Cricket

[SteveM70]

One thing that could be done straight away - stop releasing centrally contracted players to go and earn fortunes in the IPL. If they want to play the IPL, they can give up their central contracts and risk losing their England place.

Introduce DRS into county championship - I hate technology in cricket, as many county fans do, but there will be no getting rid of technology from Tests now sadly, so we need to have comparable conditions in the 1st division of the championship, with replays for run outs (not the traditional approach that it has to be run out by a long way to be given out) and reviews for decisions, plus checking of no balls, as we don't take such a rigorous approach to no balls in the domestic game (fine by me), but it gets us caught out in Tests when marginal no balls are now being called costing us key wickets

Really don't understand the argument. It would cost a fortune (and as a side effect put another nail in the coffin of outground cricket). If bowlers have a no ball problem, they immediately take their marker back 6 inches, and afterwards work on it in the nets. The presence of DRS in a county game wouldn't change the players' behaviour

English selectors to have control over availability of England pathway players and what role they are able to be used in for counties, e.g. he is an opener - if he's going to be at #6, he is not released for duty

Fine if they're paying the salary as well. Most county teams don't have massive first team squads these days, so if there are a spate of injuries and an opener needs to bat at 6, what possibly good does it do to prevent an England pathway player from playing and gaining experience?

 

[Class800]

I think the county game needs in general to be more oriented to serving the needs of England - that's probably the one thing we need overall, with young players' roles being as consistent as possible, extreme situations notwithstanding. Counties play salaries for most players, but the ECB provides funding to all counties, so should have influence. I don't like DRS, but if we play under different conditions at county and test level, it makes the step up so much harder. Would be interested if the same for all countries, or if some countries have DRS in domestic game. Of course, I would prefer no DRS in Tests, but there's no going back on that. Thing is our bowlers don't have a 'no ball problem' - it's just with the extreme scrutiny through numerous replays, sometimes the heel will be on the line not behind, whereas in county championship that is not a no ball, or is not going to be called as such. I don't see it as a no ball problem, but rather differences in playing conditions making that step up harder.

Some sad news from the youth world cup - Somerset prospect Sonny Baker who was tipped to lead the English bowling attack at the tournament is being sent home with a 'back stress injury' with travelling reserve Ben Cliff called up. Baker is a real prospect, but if this is a serious injury such as a stress fracture, it is concerning for his development.

 

[DelW]

Not wishing to be wise after the event but I did predict England would not make 200 before the series began on the forum here . I stand by my claim Root is overrated as a batsman

Unless I've misunderstood, you've lost - England scored over 200 in four of their ten innings, twice coming close to 300 (297 and 294).
I'm not saying that's good, but it's not as bad as you seem to be suggesting.

 

[Mikey C]

I think the county game needs in general to be more oriented to serving the needs of England - that's probably the one thing we need overall, with young players' roles being as consistent as possible, extreme situations notwithstanding. Counties play salaries for most players, but the ECB provides funding to all counties, so should have influence. I don't like DRS, but if we play under different conditions at county and test level, it makes the step up so much harder. Would be interested if the same for all countries, or if some countries have DRS in domestic game. Of course, I would prefer no DRS in Tests, but there's no going back on that. Thing is our bowlers don't have a 'no ball problem' - it's just with the extreme scrutiny through numerous replays, sometimes the heel will be on the line not behind, whereas in county championship that is not a no ball, or is not going to be called as such. I don't see it as a no ball problem, but rather differences in playing conditions making that step up harder.

Some sad news from the youth world cup - Somerset prospect Sonny Baker who was tipped to lead the English bowling attack at the tournament is being sent home with a 'back stress injury' with travelling reserve Ben Cliff called up. Baker is a real prospect, but if this is a serious injury such as a stress fracture, it is concerning for his development.

Cameron Green had stress fractures in his back, which he's come back from successfully, so hopefully it won't be a long term problem as he gets stronger

I agree with that.

How can we address the short-comings?

My views are controversial probably but I think (and I expect none of these will be done):

• No overseas players in English domestic cricket - I get the argument about raising standards but it mainly serves to give foreign players experience of our unique conditions, so it disadvantages the national side

I don't like the idea that for England to win at home (and this would only affect home tests) we have to drag the opposition down

I want to see a good England side beat good and well prepared visiting sides, not 3.5 day Tests of low quality

 

[Class800]

Until recently Australia never gave English players any chance to play in their domestic competitions - but that changed with the BBL - but it is still very rare for an Englishman to get a go in the Sheffield Shield. However, England has a long tradition of overseas players and it is likely to continue. If there is a legal way to do (and I don't know if there is), what ECB could look at is overseas players coming early in the same summer their country is touring.

Hopefully Baker can get stronger and overcome the back issues - Green has shown it is possible

 

[Mikey C]

Until recently Australia never gave English players any chance to play in their domestic competitions - but that changed with the BBL - but it is still very rare for an Englishman to get a go in the Sheffield Shield. However, England has a long tradition of overseas players and it is likely to continue. If there is a legal way to do (and I don't know if there is), what ECB could look at is overseas players coming early in the same summer their country is touring.

Hopefully Baker can get stronger and overcome the back issues - Green has shown it is possible

Lots of English players have benefited though from playing in Australia though, not at Sheffield level, but at a good enough standard to learn something

 

[43096]

Perhaps England should have called up Novak Djokovic? The Australians have difficulty getting him out.

Coat on...

 

[Class800]

A decent start to the youth world cup for England, bearing in mind that you can only play what is put in front of you. Bethell, Prest and George Thomas look good batting prospects, and Boyden an interesting left arm seamer

 

[SteveM70]

Absolute carnage in the big bash. Glenn Maxwell had one of those innings where everything went right and finished 154 not out off 64 balls, the highest score ever in the big bash, and Marcus Stoinis got 75 not out off 31. Melbourne Stars ended 273/2 off 20 overs which is the biggest score ever in franchise T20 cricket. And this was at the MCG, so a big ground with long boundaries.

I know its not test cricket, but its still amazing to watch

 

[Class800]

That is a huge score - I think the highest I have seen live in person in a ground is 224 or 225? For a T20. I do prefer white ball games now - especially as the red ball games at the highest level (Test) have lost their tradition in my view with things like shirt numbers, 3rd umpire replays, DRS etc.

 

[Class800]

Another good win for England in the Youth world cup quarter final today vs South Africa winning with a Luxton 6 is quite emphatic, with 6 wickets in hand and 18.4 overs left. However, as seen against Bangladesh earlier in the tournament, England lacked ruthlessness at key moments, which may be an issue in the semi or final. Brevis got 97 for South Africa and yet again the last wicket partnership wagged - neither the tail enders or the star batsman being targeted with a brutal bouncer or beamer at an opportune moment.

 

[PauloDavesi]

A shame "Class800" failed to mention the magnificent all round performance by Warwickshire's Jacob Bethell, who took 1 for 33 from his 7 overs before hitting a magnificent 88 of just 44 balls..

Also, bowling beamers is against the laws, and the spirit of the game.

 

[Busaholic]

- neither the tail enders or the star batsman being targeted with a brutal bouncer or beamer at an opportune moment.

'targeted with a beamer' ? Beamers are illegal deliveries, usually released accidentally, and are automatically called as 'no balls', the bowler receiving a verbal warning from the umpire. Repetition results in the bowler being banned from bowling for the rest of the match as a minimum, and has been known to be a career ender. If collusion was proved, sandpapergate would be small beer in comparison.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

'targeted with a beamer' ? Beamers are illegal deliveries, usually released accidentally, and are automatically called as 'no balls', the bowler receiving a verbal warning from the umpire. Repetition results in the bowler being banned from bowling for the rest of the match as a minimum, and has been known to be a career ender. If collusion was proved, sandpapergate would be small beer in comparison.

Those with long memories will remember Roy Gilchrist, one of the West Indian players who played in either the Central Lancashire League or the Lancashire League was not averse to hurling down beamers.

 

[Busaholic]

Those with long memories will remember Roy Gilchrist, one of the West Indian players who played in either the Central Lancashire League or the Lancashire League was not averse to hurling down beamers.

Three in a row, quite deliberately, in a match on the West Indies tour of India, despite his captain ordering him to desist after the first two balls. He was withdrawn from the match and tour and sent home in disgrace. He was only 5ft 8ins tall, but shorter fast bowlers can work over batsmen too. The 5ft 9ins Malcolm Marshall damaged more than Mike Gatting's confidence!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

England fall to a defeat in a high scoring international T20 match:-

West Indies 224-5 (20 overs)
Powell 107
Pooran 70

England 204-9 (20 overs)
Banton 73

 

[Class800]

One beamer at the #11 when he comes in might be considered an OK tactic - although it does cost a no ball. However, what I would prefer is instead proper use of bouncers, within the limits of number per over allowed in the format. But when the #11 comes in, why keep spin on and leak 40 runs, instead bring back pace and give him a nice welcome to the game bouncer first ball or second ball?

 

[birchesgreen]

I would have thought bowling at the stumps or the corridor of uncertainty would be better than trying to knock a number 11's head off.

 

[SteveM70]

One beamer at the #11 when he comes in might be considered an OK tactic

it’s unacceptable at any time in any game of cricket, at any batsman. If the umpire believed a beamer had been bowled deliberately the bowler would be banned from bowling immediately for the rest of the match and a report would go to the ECB, and the captain would be in just as much trouble as the bowler

 

[PauloDavesi]

Indeed, if considered to be deliberate, the umpire could consider it a "Level 4" offence and send the player off. consequences for the player and captain would be a lengthy suspension.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would have thought bowling at the stumps or the corridor of uncertainty would be better than trying to knock a number 11's head off.

Roy Gilchrist, who has been mentioned earlier, was a typical tail-end no 11 batsman (as many strike bowlers are when they bat) and fast bowler Peter Loader bowling for England in the 4th Test Match against the West Indies at Headingley in 1957 did exactly what you said above and clean bowled Gilchrist for a duck.

West Indies were all out for 142 in that first innings and Loader had figures of 6 for 36.

Those with long memories will remember Roy Gilchrist, one of the West Indian players who played in either the Central Lancashire League or the Lancashire League was not averse to hurling down beamers.

Just reminiscing as I eventually played for the Middleton 3rd XI and later the 2nd X| before studying at Manchester University noting that in 1958, Roy Gilchrist signed as professional for Middleton Cricket Club, who in those days were members of the Central Lancashire League. He inspired Middleton to two consecutive league titles and in his very first match, against Crompton, took 10 for 38, including a hat-trick.

The player as professional whose memory is best recalled at Middleton Cricket Club was Basil d'Oliveira, whose stroke play was a joy to watch.

 

[Busaholic]

The player as professional whose memory is best recalled at Middleton Cricket Club was Basil d'Oliveira, whose stroke play was a joy to watch.

I only recall seeing him bat once, when he was aged about 43 for Worcs in a one day cup final at Lords against my team, Kent. He'd injured a leg fielding and batted on one leg, from which he produced a range of sublime strokes. Everyone present, including Alan Knott and Derek Underwood, knew they were watching a master and Worcs proceeded to cruise to victory. Great, and very modest, man.

 

[Class800]

Torturous decision making about a run out in the Aus vs Pakistan game in the youth world cup. The batsman was well short but it was inconclusive if the ball hit the stumps from a direct hit before the keeper's gloves broke the stumps. Not out given. In a club game - and the players are mainly club and county equivalent 2nd XI players - that would surely have been given out, unless the square leg umpire was looking away at the time, looking at his laces, daydreaming, thinking about dinner - which are all possible! I don't like all this ultra scrutinising of decisions rather than giving it one way or the other on the field and moving on, but that's the modern game

 

[Mikey C]

Torturous decision making about a run out in the Aus vs Pakistan game in the youth world cup. The batsman was well short but it was inconclusive if the ball hit the stumps from a direct hit before the keeper's gloves broke the stumps. Not out given. In a club game - and the players are mainly club and county equivalent 2nd XI players - that would surely have been given out, unless the square leg umpire was looking away at the time, looking at his laces, daydreaming, thinking about dinner - which are all possible! I don't like all this ultra scrutinising of decisions rather than giving it one way or the other on the field and moving on, but that's the modern game

The difference is that with modern TV coverage, you can "prove" in most situations what the correct decision was, so any errors can be confirmed and become much harder to accept.

If I was run out 30 years ago, I might feel hard done by, but had no way of proving whether I was right or not.

 

[43096]

I see the England women's team are just as reliant on their skipper to bail them out in a Test match in Australia after a batting collapse as the men's side are. The difference is that Heather Knight has delivered, 127* overnight.

Today's useless stat is that she's one of only two English cricketers to have scored centuries in all three formats of international cricket (T20, ODI and Test). Jos Buttler is the other.

 

[High Dyke]

Cracking knock from Heather Knight, finishing 168* as Kate Cross gets out. England ended their first innings 40 runs behind.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cracking knock from Heather Knight, finishing 168* as Kate Cross gets out. England ended their first innings 40 runs behind.

A good start by the England bowlers, as Australia are 12-2 after 5 overs in their second innings. Both wickets claimed by Katherine Blunt who had a "5 for" in the Australian first innings.

******************************************************************************************************************************

There is definitely quite a match going on day 3 in a first class 4-day match in South Africa with both sides having very different fortunes.

Eastern Cape Linyathi (First Innings) ... 86 all out

Swanepoel with an amazing bowling return of 9.2 - 7 - 6 - 4

Northern Cape Heat (First Innings) ... 525 - 5 (declared)

Every batsman scored a 50, two going on to 100s

Eastern Cape Linyathi had already lost two second innings wickets in reply when I logged off with the news that two players would not bat being "absent ill".
At least they passed the 100 mark in this innings but at 168-8, their innings was over.

Again Swanepoel produced a good bowling spell in this second innings....20 - 11 - 22 - 4, giving a match return of 8 for 28.

 

[Whistler40145]

With the departure of Ashley Giles and Chris Silverwood following the disastrous results in the Ashes, who.do, you suggest as quality replacements?

 

[Busaholic]

With the departure of Ashley Giles and Chris Silverwood following the disastrous results in the Ashes, who.do, you suggest as quality replacements?

Justin Langer, as coach, as it seems the Aussies don't consider him good enough. Sir Alastair Cook as Head Selector.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

With the departure of Ashley Giles and Chris Silverwood following the disastrous results in the Ashes, who.do, you suggest as quality replacements?

Some guy named Justin Langer has become available.