December 2021 Timetable change

[dk1]

Not time this sort of coincidence has occurred though

Was the usual way under BR

 

[jfollows]

Aapologies if I've missed this on here, but I've discovered from another (German!) forum that the Dec 2021 timetable is available to download; it is in a completely new format, includes headcodes, and the tables themselves have changed substantially. Happy reading!and
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/electronic-national-rail-timetable/

Thank you for this alert.

The fact that these timetables have been collated by people who care about what they're doing is immediately obvious, and especially following a number of years in which the national rail timetable has been put together by people who couldn't care less about the product and its accuracy. Yes, as others have observed, the new timetable might not be totally accurate either, but that's due to rapid changes being introduced which didn't used to be the case, but even so I'd not be surprised to see updates to the national rail timetable from time to time, which hasn't happened for years now.

So a good move. Personally I like the reporting numbers and couldn't care less about the station abbreviations, I like the use of colours which isn't overdone but is probably a good break from the 1974 (and earlier) black and white tradition, and I have no problem at all with the changed table numbers, especially given that the downloaded PDFs now include a partial description of their route coverage in their names as well.

 

[sjm77]

What!
Euston - Manchester departures are xx20, xx40 & xx56! What the hell is going on? Southbound retains xx15, xx35 & xx55 btw

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What!
Euston - Manchester departures are xx20, xx40 & xx56! What the hell is going on? Southbound retains xx15, xx35 & xx55 btw

“What the hell is going on” is we are still in the middle of a global pandemic and running amended/temporary timetables:

There is still only demand for 2 West Midlands services each hour meaning the xx03 has to call at both Watford and Rugby so departs at xx59 as per the timetable operating until December.

That means when the 3rd Manchester is restored with this timetable it has to depart at xx56 to keep ahead of the West Midlands service.

 

[dastocks]

I don't think it affects them. There aren't any 'Not Gatwick Express' fares that don't have an 'Any Permitted' fare at the same rate.

It looks like they've finally put in place the original plan, which was to reduce the Any Permitted fares to be the same as Not Gatwick Express fares when the direct Southern services between Brighton and Victoria were removed from the May 2020 timetable. This was after a lot of squealing from the local press in Brighton. It didn't happen because Gatwick Express services were suspended altogether before the timetable became effective, and they've only been selling Not Gatwick Express or Thameslink Only fares while Gatwick Express services haven't been running.

 

[dk1]

“What the hell is going on” is we are still in the middle of a global pandemic and running amended/temporary timetables:

There is still only demand for 2 West Midlands services each hour meaning the xx03 has to call at both Watford and Rugby so departs at xx59 as per the timetable operating until December.

That means when the 3rd Manchester is restored with this timetable it has to depart at xx56 to keep ahead of the West Midlands service.

There has been some severe overcrowding on the Brum bound Avanti services not helped by the dreadfully spaced xx:43/xx:59 departures with the first running onto Blackpool/Edinburgh. The West Mids have come off pretty poor considering it serves Britains first & second cities,

 

[JonathanH]

There has been some severe overcrowding on the Brum bound Avanti services not helped by the dreadfully spaced xx:43/xx:59 departures with the first running onto Blackpool/Edinburgh. The West Mids have come off pretty poor considering it serves Britains first & second cities,

Certainly seems somewhat unfortunate that the xx.23 path can't be used instead of having the xx.03 leave early to fit Watford in but I note the issues that trying to stop the xx.23 at Rugby would lead to with LNR running in the xx.49 path from December through to Birmingham instead of the xx.15 one. In many ways, it would be better if Avanti could repurpose the xx.10 North Wales path for Birmingham, holding at Rugby to run on Coventry, but it still seems to be used for North Wales in some hours.

 

[dk1]

Certainly seems somewhat unfortunate that the xx.23 path can't be used instead of having the xx.03 leave early to fit Watford in but I note the issues that trying to stop the xx.23 at Rugby would lead to with LNR running in the xx.49 path from December through to Birmingham instead of the xx.15 one. In many ways, it would be better if Avanti could repurpose the xx.10 North Wales path for Birmingham, holding at Rugby to run on Coventry, but it still seems to be used for North Wales in some hours.

Yes I agree. The xx:23 departure reappears during the afternoon/evening. The timetable looks very uninspiring at the moment although it’s good to see Manchester back to almost pre-pandemic frequencies & the main Glasgow back up to speed.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Thank you for this alert.

The fact that these timetables have been collated by people who care about what they're doing is immediately obvious, and especially following a number of years in which the national rail timetable has been put together by people who couldn't care less about the product and its accuracy. Yes, as others have observed, the new timetable might not be totally accurate either, but that's due to rapid changes being introduced which didn't used to be the case, but even so I'd not be surprised to see updates to the national rail timetable from time to time, which hasn't happened for years now.

Overall I like the clarity compared to the old eNRT, but the wholesale renumbering of the tables is irritating...at least until I learn the new numbers.

 

[subk2010]

Does anyone know the details about how will Scotrail deal with the Glasgow Central(Low Level) Closure? Very Curious about how will the Larkhall/Motherwell trains be diverted to Queen St.

During the December 2021 timetable, Network Rail will be closing the route through Glasgow Central Low Level between 13 March and 8 May (inclusive). The line is closing temporarily in order to replace the slab track in the Anderston Tunnel. This will mean that many services which would normally operate via Glasgow Central Low Level will be diverted into Glasgow Central High Level or via Glasgow Queen Street Low Level. A revised service level will operate on all routes during the closure, and journey times may be extended on some services to allow for trains taking a diverted route.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Does anyone know the details about how will Scotrail deal with the Glasgow Central(Low Level) Closure? Very Curious about how will the Larkhall/Motherwell trains be diverted to Queen St.

As that's a 2 month long blockade that won't be built into the WTT, but will be done at an STP basis. Currently STP are working on weeks in January, so you won't hear about the proposed amended timetable in full for a couple of months yet.

Within the tocs and NR, they will know what diversions they are going to be doing and rough times for them, but the exact times and all the various ecs changes required won't be finalised for 2 months at the earliest.

 

[Bikeman78]

Does anyone know the details about how will Scotrail deal with the Glasgow Central(Low Level) Closure? Very Curious about how will the Larkhall/Motherwell trains be diverted to Queen St.

There is a connecting line from Whifflet to Coatbridge Sunnyside but difficult to see how much use that will be. Trains from Larkhall and those from Motherwell via Hamilton or Carmyle will have to use Glasgow Central High Level or terminate short.

When Rutherglen to Cambuslang was shut in summer 2018 they extended the Glasgow to Newton trains through to Larkhall and Motherwell. I can't recall what happened with the line via Carmyle to Whifflet. Buses perhaps?

 

[The Planner]

As that's a 2 month long blockade that won't be built into the WTT, but will be done at an STP basis. Currently STP are working on weeks in January, so you won't hear about the proposed amended timetable in full for a couple of months yet.

Within the tocs and NR, they will know what diversions they are going to be doing and rough times for them, but the exact times and all the various ecs changes required won't be finalised for 2 months at the earliest.

Surprised that an agreement to STP for 2 months got over the line, I know several TOCs wouldn't have stood for it.

 

[Watershed]

Surprised that an agreement to STP for 2 months got over the line, I know several TOCs wouldn't have stood for it.

Yes, far less work for everyone if it's done as a period-based LTP.

I would be surprised if this block is done on an STP basis, it's probably just that the LTP for that period hasn't gone through all the processes yet.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Surprised that an agreement to STP for 2 months got over the line, I know several TOCs wouldn't have stood for it.

You are right, ignore my post. I misread the initial post, should teach me to read posts while I'm about to fall asleep.

Yes, far less work for everyone if it's done as a period-based LTP.

I would be surprised if this block is done on an STP basis, it's probably just that the LTP for that period hasn't gone through all the processes yet.

I was wrong, ignore me.

 

[Class 170101]

As that's a 2 month long blockade that won't be built into the WTT, but will be done at an STP basis. Currently STP are working on weeks in January, so you won't hear about the proposed amended timetable in full for a couple of months yet.

Within the tocs and NR, they will know what diversions they are going to be doing and rough times for them, but the exact times and all the various ecs changes required won't be finalised for 2 months at the earliest.

Yes, far less work for everyone if it's done as a period-based LTP.

I would be surprised if this block is done on an STP basis, it's probably just that the LTP for that period hasn't gone through all the processes yet.

Its in Real Time Trains already as a dateset. Larkhall services diverted to Glasgow Central High Level

Realtime Trains | Departures from Larkhall between 0200 and 0159 on 20/04/2022

Train information at Larkhall between 0200 and 0159 on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There is a connecting line from Whifflet to Coatbridge Sunnyside but difficult to see how much use that will be.

That route is also not wired as far as I know.

 

[Bikeman78]

That route is also not wired as far as I know.

It is wired. The class 303s occasionally went that way back in the day. Thanks for the tip off regarding RTT.

EDIT:
Larkhall/Hamilton to Glasgow trains diverted via Burnside in normal paths of Newton trains.
Hourly Motherwell to Glasgow Central via Whifflet and Carmyle.
Quite drastic thinning out on the Partick side. Basically half hourly on each route with a random third train via Singer and Yoker which go to Springburn.

 

[gnolife]

Its in Real Time Trains already as a dateset. Larkhall services diverted to Glasgow Central High Level

Realtime Trains | Departures from Larkhall between 0200 and 0159 on 20/04/2022

Train information at Larkhall between 0200 and 0159 on 20/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That route is also not wired as far as I know.

So off peak, there appears to be
Glasgow Central - all stations via Maxwell Park - Larkhall
Glasgow Central - all stations via Mount Florida - Hamilton - Motherwell
Glasgow Central - first stop Carmyle - Whifflet - Motherwell
Motherwell - Whifflet - Cumbernauld

All of which appear to run once per hour.


Replacement buses every half hour
Partick - Exhibition Ctr - Glasgow Ctl - Bridgeton - Dalmarnock - Rutherglen - Cambuslang - Newton - Carmyle
Anderston and Argyle Street get no service

 

[infobleep]

Presumably these were last minute changes?

Back in the days of the printed timetable book there was always a late supplement issued covering things like that.

Indeed there was. I have a leaflet inside my April 1944 Bradshaw with timetable changes.

 

[Staffido]

Although not shown in the Northern or XC timetables, the latter's 1H09 05:57 Birmingham - Manchester currently makes what RTT describes as a service stop unadvertised, the only XC service to call. Appears this will cease come the timetable change with IH09 to no longer stop with no replacement. Appears the days of Congleton as a station on the XC network are shortly to come to an end, something that was introduced by Virgin Trains in 2002.

 

[jfollows]

Although not shown in the Northern or XC timetables, the latter's 1H09 05:57 Birmingham - Manchester currently makes what RTT describes as a service stop unadvertised, the only XC service to call. Appears this will cease come the timetable change with IH09 to no longer stop with no replacement. Appears the days of Congleton as a station on the XC network are shortly to come to an end, something that was introduced by Virgin Trains in 2002.

You're referring to Congleton, and pretty much the same applies to XC and Wilmslow, with 1H14 (06:53 Birmingham New Street to Manchester Piccadilly) no longer calling at Wilmslow (as it did pre-Covid) and also 1O68 (17:27 Manchester Piccadilly to Reading, formerly to Bournemouth) used to call at Wilmslow in the evening rush hour (the reporting number of the latter reflecting that it used to continue to Bournemouth rather than terminate at Reading).
Although shown as calling at Wilmslow today, in fact neither 1H14 nor 1O68 actually call, it's a timetable artifice, so removing the calls with the timetable change will simply reflect reality better. I am pretty sure (see https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G29220/2021-11-29/detailed#allox_id=0) that 1H09 does not call at Congleton today either.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...4/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=XC shows the similar result for Wilmslow following the timetable change, attached here also.
Originally given as a "Covid" excuse for not calling, I gather.
The difference is that Wilmslow has an alternative service rather more frequent than Congleton does.

 

[30907]

The difference is that Wilmslow has an alternative service rather more frequent than Congleton does.

Congleton has a half hourly service to Manchester at that time of day.

 

[jfollows]

Congleton has a half hourly service to Manchester at that time of day.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but Wilmslow has 6 services to Manchester between 07:00 and 08:00 on a weekday (and, OK, one of them is overtaken by another of them). There would also be 6 services 08:00 to 09:00 but 1H14 no longer stops so there's only 5.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Southern and Thameslink are thinning services from 13/12 to 24/12 and restoring them on 4/1 although i fear a Covid reduction coming in again

Southern​

Milton Keynes to Clapham Junction​

Southern will run two services per day in each direction:

• 05:27 Balham to Milton Keynes Central
• 07:01 Milton Keynes Central to Selhurst
• 17:16 Selhurst to Milton Keynes Central
• 19:16 Milton Keynes Central to Selhurst

At other times, you will need to use London Overground, London Underground and London Northwestern Railway services for stations on this route.

Beckenham Junction to London Bridge via Crystal Palace​

The following services will run:

Towards London Bridge:

• 07:45 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge
• 08:45 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge
• 16:45 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge
• 17:45 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge
• 18:45 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge

Towards Beckenham Junction:

• 07:01 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction
• 08:01 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction
• 16:01 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction
• 17:01 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction
• 18:01 London Bridge to Beckenham Junction
• 00:01 London Bridge to Crystal Palace

Caterham / Tattenham Corner to London Bridge​

A shuttle service will run between Tattenham Corner and Purley every 30 minutes at busy times and hourly throughout the day.

Caterham to London Bridge services via Tulse Hill will continue. Fast services to London Bridge will not run.

Brighton to Southampton Central​

Direct services between Brighton and Southampton Central will not run between Barnham and Southampton Central. Customers should change at Barnham for alternative services between Barnham and Portsmouth Harbour or Southampton.

Thameslink​

St Albans City to Sutton​

The current four trains per hour service on this route will reduce to two trains per hour in each direction. One train per hour will travel via Wimbledon and one via Hackbridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

Southern and Thameslink are thinning services from 13/12 to 24/12 and restoring them on 4/1 although i fear a Covid reduction coming in again

This is a Covid reduction. Huge number of drivers off.

 

[dk1]

This is a Covid reduction. Huge number of drivers off.

I am confused as to why huge numbers of drivers are off.

 

[Saint66]

Journey planners are showing a daily direct 21:10 WMT service from Euston through to St Albans Abbey from the 13/12, timed at 37 minutes.

 

[47421]

This is a Covid reduction. Huge number of drivers off.

why do you think GTR so badly affected as compared to say Greater Anglia?

 

[The exile]

why do you think GTR so badly affected as compared to say Greater Anglia?

Presumably all that needs to happen is for there to be an outbreak at a depot….

 

[30907]

Presumably all that needs to happen is for there to be an outbreak at a depot….

And given an infection rate almost as high as last Christmas, but staying at that level for a couple of months, it isn't surprising.