Delay Repay - hypothetical question

[Par]

Purely hypothetical question because my delay repay claim has already been settled.

On October 4th our journey from Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central was disrupted due to a fatality between Leamington Spa and Banbury. No fault of CrossCountry of course, however it resulted in a 2 hour plus delay to arrival, so they were obliged to (and have promptly done so) refund the full cost of two Off-Peak Returns, not an inconsiderable sum.

The refund was received before we made the return journey (yesterday - which ran to time), but I did get to thinking what, if any, is the entitlement to additional compensation had the return journey also have been delayed?

I presume nothing because of the 100% refund already received?

 

[Hadders]

You're not entitled to delay repay of more than the full cost of the ticket, so a claim on the return journey ought to be rejected. Sometimes they do slip through, especially if your claim is with another train company.

 

[Par]

Thanks, I imagined that would be the case.

 

[Watershed]

Purely hypothetical question because my delay repay claim has already been settled.

On October 4th our journey from Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton Central was disrupted due to a fatality between Leamington Spa and Banbury. No fault of CrossCountry of course, however it resulted in a 2 hour plus delay to arrival, so they were obliged to (and have promptly done so) refund the full cost of two Off-Peak Returns, not an inconsiderable sum.

The refund was received before we made the return journey (yesterday - which ran to time), but I did get to thinking what, if any, is the entitlement to additional compensation had the return journey also have been delayed?

I presume nothing because of the 100% refund already received?

It used to be the case that the rules didn't explicitly limit the amount of compensation payable. That changed when the NRCoT were updated; they now say that delay compensation cannot, in total, exceed the amount paid for a ticket.

 

[AdamWW]

It used to be the case that the rules didn't explicitly limit the amount of compensation payable. That changed when the NRCoT were updated; they now say that delay compensation cannot, in total, exceed the amount paid for a ticket.

Which makes it rather clear that it's not "compensation", it's a (partial or full) refund.

Yet some TOCs insist that if somone buys tickets to travel with their family, every family member must individually submit a delay repay claim because the compensation needs to go to the person who was affected by the delay not the person who paid for the ticket...

 

[island]

Which makes it rather clear that it's not "compensation", it's a (partial or full) refund.

The fact that the amount is limited to a certain cap has no bearing on whether the payment constitutes "compensation" or not.

This distinction is quite important for those travelling on business, as compensation payments are tax-free. (Not relevant to the OP though.)

 

[Watershed]

Which makes it rather clear that it's not "compensation", it's a (partial or full) refund.

Yet some TOCs insist that if somone buys tickets to travel with their family, every family member must individually submit a delay repay claim because the compensation needs to go to the person who was affected by the delay not the person who paid for the ticket...

No, it's compensation, in the form of liquidated damages. It's just that the amount is determined by reference to the ticket price. One of the key differences between the two being that compensation is paid by the train operator, whereas refunds are paid by the retailer.

 

[AdamWW]

No, it's compensation, in the form of liquidated damages. It's just that the amount is determined by reference to the ticket price. One of the key differences between the two being that compensation is paid by the train operator, whereas refunds are paid by the retailer.

OK it's compensation in legal terminology - I won't argue that.

But in a practical sense, compensation that just happens to be set up so that you can't be compensated more than the full ticket cost looks a lot more like a refund to me. The inconvenience of a delay on the return part of a journey is the same no matter what happened on the way out - so if it's truly compensation or liquidated damages then why is does the amount vary depending on what was paid out already?

This distinction is quite important for those travelling on business, as compensation payments are tax-free. (Not relevant to the OP though.)

So if someone gets a refund because their trip is cancelled thats taxable?

 

[Haywain]

OK it's compensation in legal terminology - I won't argue that.

It's an important distinction in every respect as it sets out the process for claiming.

 

[island]

So if someone gets a refund because their trip is cancelled thats taxable?

If the trip was going to be claimed as a business expense and therefore deducted from one's tax bill, but the trip is later cancelled and refunded, the tax deduction will no longer exist.

 

[Watershed]

But in a practical sense, compensation that just happens to be set up so that you can't be compensated more than the full ticket cost looks a lot more like a refund to me. The inconvenience of a delay on the return part of a journey is the same no matter what happened on the way out - so if it's truly compensation or liquidated damages then why is does the amount vary depending on what was paid out already?

Simply because it limits the maximum liability of the train company. This sort of cap on compensation is very common in commercial contracts.

 

[AdamWW]

Simply because it limits the maximum liability of the train company. This sort of cap on compensation is very common in commercial contracts.

Fair enough. Yes I started thinking about liquidated damages and realised it didn't seem so unreasonable.

Though this is perhaps a little different from most commercial contracts in that the organisation paying out delay repay compensation may not have actually received the full ticket price in the first place.