Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

[CarrotPie]

To be fair although the late announcement of platforms contributes to the size of the rush, there will always be a rush. Even at underground stations where the next service is minutes away you get a massive rush for the trains and epople running.

But these "epople" that you speak of don't care so much about getting a seat on the Underground, because there aren't many and their journeys are short enough that they are happy to stand. This is not so on AWC, where journeys are very long and epople have reserved seats in advance.

 

[island]

It could be, depending on the circumstances.



You haven't, simply that a wilful or negligent action could be reasonably foreseen to discriminate and that a reasonable adjustment (such as displaying the platform on screens and announcing it at the same time) was possible.

I think you're in a minority of one with that opinion.

 

[Benjwri]

But these "epople" that you speak of don't care so much about getting a seat on the Underground, because there aren't many and their journeys are short enough that they are happy to stand. This is not so on AWC, where journeys are very long and epople have reserved seats in advance.

Don’t really appreciate you making fun of a simple typo tbh, especially when I am currently struggling to do so accurately following a surgery. I was just making a point and it doesn’t deserve to be met in such a way even if you don’t agree with it.

I agree getting a seat does play a role, although if anything reservations should have the opposite effect on a rush. My point was to illustrate that not matter what you do people are still going to rush, because they will always find a reason.

 

[CarrotPie]

I agree getting a seat does play a role, although if anything reservations should have the opposite effect on a rush.

I agree, but if there's a good chance that someone else might sit in your reserved seat for you 4-hour journey to Scotland, you're understandably going to want to get there early.

My point was to illustrate that not matter what you do people are still going to rush, because they will always find a reason.

That is true, but people will rush more under certain circumstances.

 

[renegademaster]

It could be, depending on the circumstances.



You haven't, simply that a wilful or negligent action could be reasonably foreseen to discriminate and that a reasonable adjustment (such as displaying the platform on screens and announcing it at the same time) was possible.

That's not Avanti's role at Euston. They do not determine when platforms are shown on the boards. I don't think having extra features that can only be accessed via phone has ever been ruled as discrimination either. Otherwise every bank ever would be sued

 

[Falcon1200]

That's not Avanti's role at Euston. They do not determine when platforms are shown on the boards.

At major stations like Euston are trains not advertised only when the Train Operator confirms they are ready for boarding?

 

[chris.lambert.]

Is this not the same as other London terminals such as Paddington, where you have express services announced less than 10 minutes until departure.

Can one still wait on the pedestrian bridge half way down the platforms - as I did when I commited to Paddington? In those days a buffet car supplies trolley would turn up as the train was being prepared ... with the departure time & destination clearly visible on the cooler boxes, written in big letters with black felt tip

 

[Peter0124]

What kind of deterrent should we have for people knowingly and wilfully sitting in someone else's reserved seat and refusing to move? Penalty fares?

Especially on long distance operators like AWC.

I reserved seats on a train but was still one of the first people at the queue at Euston, partially because I'm afraid of such situation happening, as there's annoyingly few table seats on Pendolinos and my laptop is too big for the airliner pull-down table.

 

[island]

What kind of deterrent should we have for people knowingly and wilfully sitting in someone else's reserved seat and refusing to move? Penalty fares?

Especially on long distance operators like AWC.

I reserved seats on a train but was still one of the first people at the queue at Euston, partially because I'm afraid of such situation happening, as there's annoyingly few table seats on Pendolinos.

In theory someone sitting in a seat that's marked reserved for someone else can be prosecuted under the Railway Byelaws, though I've not heard of this happening.

 

[renegademaster]

At major stations like Euston are trains not advertised only when the Train Operator confirms they are ready for boarding?

Quiter terminals including them served by avanti dont supress departures even when trains arent unlocked and some non avanti terminals have the same policy to hide them to the last minute. The Avanti traincrew might have to give a train ready signal but i think it must be Network Rail decision not to tell people the platforms

 

[CarrotPie]

What kind of deterrent should we have for people knowingly and wilfully sitting in someone else's reserved seat and refusing to move? Penalty fares?

Electricity!

 

[Falcon1200]

The Avanti traincrew might have to give a train ready signal but i think it must be Network Rail decision not to tell people the platforms

One would have to ask; Why? Once a train has been declared ready for boarding what possible reason could there be for not advertising it immediately?

 

[hkstudent]

It’s even starting get short videos on Instagram about the running issue in Euston

Great Londoner Memes on Instagram: "Euston station is like hell FOLLOW @greatlondonermemes for more memes (Via TT/caaraa8) Tags - - - #memes #ukmemes #britishmemes #greatbritishmemes #funny #british #london #londonlife #londonmemes"

35K likes, 1,015 comments - greatlondonermemesJanuary 4, 2024 on : "Euston station is like hell FOLLOW @greatlondonermemes for more memes (Via TT/caaraa8) Tags - - - #memes #ukmemes #britishmemes ..."

www.instagram.com

 

[jon0844]

It’s even starting get short videos on Instagram about the running issue in Euston

Great Londoner Memes on Instagram: "Euston station is like hell FOLLOW @greatlondonermemes for more memes (Via TT/caaraa8) Tags - - - #memes #ukmemes #britishmemes #greatbritishmemes #funny #british #london #londonlife #londonmemes"

35K likes, 1,015 comments - greatlondonermemesJanuary 4, 2024 on : "Euston station is like hell FOLLOW @greatlondonermemes for more memes (Via TT/caaraa8) Tags - - - #memes #ukmemes #britishmemes ..."

www.instagram.com

Comments show that people fear not getting their seat reservation, including comments about reservations often being cancelled so you have to be quick, and the lack of luggage space.

So in effect, the rush is unavoidable because people are always going to fight to be first. If they were allowed on the platform earlier, there would still be a scrum to get on - although it would be spread out more.

This tells me the service needs to be reliable enough that seat reservations are protected and enforced, and as for luggage - well that's a bigger problem. I did say before that one way to solve that is to introduce restrictions or charges for extra large or multiple bags, but that wouldn't be popular and would also need enforcement.

IC services all over the country will have similar issues with boarding and Euston is clearly worse because of its layout, but solving the problem isn't clear cut.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

One would have to ask; Why? Once a train has been declared ready for boarding what possible reason could there be for not advertising it immediately?

Train faults or bio-hazard are 2 I've had where I wish the platform hadn't been announced. Having a hundred people trying to open the doors and having a scrum around you for information is not pleasant when trying to get the train ready for them. Patience seems rare these days.

Similarly, when a train is going out of service (New St in particular), people will pile onto the train despite announcements on train and on platform stating its not for public use. Can easily cause a 10 minute delay to services.

 

[NLC1072]

It could be, depending on the circumstances.



You haven't, simply that a wilful or negligent action could be reasonably foreseen to discriminate and that a reasonable adjustment (such as displaying the platform on screens and announcing it at the same time) was possible.

No, it's really not. There is no ban on the use of technology to any demographic. You'd get thrown of of the solicitors before you got a chance to get thrown out of court.

 

[Skie]

Train faults or bio-hazard are 2 I've had where I wish the platform hadn't been announced. Having a hundred people trying to open the doors and having a scrum around you for information is not pleasant when trying to get the train ready for them. Patience seems rare these days.

Similarly, when a train is going out of service (New St in particular), people will pile onto the train despite announcements on train and on platform stating its not for public use. Can easily cause a 10 minute delay to services.

But conversely at stations like Lime Street and Picadilly, passengers are able to wait on the platforms and don't cause an issue. If the staff don't want you on, they lock the doors until they're ready, and the platforms are temporarily gated until the train is empty and the doors locked, then people are allowed to filter back onto the platform and take a seat opposite their booked carriage. Theres a sensible middle ground that Euston management seem unwilling to consider, and it will lead to an injury, or worse, unfortunately.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IC services all over the country will have similar issues with boarding and Euston is clearly worse because of its layout, but solving the problem isn't clear cut.

It's totally clear cut, demonstrated by almost every station in the country that isn't a London terminal (or a small number of Scottish stations) and doesn't engage in this ludicrous practice.

 

[Reliablebeam]

I've had to use Euston and Avanti a few times recently, including a trip to north Wales during the Day of Doom just before Christmas. The procedures for boarding are appalling, and I vividly remember discussing with a fellow passenger (who I suspect may be a member of our forum..) that unless you know how to use Realtimetrains and OpenTrainTimes you are screwed in terms of getting a seat and comfortable journey. The best spectacle is the staff trying to chase/intimidate you back to the new flashy screens they have - "No it won't be this one mate"

I have to travel north with work at the end of this month. I'm seriously considering a domestic flight, I've had enough of this. I haven't had a single journey on the WCML that's gone smoothly post pandemic, and as for going through Birmingham with the Pit of the Abyss known as Crosscountry....no. I can get more work done paying the upgrade to club and sitting in the Galleries lounge.

On a side note my journey back from north Wales a few days ago was the first time I seriously considered dialling 61016 (!)

 

[Facing Back]

IC services all over the country will have similar issues with boarding and Euston is clearly worse because of its layout, but solving the problem isn't clear cut.

I'm not sure that is true. My local station - Manchester Picadilly frequently has 2 active trains on the same platform and doesn't suffer from this. Admittedly the long ramp down to the platform is quite unique to Euston but New Street has invisible platforms too

 

[Horizon22]

Can I refer you back to Post 197 and the following discussion, please, which clarifies exactly what Avanti are doing which is slightly separate from general platform suppression?

Personally I think that's actually more likely to be false advertising as there are likely to be other ways to find out "before anyone else" so its both a) false and b) stupid, because it can be seen as giving preferential treatment on the most basic of issues.

IC services all over the country will have similar issues with boarding and Euston is clearly worse because of its layout, but solving the problem isn't clear cut.

Not to the same extent; Paddington occasionally gets brought up here, but even that is not anywhere near the same degree.

 

[OscarH]

Not to the same extent; Paddington occasionally gets brought up here, but even that is not anywhere near the same degree.

I think the next closest after Euston is probably St Pancras EMR

 

[jon0844]

Not to the same extent; Paddington occasionally gets brought up here, but even that is not anywhere near the same degree.

I said similar, but having people either on the platform and spread out, or given earlier access before the train is ready for boarding mitigates things a little as there's no surge into the platform - but people are still trying to board quickly because of a fear of not getting their seat or struggling to store their luggage.

 

[Horizon22]

I think the next closest after Euston is probably St Pancras EMR

That's just generally because it's a small area and can get very crowded no?

 

[OscarH]

That's just generally because it's a small area and can get very crowded no?

I thought I recalled a lot of very late platform announcing/unlocking the gateline there too

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought I recalled a lot of very late platform announcing/unlocking the gateline there too

There is, but the rush isn't the same as the distances are shorter.

 

[Boodiggy]

At major stations like Euston are trains not advertised only when the Train Operator confirms they are ready for boarding?

Yes at Euston AWC trains are boarding when the TOC gives the ok.

But conversely at stations like Lime Street and Picadilly, passengers are able to wait on the platforms and don't cause an issue. If the staff don't want you on, they lock the doors until they're ready, and the platforms are temporarily gated until the train is empty and the doors locked, then people are allowed to filter back onto the platform and take a seat opposite their booked carriage. Theres a sensible middle ground that Euston management seem unwilling to consider, and it will lead to an injury, or worse, unfortunately.

At Lime St and Picc is easier to see what platform your train is going from. Plus for long distance its only AWC from both of those stations that have ‘intercity’ length trains.
Very different at Euston and the comments are not correct about the management. A lot goes in to trying to manage the crowding and how this is done when there are simultaneous arrivals and departures from opposite platforms. The capacity of Euston concourse is only about 1.5 or 2 Pendolinos so when it is flowing the issues are not as bad. It is a small station compared to some others and serves far more cities compared to other routes. The fact people like to rush for trains and create a stampede is not easy to manage. There are clearly things that need to improve (including the 3rd Brum and 2nd scouse services) but it is not through a lack of mitigations bring in place. Let’s see what is improved over the next few months.

 

[Meerkat]

Has anyone tried to get an official answer as to why Euston operates like this, and whose decision that is?
An MP or passenger group for example…..someone who has to be given a good answer.

 

[Jimini]

Good example of bad practice at Euston witnessed this Tuesday just gone. Was waiting for the (delayed) 1910 to Birmingham on P4, not advertised on the boards but a group of about 20 of us congregated on the ramp, presumably the others had the likes of RTT etc. to hand as well.

On P5, the 1907 to Liverpool was only advertised about five mins before its scheduled departure time -- once it finally appeared on the boards, it stated "platform closing in 00:45" and the countdown immediately began. That's one hell of a way to panic 200+ people into running down the ramps and along the platform!!

 

[Peter0124]

Good example of bad practice at Euston witnessed this Tuesday just gone. Was waiting for the (delayed) 1910 to Birmingham on P4, not advertised on the boards but a group of about 20 of us congregated on the ramp, presumably the others had the likes of RTT etc. to hand as well.

On P5, the 1907 to Liverpool was only advertised about five mins before its scheduled departure time -- once it finally appeared on the boards, it stated "platform closing in 00:45" and the countdown immediately began. That's one hell of a way to panic 200+ people into running down the ramps and along the platform!!

Your train was on P4 since 18:38, the Liv inbound arrived into P5 18:53, so quick turnaround for the Liverpool train which left 4m late.

Surprisingly yours left 40m late. Even behind the 19:40 to Birmingham which used P5 aswell after the Liverpool left!!