December 2022 Timetable Changes

[Bald Rick]

At topical transport questions this morning Huw Merriman in response to a question about Avanti West Coast said the numbers of daily trains will be increasing from 180 to 264 from December timetable change - have they really got that many new drivers signed off ready to go?

It doesn’t need many more drivers. The current emergency rosters are horribly inefficient (As all emergency rosters are). But, yes, over the past few months lots of Avanti drivers have gained (or regained) the necessary competencies.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It doesn’t need many more drivers. The current emergency rosters are horribly inefficient (As all emergency rosters are). But, yes, over the past few months lots of Avanti drivers have gained (or regained) the necessary competencies.

well if they deliver that improvement they deserve to keep the management contract

 

[Roger B]

well if they deliver that improvement they deserve to keep the management contract

I doubt that many (any?) Avanti employees would agree with you (other than, perhaps drivers?), given the comments I've heard from my contacts .......

And yes, I'm aware that (in theory), the raison d'etre of Avanti is to serve its customers, but in practice they're well down the pecking order, behind its owners (stake-holders / share-holders), D(a)fT, etc.

Then again probably not that dissimilar from any other TOC! Although some make more of a semblance of being concerned with the welfare of their employees - working conditions / practices, Ts & Cs, benefits, etc, and are generally less hostile to them than the attitude I've been told that Avanti has to its employees. That said, much of the bluster probably emanates from Horseferry Road - but the contrast between Avanti and, say, LNER is pretty stark!

 

[4BEP]

Well the timetable didn’t support the 2tph Thameslink, the multiple Southeastern services and then any stuff coming across Bickley Junction.

As it is, with a standard pattern and only 6tph via Grove Park (2 of which don’t use the bays) and you should be able to achieve 10tph in 3 bays.

Any ideas on the number of diagrams going in the new timetable, reductions on Mainline look pretty drastic?

 

[Jamesrob637]

I wonder, across the network in general, how many percent of pre-COVID services will run or be back in a fortnight. Bearing in mind that there have been some post-COVID enhancements here and there too.

 

[liamf656]

This might be the wrong place to ask but does anyone know if EMR are changing the 222/180 diagrams in December? (ie. altering which services run as 5/7/10 car)

 

[berneyarms]

An updated list of TOCs that have now published timetable pdf files:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
Lumo
Northern
Southern
Southeastern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

 

[Minstral25]

An updated list of TOCs that have now published timetable pdf files:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
Lumo
Northern
Southern
Southeastern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

Thameslink Dec 22 have been online for a while too

 

[WizCastro197]

An updated list of TOCs that have now published timetable pdf files:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
Lumo
Northern
Southern
Southeastern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

https://www.lumo.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-timetable


The Lumo link for anyone that needs it.

The times remain the same as the previous one IIRC.

 

[jfollows]

Working timetables at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/

.... which are all published as spreadsheets this time, in place of PDFs, they're now all .xlsx files, I'm not yet sure whether or not that's a good thing but it's probably not too hard to print them as PDFs as well.

EDIT On my Mac with Microsoft Office it's relatively easy to print the spreadsheets as portrait or landscape PDFs.

 

[TheBigD]

https://www.lumo.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-timetable


The Lumo link for anyone that needs it.

The times remain the same as the previous one IIRC.

There's a few changes.
Current 0911 SX Edinburgh-King's Cross leave at 0924 and is speeded up
Saturdays see the 1827 ex Kings Cross extended through to Edinburgh and a new 2056 Edinburgh-Newcastle.

 

[David Turner]

The new Network Rail timetable for December 2022 is now available to download – option 1.

Electronic national rail timetable - Network Rail

The electronic National Rail Timetable (eNRT) is a long-term timetable for planners that covers services on the national rail network.

www.networkrail.co.uk

 

[WizCastro197]

There's a few changes.
Current 0911 SX Edinburgh-King's Cross leave at 0924 and is speeded up
Saturdays see the 1827 ex Kings Cross extended through to Edinburgh and a new 2056 Edinburgh-Newcastle.

Ah right, thanks. Couldn't remember the times straight of the top of my head, but I do remember the 05:45 was there before and so was the 14:xx train

An updated list of TOCs that have now published timetable pdf files:

Avanti West Coast
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Great Northern
Greater Anglia
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
Lumo
Northern
Southern
Southeastern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

Is that everyone now?

 

[berneyarms]

Further updated list of TOCs whose new timetable pdfs are available online on their respective websites:

Avanti West Coast
Chiltern
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Greater Anglia
Great Northern
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
London Overground
Lumo
Northern
Scotrail
Southeastern
Southern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

Also, the eNRT and the Working Timetable files are both on the Network Rail website.

 

[WizCastro197]

Further updated list of TOCs whose new timetable pdfs are available online on their respective websites:

Avanti West Coast
Chiltern
CrossCountry
East Midlands Railway
Gatwick Express
Grand Central
Greater Anglia
Great Northern
GWR
Hull Trains
LNER
London Northwestern Railway
London Overground
Lumo
Northern
Scotrail
Southeastern
Southern
South Western Railway
TfL Elizabeth Line
Thameslink
Transpennine Express
Transport for Wales
West Midlands Railway

Also, the eNRT and the Working Timetable files are both on the Network Rail website.

Is there no c2c?

 

[A S Leib]

Is there no c2c?

No.

 

[WizCastro197]

No.

Alright, I guess they don't really share anything with anyone apart from the few Liverpool Street services.

 

[berneyarms]

c2c and Merseyrail don't generally publish pdf timetables until the changeover date.

 

[wls1]

c2c dec timetable available here:

Timetable changes from Sunday 11 December | Trains to/from London, Southend & Essex with c2c Rail

For trains to and from London, Southend and elsewhere in Essex, plus timetables, ticket sales, information and events and offers, visit c2c-online.co.uk

www.c2c-online.co.uk

"Faster 07:18 Shoeburyness to Fenchurch St, Additional 07:29 Thorpe Bay to Fenchurch St, Additional 18:30 Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness"

 

[td97]

Some diagrams have been removed from the Rochdale to Blackburn service. Not quite a return to the promised 2tph.

Now showing as 2tph all day in journey planners. Similarly, a full return to 1tph for Liverpool to Blackpool.

 

[markyl]

Tuesday 6th South London MPs debate Southeastern timetable changes …

Parliamentlive.tv

Westminster Hall

parliamentlive.tv

 

[Oxfordblues]

Two departures from Ealing Broadway Platform 3 advertised at 13:08, 2N34 GWR to Didcot Parkway and 9N64 EL to Maidenhead (which is really due to depart at 13:11.5) It's confusing for passengers who might expect both trains to arrive at the same time and a perceived 3-minute "delay" to the EL train.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was at Ealing Broadway on Platform 3 today at 13:00 and was astonished to see two departures due at 13:08. 2N34 12:57 Paddington-Didcot and 9N64 12:24 Abbey Wood-Maidenhead, both WTT and unamended. I'd thought the permanent timetable was fully-validated before publication, but evidently not. Needless to say, the Elizabeth Line train was delayed by the GWR service and departed at 13:11. It's the same next week with the new timetable.

Can anybody enlighten me please as to how this came about?

9N64 is 13:11:30 in the WTT.

 

[I13]

I was at Ealing Broadway on Platform 3 today at 13:00 and was astonished to see two departures due at 13:08. 2N34 12:57 Paddington-Didcot and 9N64 12:24 Abbey Wood-Maidenhead, both WTT and unamended. I'd thought the permanent timetable was fully-validated before publication, but evidently not. Needless to say, the Elizabeth Line train was delayed by the GWR service and departed at 13:11. It's the same next week with the new timetable.

Can anybody enlighten me please as to how this came about?

The working departure of 9N64 is 13:11:30, and would ordinarily be a public departure of 13:11. In this instance, an offset has been applied to make the public-facing time earlier than the working (i.e. industry) time.

Why? At a guess, the GWR runs later this half hour than it normally does throughout. There might have been a preference by Crossrail to keep departure times uniform throughout the day (i.e. Maidenhead services are always 08/38) to make things easier for passengers to remember.

 

[mangyiscute]

The working departure of 9N64 is 13:11:30, and would ordinarily be a public departure of 13:11. In this instance, an offset has been applied to make the public-facing time earlier than the working (i.e. industry) time.

Why? At a guess, the GWR runs later this half hour than it normally does throughout. There might have been a preference by Crossrail to keep departure times uniform throughout the day (i.e. Maidenhead services are always 08/38) to make things easier for passengers to remember.

Well this brings up two questions for me personally - first, why does the Elizabeth line west of Paddington often have the passenger facing times a couple minutes earlier than the actual WTT times, and also why does this specific GWR train run later?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Well this brings up two questions for me personally - first, why does the Elizabeth line west of Paddington often have the passenger facing times a couple minutes earlier than the actual WTT times, and also why does this specific GWR train run later?

The GWR service runs later due to a freight service. GWR use a principle of advertising the service to depart when it actually will. Unfortunately in this case Crossrail chose to apply a negative differential to keep a train on pattern even though it will never run at that time as will be behind the GWR. A prime example of a I poor application of public / working differentials

 

[robrymond]

I've had an email from TfW about the changes to the timetable for the Cardiff-Manchester line stating that some stations cannot accommodate the new trains. It appears Nantwich still has some Cardiff services stopping but not all of them. Are these ones not due to be served by the intercity 4 carriages or something? We still seem to have some two hour gaps in the day with no service which is frustrating!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I've had an email from TfW about the changes to the timetable for the Cardiff-Manchester line stating that some stations cannot accommodate the new trains. It appears Nantwich still has some Cardiff services stopping but not all of them. Are these ones not due to be served by the intercity 4 carriages or something? We still seem to have some two hour gaps in the day with no service which is frustrating!

Mk4s will run fast Shrewsbury - Crewe as I understand it. The 197s in the other hours (or legacy units for now) will call at Wem, Whitchurch and Nantwich in the other hours as I believe they do now.

 

[cle]

Eventually there should be 2tph on that route - a faster Manchester-Cardiff, and a more regional service which could be Crewe-Cardiff, for instance - still offering a lot of connections and covering all the local stops. I'm sure they'd prefer an hourly service and Crewe gives London, Liverpool, Scotland, others... not everyone will be going to Manchester from Wem, by any means so I'm sure losing Manchester won't be the biggest issue.

Also worth noting that there is the two-hourly North Wales - Cardiff, and a future Liverpool-Cardiff (two hourly) - which when combined will offer additional hourly service from Shrewsbury down.

 

[Snow1964]

Northern will lose the 319s which are being swapped for the ex-West Midland 323s.

Info from page 147 of the revised Northern contract that DfT uploaded today 8th December

Class 323
51 (17 x 3car)
2 x Units on 14th November 2022
2 x Units on 21st November 2022
2 x Units on 5th December 2022
5 x Units on 9th January 2023
4 x Units on 13th February 2023
2 x Units on 8th May 2023

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1119251/dolr-holdings-northern-trains-services-contract.pdf