countries and not others...??

 

[Eyersey468]

I was just about to make the same point. Why is covid still considered riskier in some countries and not others...??

Countries with lower vaccination rates or a high proportion of vulnerable people maybe?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Countries with lower vaccination rates or a high proportion of vulnerable people maybe?

Still don’t understand.

Even is country x for some reason where shipping aircraft full of “vulnerable” people how would this be an issue for Dutch people

I also thought we’d got over the fallacy that vaccination stops transmission

 

[Eyersey468]

Still don’t understand.

Even is country x for some reason where shipping aircraft full of “vulnerable” people how would this be an issue for Dutch people

I also thought we’d got over the fallacy that vaccination stops transmission

I agree with what you are saying, it shouldn't be an issue for the Dutch

 

[VauxhallandI]

I agree with what you are saying, it shouldn't be an issue for the Dutch

We really need to get rid of every trace of these restrictions from our minds eye; the stickers and announcements as well as the lingering rules.

The problem is no government or organisation are going to push for it as it shows that there may be a possibility that they shouldn't have done it or at least for as long as they did.

The hangover is that there were so many statements, proclamations and edicts out there under such fanfares that were not reversed with the same level of vigour. Therefore there is still great deal of misunderstandings out there and no-one is going to reverse the mind set for them. Therefore we have to remove every image that may re-enforce these poor sods who have been led down the garden path and don't have the capacity to change.

I watched a single person sat in a sports hall awards ceremony with several hundred people with his little blue mask on, taking it off for beer. How on earth did we get to the point where this person thinks this is anything bud stone cold insane?

 

[Eyersey468]

We really need to get rid of every trace of these restrictions from our minds eye; the stickers and announcements as well as the lingering rules.

The problem is no government or organisation are going to push for it as it shows that there may be a possibility that they shouldn't have done it or at least for as long as they did.

The hangover is that there were so many statements, proclamations and edicts out there under such fanfares that were not reversed with the same level of vigour. Therefore there is still great deal of misunderstandings out there and no-one is going to reverse the mind set for them. Therefore we have to remove every image that may re-enforce these poor sods who have been led down the garden path and don't have the capacity to change.

I watched a single person sat in a sports hall awards ceremony with several hundred people with his little blue mask on, taking it off for beer. How on earth did we get to the point where this person thinks this is anything bud stone cold insane?

I agree the sooner the better

 

[Cloud Strife]

Therefore there is still great deal of misunderstandings out there and no-one is going to reverse the mind set for them. Therefore we have to remove every image that may re-enforce these poor sods who have been led down the garden path and don't have the capacity to change.

I don't need you to decide for me, thanks.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I don't need you to decide for me, thanks.

Some people will always be off sync with reality.