Custom House DLR\Elizabeth Line Ticket Gateline

[lancededcena]

Sorry if this has been answered before!

Is there a reason why at Custom House there is two ticket gatelines, one for the DLR and one for the Elizabeth line when they are right next to each other, can't they move the gateline a little bit forward to serve the DLR?

I forgot to tap out of Custom House DLR (I tapped in at my starting DLR station but didn't tap out when changing for the Elizabeth line) but I tapped in at Custom House Elizabeth line as the Elizabeth line are gated and is on the first left up to the escalators, obviously, it had auto calculated that I was changing at Custom House for the Elizabeth Line but I am confused why we would technically have to tap out at Custom House DLR and tap in at Custom House Elizabeth, it surely should be all within the gateline.

I know stations like Lewisham also require two taps to change but Custom House DLR is literally next door to Custom House Elizabeth!

 

[miklcct]

I am confused why we would technically have to tap out at Custom House DLR and tap in at Custom House Elizabeth, it surely should be all within the gateline.

You shouldn't touch out if you are changing trains within a station.

In this case, the Elizabeth line gateline is set to have continuation entry as you have to pass through it to access the platform even if you are already inside the system.

 

[MikeWh]

Sorry if this has been answered before!

Is there a reason why at Custom House there is two ticket gatelines, one for the DLR and one for the Elizabeth line when they are right next to each other, can't they move the gateline a little bit forward to serve the DLR?

I forgot to tap out of Custom House DLR (I tapped in at my starting DLR station but didn't tap out when changing for the Elizabeth line) but I tapped in at Custom House Elizabeth line as the Elizabeth line are gated and is on the first left up to the escalators, obviously, it had auto calculated that I was changing at Custom House for the Elizabeth Line but I am confused why we would technically have to tap out at Custom House DLR and tap in at Custom House Elizabeth, it surely should be all within the gateline.

I know stations like Lewisham also require two taps to change but Custom House DLR is literally next door to Custom House Elizabeth!

Custom House DLR, like almost all DLR stations, is completely open. There are validators at all normal entrance/exit points. Then along came the Elizabeth line which is very much a closed system with all stations gated. Someone decided it would be a brilliant idea to build a set of new escalators up from the DLR platforms to the side entrance for the new EL station. Unfortunately they forgot that this would mean people would no longer pass a set of validators to exit the DLR before using the gates to enter the EL.

You shouldn't touch out if you are changing trains within a station.

But Custom House is two adjacent stations so you need to touch out and in again.

In this case, the Elizabeth line gateline is set to have continuation entry as you have to pass through it to access the platform even if you are already inside the system.

It's a bit of a fudge which isn't properly a continuation entry, though it will normally work to ensure the right fare is paid. The bigger problem is the other way (EL-DLR). There are plans to install validators at the top of the new escalators as a priority.

If they had wanted to gate the whole Custom House station they would have needed to significantly increase staffing and/or possibly alter normal pedestrian access to the ExCel centre.

 

[purple-Azumas]

In this case, the Elizabeth line gateline is set to have continuation entry as you have to pass through it to access the platform even if you are already inside the system.

This didn't work for me yesterday. Was travelling Gallions Rach - Edgware (via Custom House and Liverpool St/Moorgate) and have been charged an Incomplete journey from Gallions Reach and then a single Custom House (Elizabeth Line) to Edgware. Was going to touch the freestanding readers at Custom House but they had a sheet of paper on saying not to use them if trying to access the Eliabeth Line so went for a gateline instead.

Has anyone else been caught out recently? I realised there had been a problem with this in the past, but would have thought it would be fixed by now.

 

[MikeWh]

This didn't work for me yesterday. Was travelling Gallions Rach - Edgware (via Custom House and Liverpool St/Moorgate) and have been charged an Incomplete journey from Gallions Reach and then a single Custom House (Elizabeth Line) to Edgware. Was going to touch the freestanding readers at Custom House but they had a sheet of paper on saying not to use them if trying to access the Eliabeth Line so went for a gateline instead.

Has anyone else been caught out recently? I realised there had been a problem with this in the past, but would have thought it would be fixed by now.

Which gateline did you touch in to the Elizabeth line station? (a) at the top of the escalators direct from the DLR platforms, or (b) the main gateline.

 

[purple-Azumas]

Which gateline did you touch in to the Elizabeth line station? (a) at the top of the escalators direct from the DLR platforms, or (b) the main gateline.

Option (a) - the one direct from the DLR.

 

[MikeWh]

Option (a) - the one direct from the DLR.

OK. Annoyingly I haven't kept the journey history from when I tried that. I do remember that the journey descriptions looked funny but the overall charge was correct. Have you checked journey history online today? Can you also tell me where the validators were with the signs saying not to touch if going to the Elizabeth line?

 

[Lifelong]

OK. Annoyingly I haven't kept the journey history from when I tried that. I do remember that the journey descriptions looked funny but the overall charge was correct. Have you checked journey history online today? Can you also tell me where the validators were with the signs saying not to touch if going to the Elizabeth line?

Is this actually going to ever get sorted out? Given how long there was to prep for opening, it's a very frustrating situation at CH (in particular having to walk around the whole station to get from EL to DLR) rather than the obvious gateline. To partially answer the question, there is at least one sign as you go down towards the DLR from the Excel entrance - I suspect there might be others

 

[MikeWh]

To partially answer the question, there is at least one sign as you go down towards the DLR from the Excel entrance - I suspect there might be others

Oh my goodness, that's absurd. I know why they're saying that, but it makes things worse if you've come from the DLR. They want to stop people coming from the Excel touching in on the DLR before then touching in at the EL.

This whole thing is a shambles because the designer of the station didn't realise the charging implications.

 

[purple-Azumas]

Have you checked journey history online today?

Journey history still not right. Only thing I can think of making a difference is that I've got a 16+ Zip Oyster. I've just had a look as travelled with dad (Contactless) and brother (11-15) and got 3 different results:

• Me (16+ Zip) - Incomplete Journey from Gallions Reach. Charged £3 incomplete journey and £1.70 Custom House (Liz) - Edgware. Should just be £1.70 for Gallions Reach - Edgware.
• Brother (11-15 Zip) - Incomplete Journey from Gallions Reach. Charged 80p incomplete journey. Had already reached daily cap so Gallions Reach - Edgware should have been completely free (Custom House - Edgware was free)
• Dad (Contactless) - Autocompleted journey from Gallions Reach to Custom House (Liz). Charged £1.70 Gallions Reach - Custom House (Liz) then another £3.40 Custom House (Liz) to Edgware. Should be £3.40 for the whole journey.

All touched 'in' within 60 seconds of each other.

Can you also tell me where the validators were with the signs saying not to touch if going to the Elizabeth line?

Went up the escalators at Custom House DLR and the validators were then directly behind me. Had to do a U-turn to get to the validators, then turned back round when I saw the signs and headed to the 'back' gateline.

The signs themselves are nothing special, just some black text on paper (no TfL branding) basically saying 'don't touch here if you want the Elizabeth Line', which I assumed also applied if you were changing. They were on the side of one validator, and I think on the front of the other. Even asked the man on the gateline whether this was the right gateline for the Elizabeth Line if I'd come from the DLR and he gave a vague nod of the head and I went through.

 

[MikeWh]

Journey history still not right. Only thing I can think of making a difference is that I've got a 16+ Zip Oyster. I've just had a look as travelled with dad (Contactless) and brother (11-15) and got 3 different results:

• Me (16+ Zip) - Incomplete Journey from Gallions Reach. Charged £3 incomplete journey and £1.70 Custom House (Liz) - Edgware. Should just be £1.70 for Gallions Reach - Edgware.
• Brother (11-15 Zip) - Incomplete Journey from Gallions Reach. Charged 80p incomplete journey. Had already reached daily cap so Gallions Reach - Edgware should have been completely free (Custom House - Edgware was free)
• Dad (Contactless) - Autocompleted journey from Gallions Reach to Custom House (Liz). Charged £1.70 Gallions Reach - Custom House (Liz) then another £3.40 Custom House (Liz) to Edgware. Should be £3.40 for the whole journey.

All touched 'in' within 60 seconds of each other.

Thanks for this. All three cards need to have the extra journeys refunded. There shouldn't be any problem doing this. Your Dad will have to ask for your brothers, and also for yours if he was the person who ordered your card (likely if you're not over 18).

Went up the escalators at Custom House DLR and the validators were then directly behind me. Had to do a U-turn to get to the validators, then turned back round when I saw the signs and headed to the 'back' gateline.

The signs themselves are nothing special, just some black text on paper (no TfL branding) basically saying 'don't touch here if you want the Elizabeth Line', which I assumed also applied if you were changing. They were on the side of one validator, and I think on the front of the other. Even asked the man on the gateline whether this was the right gateline for the Elizabeth Line if I'd come from the DLR and he gave a vague nod of the head and I went through.

I've seen the signs you mention this evening and I've put in a request for clarification with my contact at TfL. I'm not sure that the senior people at TfL will be that happy with those signs so hopefully something will be done. I also noticed that all the gates into the side entrance to the EL are set to entry and there's a big NO EXIT sign above them forcing people off the EL to use the main entrance.

I'll be writing a story on my site once I've heard from TfL.

 

[zero]

I would have thought there is a simple fix, entering Customs House Crossrail should just automatically end any open journey with a destination of Customs House DLR (as long as it falls within max journey time) and OSI it to the Crossrail entry.

Isn't that how it works at Wimbledon tram platform validator?

In the other direction it's more complicated but at least a sign would be less confusing - "Continuing on the DLR? You must touch in here"

 

[Lifelong]

Thanks for this. All three cards need to have the extra journeys refunded. There shouldn't be any problem doing this. Your Dad will have to ask for your brothers, and also for yours if he was the person who ordered your card (likely if you're not over 18).

I've seen the signs you mention this evening and I've put in a request for clarification with my contact at TfL. I'm not sure that the senior people at TfL will be that happy with those signs so hopefully something will be done. I also noticed that all the gates into the side entrance to the EL are set to entry and there's a big NO EXIT sign above them forcing people off the EL to use the main entrance.

I'll be writing a story on my site once I've heard from TfL.

I think the signs are the station staff's attempt to help, and that they should be applauded for at least trying. The fact that, as you say, interchange from EL to DLR isn't possible via the most direct route is just wrong. Ultimately there was years to sort this and we have an extremely village scenario at CH.

 

[MikeWh]

I would have thought there is a simple fix, entering Customs House Crossrail should just automatically end any open journey with a destination of Customs House DLR (as long as it falls within max journey time) and OSI it to the Crossrail entry.

Isn't that how it works at Wimbledon tram platform validator?

Yes it is, and I've made the suggestion to TfL.

In the other direction it's more complicated but at least a sign would be less confusing - "Continuing on the DLR? You must touch in here"

Hopefully there will be such a sign when they install validators at the top of the escalators. At the moment the sign would have to direct you well away from your route.

I think the signs are the station staff's attempt to help, and that they should be applauded for at least trying. The fact that, as you say, interchange from EL to DLR isn't possible via the most direct route is just wrong. Ultimately there was years to sort this and we have an extremely village scenario at CH.

Trouble is, they've made the situation worse.

 

[Lifelong]

On a more practical level I’m trying to work out whether I’ve been charged correctly for a journey I do regularly…Gallions Reach to CH via DLR and then Elizabeth line to Farringdon and finally circle to Kings Cross. What should that be (before and after 9.30) on Oyster? Many thanks

 

[Watershed]

On a more practical level I’m trying to work out whether I’ve been charged correctly for a journey I do regularly…Gallions Reach to CH via DLR and then Elizabeth line to Farringdon and finally circle to Kings Cross. What should that be (before and after 9.30) on Oyster? Many thanks

£3.60 / £2.90 respectively (assuming no Railcards). If you're being charged more than that, the OSI at Custom House hasn't worked correctly.

 

[Lifelong]

£3.60 / £2.90 respectively (assuming no Railcards). If you're being charged more than that, the OSI at Custom House hasn't worked correctly.

Thank you

 

[MikeWh]

Thank you

Were you being charged correctly?

 

[Lifelong]

Were you being charged correctly?

I've checked now and I think I was. I'm going to check more carefully going forward, and hope that the overall situation there resolves itself asap...

 

[MikeWh]

I've checked now and I think I was. I'm going to check more carefully going forward, and hope that the overall situation there resolves itself asap...

Thanks for coming back. I was there again this morning (after Bond Street). The confusing signs on the nearest validators to the escalators are still there. The guy on the EL side of the side gateline was quite exasperated by it all.

 

[Montel Osman]

Hi all, I’ve noticed some weird charges when travelling from Custom House EL to the DLR. please correct me if I’m wrong but from my understanding it’s an OSI so I shouldn’t be charged differently. Basically I travel between East India and Moorgate and go via Customs house to avoid bank.

I’ve noticed on some journeys I’ve been charged the normal 3.20 and others I’ve been charged 3.60.

On contactless I always get charged 3.20 both ways which is correct, however, on Oyster I’ve noticed that I normally get charged 3.60, primarily on the return journey back to East India. Why is this the case for Oyster but not Contactless? It kind of makes sense as zone 1 to 3 is 3.60 but it’s an OSI and my final journey is at East India.

I’ve also noticed that the side where there aren’t any validators, contactless will automatically correct the missing tap in/out but Oyster won’t? I made this mistake once but have my refund now so I’m curious why this is the case.

And finally, I’m going to attach two screenshots of me going from East India to Stratford and return. On the outward journey, I went purely by the DLR and jubilee and was charged 1.05 (as I have my railcard attached)

For the same journey, but on the return via EL (wanted to experience the through running) I was charged 1.15.

I’m not bothered by the 10p but it’s interesting how Oyster has so many weird different quirks. Does anyone have an explanation for this? I have a feeling it’s probably related to the border 2/3 zones but hopefully someone can elaborate on this.

Apologies for the long post but appreciate anyone taking their time to read it!

 

[Adoarable]

Oyster and Contactless are actually two separate systems running in parallel. The Oyster system calculates fares in real-time, deducting the maximum fare from your card as soon as you tap in, and then refunding the difference when you tap out. The Contactless system, however, is all processed in the back office. This means that all of your day's taps are recorded, and then at the end of the day the back office works out how much you should have paid and charges that amount to your card. The differences between the two systems explain the discrepancies, as follows:

Regarding the journey from Moorgate to East India via Custom House, when you use Contactless the back office calculates you made a journey from Z1-2 and charges you £3.20. With Oyster though when you tap out at Custom House the £3.60 (for a Z1-3 fare) is immediately deducted from your Oyster card. There is no mechanism for the 40p difference to be refunded when you use the OSI to tap in and go back to a Zone 2 station.*

I'm guessing the difference between the two systems also explains why Contactless missing taps are resolved easier than Oyster missing taps.

For your journey from Stratford to East India, I'll assume you also went via Custom House (you don't seem to have attached the correct screenshot). If so, this will be the same problem as above - the fare from Stratford to Custom House is £1.15 and Oyster has no mechanism for refunding a previously completed fare.

* Actually, there is a back-office system that detects problems like this where you have been overcharged for using Oyster instead of contactless and refunds you the difference. The problem is that this system doesn't work for railcard-enabled Oyster cards like yours, so this refund is not available to you.

 

[Taunton]

The position at Custom House not only looks like it was designed by the most junior intern, but a seeming range of alterations since the Elizabeth opened (when on opening day they had staff at the direct gateline between the two telling you not to use it) have just compounded things.

It also seems not recognised that from Central London to stations in Zone 2 on the DLR, like Blackwall, or Canning Town itself, the most effective route from the Elizabeth is via Custom House, and then come back. Actually the most effective route between London City Airport and Heathrow Airport, surely not an inconsequential flow, is bizarrely DLR to Canning Town, then DLR back to Custom House, then Elizabeth Line onwards. I haven't tried it yet to see what the charging makes of it.

 

[hkstudent]

The position at Custom House not only looks like it was designed by the most junior intern, but a seeming range of alterations since the Elizabeth opened (when on opening day they had staff at the direct gateline between the two telling you not to use it) have just compounded things.

It also seems not recognised that from Central London to stations in Zone 2 on the DLR, like Blackwall, or Canning Town itself, the most effective route from the Elizabeth is via Custom House, and then come back. Actually the most effective route between London City Airport and Heathrow Airport, surely not an inconsequential flow, is bizarrely DLR to Canning Town, then DLR back to Custom House, then Elizabeth Line onwards. I haven't tried it yet to see what the charging makes of it.

That's seems not really the case.
The quickest way is actually changing at Poplar for Canary Wharf EL, or at Stratford if from City Airport.

 

[Taunton]

It's a substantial and windswept dogleg walk between Poplar and Canary Wharf EL, as well as some considerable mountaineering from the Elizabeth's depths to the Poplar footbridge height. Good luck if travelling with luggage.

 

[purple-Azumas]

Thanks for this. All three cards need to have the extra journeys refunded. There shouldn't be any problem doing this. Your Dad will have to ask for your brothers, and also for yours if he was the person who ordered your card (likely if you're not over 18).

Thanks Mike. We all phoned up TfL and I filled in the complaints form on the website too. After a fair few phone calls, we were able to get most of the 'Incomplete' journeys refunded (for mine they insisted on charging Gallions Reach - CH and CH - Edgware. I then got a response to the complaint telling me that they would refund the whole of the day's travel on my 16+ Zip (which happened to be quite substantial) so we've now got everything back we were overcharged and a little bit more too.

Interesting having a read of your article (https://oysterfares.com/elizabeth-line-updates-interchanging-and-farringdon-custom-house/) too - by the sounds of it the new signs by the validators closest to the Excel wouldn't be much help to me, but the hidden ones were the ones I was after! Either we, we live and learn and fingers crossed it gets sorted sooner rather than later to save others having to go through the same faff.

 

[MikeWh]

Glad you got it sorted. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[SammyJ]

Sorry to bump this but I will be making the journey from Farringdon to Prince Regent (via Custom House Elizabeth Line) next week

Can anyone advise where I need to tap to interchange from Elizabeth Line to DLR?

 

[MikeWh]

Exit the EL station via main entrance gates (the side entrance is no exit AFAIK), turn left and then use any validator before descending to the DLR platform. I've drawn a diagram on my site: https://oysterfares.com/elizabeth-line-updates-interchanging-and-farringdon-custom-house/

 

[Taunton]

If you are EL to DLR, you have to go out of the main gates and back into the DLR, passing the validator. It's the other way round that is an issue, DLR to EL, where you go straight up the escalator from the platform (up only) and into the EL through its substantial side gates without passing any DLR validator.

Quite a while back this seemed resolved, with a tap in to the EL at those gates with an open DLR tap in getting auto-completed.

However, in the last week a new large board has appeared on the DLR platform at the escalators, written in best legalise, saying that if you don't tap out from the DLR you may (their words) get some sort of incorrect fare charged (their words). Of course, having advised this, there is no DLR validator to tap out on, and the signage at the top of the escalator still merrily points you to the EL gates. I don't know if some further issue has been discovered with the auto complete, but there seems no reason for the new board. I just passed it an hour ago, I should have taken a photo of its mumbo-jumbo.