RedPostJunc
Member
Thank you. Does the fact that it has been renumbered mean it will be ready for action soon?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
DB HTE Class 66s
- Thread starter Rail Quest
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Adrian Barr
Member
66658, like the other 66/6s, did a light engine test run from Toton to Doncaster and back (0E23 / 0Z54) on 12th December, which suggests the conversion work is basically complete.
Looking at the recent history of 66147 (including pictures on flickr) before conversion, I think it's been out of traffic at Toton since December 2021. While at Toton, it was repainted into DB red by June 2022.
66658 is currently being used as a "pilot" at Toton, shunting the infrastructure yard at Sandiacre adjacent to the TMD, which could be a way of "bedding in" the loco (especially after three years out of traffic) before putting it to work on the main line.
Rail Quest
Member
Thanks I have updated the table. Has one of the original locos earmarked for conversion been removed from the program? 147 wasn't on the original lists and 161 171, 181 are the remaining locos
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 16,703
There are now numbers reserved up to 66665, which might indicate an additional five conversions.
Bobcp
Member
66656, 66658 & 66659 all outside and viewable from the bank at Toton earlier today.
Rail Quest
Member
Awesome, does anyone know what 659 was converted from?
Rumours of 66171
DBS92042
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 1,474
Yep and 66660 is ex-66161
Rail Quest
Member
Awesome thanks both
Adrian Barr
Member
66659 has been on a test run from Toton to Doncaster and back today (0E23 / 0F54). It's likely to appear on the Boston steel working (6E02 / 6M07) tomorrow.
N.B. 0E23 is the regular daily (SX) 08:40 Toton TMD to Doncaster Belmont loco move; the booked return working is 0M22 13:09 Doncaster Belmont - Toton TMD, but it often runs an hour or so early as 0F54. These workings run as required and are used for moving DB locos (and also GBRF 60s) to and from Toton for maintenance, and make a convenient light engine test run for the 66/6s after conversion.
66658 remains on yard pilot duties at Toton (see post #92) but has done a couple more test runs. It ran to Doncaster and back as 6E23 / 0F54 on 14th Jan.
6E23 was a light engine move (66658 hauling 66118, 66055, 66077, 66140, 60087) but ran as a class 6 due to rules about the maximum number of locos on a regular class 0 move (5 in England and Wales, 2 in Scotland). In the past, these kinds of moves have run with X headcodes, such as this working with 9 locos in 2013.
66658 did another trip to Doncaster and back as 0E23 / 0F54 on 15th Jan. 0F54 is seen here, with 66658 dragging 66657 to Toton for attention (66657 reappeared on the Boston steel a week later).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128796627@N05/54269545915/ (Goff)
N.B. 0E23 is the regular daily (SX) 08:40 Toton TMD to Doncaster Belmont loco move; the booked return working is 0M22 13:09 Doncaster Belmont - Toton TMD, but it often runs an hour or so early as 0F54. These workings run as required and are used for moving DB locos (and also GBRF 60s) to and from Toton for maintenance, and make a convenient light engine test run for the 66/6s after conversion.
66658 remains on yard pilot duties at Toton (see post #92) but has done a couple more test runs. It ran to Doncaster and back as 6E23 / 0F54 on 14th Jan.
6E23 was a light engine move (66658 hauling 66118, 66055, 66077, 66140, 60087) but ran as a class 6 due to rules about the maximum number of locos on a regular class 0 move (5 in England and Wales, 2 in Scotland). In the past, these kinds of moves have run with X headcodes, such as this working with 9 locos in 2013.
66658 did another trip to Doncaster and back as 0E23 / 0F54 on 15th Jan. 0F54 is seen here, with 66658 dragging 66657 to Toton for attention (66657 reappeared on the Boston steel a week later).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128796627@N05/54269545915/ (Goff)
Rail Quest
Member
Interesting stuff, many thanks!
50002Superb
Established Member
Can confirm that 66659 worked 6M07, saw it just now through Attenborough.
The_Train
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 4,720
Have 66657 or 66658 operated any revenue earning services as of yet?
Trainman40083
Established Member
I took a picture of 66657 on pig pens on 12th November. Wolverhampton to Boston?
Think apart from its test run, 658 has been doing only depot shunting at Toton.
The_Train
Established Member
- Joined
- 2 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 4,720
DBS92042
Established Member
- Joined
- 13 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 1,474
66653 made, what I believe is, its first appearance on the Portbury steels today. With 66655 making an appearance in late November 2024, should be just 66657 upwards yet to make an appearance. Seen slowly passing Parson Street as 166215 overtook it
I caught it crossing the Ashton Vale road bridge, nice to complete my original bingo card. Didn’t know it was a namer too.
I think 657 and 658 are out in the wild, and quite a few more to follow. Not sure I’ll see them all coming down the gorge as GBRF are supposedly taking over at some point, although it’s taking a while to happen - would be nice if both operators worked the service.
40029 Saxonia
Member
66654 was on the Dee Marsh - Margam steel empties on Friday 14/2 and I saw 66653 on the same working a few weeks ago.
Is this a regular diagram for the 6665x locos?
Thanks
Is this a regular diagram for the 6665x locos?
Thanks
66652 worked this yesterday (18/2)
Last edited:
Trainman40083
Established Member
Has 66658 actually left Toton...Noted the other day, that 66660 had been painted
658 has issues I believe.
To note, 66659 made it to Carlisle this week and has gone north I think to Kilbride on an engineers train.
I think 657/658 seem to work out of the midlands, think 658 was mainly or just shunting at Toton which might be due to the aforementioned ‘issues’. I don’t know if these are formal allocations in any way. The first six seem to routinely work out of Margam.
The Margam-Portbury steel run is still a frequent turn for them, so far this week we’ve had 652, 651 and 656 on consecutive days.
66659 Worked up from Carlisle on 6K35 at 0432 a with Ballast drop at Clarkston Station. Then went further up the East Kilbride Branch as far as the start of the Extended Hairmyres Loop. Likley to work 6K32 Back to Carlisle NY
Omitted Left Carlisle on the Tue 18t and due to leave (EK) Reporting Busby Junction 0328 runnbing Via Carstaire FRIDAY 21st. A HECK OF A LONG SHUT DOWN AT HAIRMYRES
Attachments
Last edited:
& 654 showed up on it today. They’re all having a go this week!
As if by magic 653 has dropped onto it today. Are the Margam schedulers reading this to thread?!
To summarise, this week 6Z53/55 has been:
Monday 66652
Tuesday 66651
Wednesday 66656
Thursday 66654
Friday 66653
It’s quite normal to get regular 66s on this working too, so seems quite a fluke getting five different HTEs.
I’ll have to pop out at lunchtime to try and catch 653 as it’s only been out once before and I didn’t get a particularly great video last time. I actually heard the horn at work as it set off from Ashton Junction over a mile away since there’s a wind blowing the right way today.
Last edited:
It's been noted that DB's 66/6s have a message next to the MW socket that says: "“Not suitable for Multiple Operation”.
Does anybody know the technical reason for this? It can't be just that they are regeared, as allsorts of locomotives with different gearings are able to work with each other. I've seen FLs 66/6s working in multi regularly. It's fairly common on the Mendip stone traffic and on one railtour 2 x FL 66/6, 1 FL 70 and 1 66/5 all worked in multi together.
Does anybody know the real technical reason for DBs 66/6s not being allowed to work in multi?
Does anybody know the technical reason for this? It can't be just that they are regeared, as allsorts of locomotives with different gearings are able to work with each other. I've seen FLs 66/6s working in multi regularly. It's fairly common on the Mendip stone traffic and on one railtour 2 x FL 66/6, 1 FL 70 and 1 66/5 all worked in multi together.
Does anybody know the real technical reason for DBs 66/6s not being allowed to work in multi?
Adrian Barr
Member
I think the Dee Marsh, Portbury and Robeston trains are currently diagrammed for 66/6s out of Margam.
I believe it's something to do with a concern about the power available potentially putting excessive strain on the couplings (maybe on the wagons if not the loco) rather than any technical issue that would stop it from working.
That was the case with the Class 60. On one RTC test a pair ripped the drawgear off a HEA wagon!
However, I thought the DB 66/6s were going to be very similar to the FL ones - with the lower gear ratio of 83:18 as opposed to the 66/0 ratio of 81:20. So if both DB and FL 66/6s have the same gearing, then why do DB have a concern, while FL are using them in multi regularly? Is there genuinely something different?
Adrian Barr
Member
As far as I know (which isn't very far) the DB 66/6s are basically the same as the Freightliner ones, like you say. I would guess the reasoning behind the multiple working restriction probably boils down to assumptions used in some engineering calculation in a risk assessment somewhere, combined with the fact that there isn't currently a need to use 66/6s in multi for anything a pair of standard 66s couldn't do.
Coupling strength on wagons has always been a secondary component when calculating max loads. It's unlikely to be the limiting factor with "56 ton" couplings on modern block trains (unless you start running super jumbos with multiple engines), but is occasionally an issue with "34 ton" couplings. It could be that the concern about multiple-working only applies to the latter but was implemented as a blanket restriction for the sake of simplicity. Without knowing the details that's just speculation, but some background assumption like that could explain why FL multi 66/6s and DB don't. Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine...
Thanks for that. That makes sense - to a point. I'd love to know the detailed engineering reasons for this. Do you know what a "56 ton" coupling actually means in terms of force it can take? These locos with wheelcreep - even including 66/0s are able to exert tractive effort forces of around 100,000 lbf, and so two of them would be around 200,000 lbf. The quoted max TE figure for a 66/6 is 105000 lbf. So two of them would be 210000 lbf. That's 93.75 tons at the drawbar between inside loco and leading wagon. That's way over 56 tons, and if you are on a steep gradient, you'll also have the gravity induced forces acting the other way - for a 1 in 100, a 4000 ton train would generate 40 tons of pull due to the gradient. So we're nearly up to 150 tons now before we even start working with snatches.
Incidentally, I found this article, which states that some 34.5t and 56t couplings have been "uprated" to 40t and 63t respectively.
Coupler research paves way for longer freight trains
UK: The length and capacity of freight trains is to be increased as a result of research which has found that existing wagon couplers can safely accommodate higher trailing loads without upgrading or a detailed engineering assessment. The research by the Rail Safety & Standards Board ...
www.railwaygazette.com