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Derailment at Kirkby (Merseyside) - 13/03/2021
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I suppose it is safer to follow the planned timetable that is understood rather than making something up and causing "confusion and delay" (to quote Sir Topham Hatt)
221101 Voyager
Established Member
On 313s for example Full service is equivalent to the emergency brake position is this the same on 507s?
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Not sure about the Liverpool end but rainford to Knowsley freight terminal is worked by a token and rainford to Kirkby is worked by a staff.
Rainford to Knowsley Freight and Kirkby are both worked by token.
For the Signalling to work the train just needs to clear the track circuit for the Points then I can move the points and clear RJ2 Home Signal for it to come back into the Up platform to work back up to Wallgate
A token is used as a staff.
Edit, already answered.
As for the second consideration about changing ends, there's a safe enough cess most of the length of the single line - Northern happily see us changing ends routinely on non-gangwayed rakes of units in a lot worse places for underfoot conditions than Rainford-Kirkby. There was a walkway built around Dale Lane ground frame area about seven or eight years ago for the ground staff when working freight trains from Knowsley freight terminal though.
As for the second consideration about changing ends, there's a safe enough cess most of the length of the single line - Northern happily see us changing ends routinely on non-gangwayed rakes of units in a lot worse places for underfoot conditions than Rainford-Kirkby. There was a walkway built around Dale Lane ground frame area about seven or eight years ago for the ground staff when working freight trains from Knowsley freight terminal though.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Merseyrail uses LU-type train stops doesn't it?
You can see them working with the signals at Lime St on the Wirral loop.
Would they not be used at a location like Kirkby?
You can see them working with the signals at Lime St on the Wirral loop.
Would they not be used at a location like Kirkby?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, tripcocks are only used in the tunnels. Above ground it was previously just AWS and now TPWS.
bramling
Veteran Member
Only in the underground section. Mechanical train stops are a nuisance for various reasons, and they’re only fully effective on signals which have a full-speed overlap (which makes it prohibitive on faster sections of line). That wouldn’t preclude having them at termini, subject to the aforementioned maintenance liability, however why provide them when there’s TPWS already there?
berneyarms
Established Member
Not all of them.
The 10:14 arrival from Manchester Victoria (2K64) departed at 10:15 as ECS service 5J34 and arrived back at Rainford 9 minutes later at 10:24.
Given that it takes 10 minutes to get to Kirkby, it clearly didn't do that, but rather just worked forward onto the single line section, driver switched ends, and it proceeded back to Rainford platform 2.
Realtime Trains - 5J34 1015 Rainford to Rainford
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
berneyarms
Established Member
I just glanced at RTT, so I am assuming that it's correct.
9 mins is an awful long time to do a shunt onto the single line and back into the up platform. But I suppose the train would have to pass the signal at danger.
357
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I wouldn't consider it a long time.
Most of that would be the driver packing his bag, shutting down, changing ends, opening up and getting ready.
PauloDavesi
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Would the driver have been tested for alcohol, and other drugs, after the incident?
Also, if the accident was caused by a mechanical failure, is it still safe to use other units of the same design, until the cause of the failure has been rectified?
Also, if the accident was caused by a mechanical failure, is it still safe to use other units of the same design, until the cause of the failure has been rectified?
John Luxton
Established Member
The Liverpool Echo has been declining in all areas for many years. My parents and grand parents used to run a newsagents and I can recall back in the 1960s and early 70s when it was a good newspaper. However, it has declined to dross in recent years. Not only is transport related reporting poor, just about every aspect of news reports have errors in them. One only has to look at comments which are posted on their stories which appear on Facebook.
Their sister paper the Daily Post web site North Wales Live) which is now only published in north Wales (used to be Liverpool as well) was a better paper - but that is also in decline. In the last twelve months it has been undermining the tourist industry through its use of the Covid pandemic to manipulate opinion against visitors.
I also look in on some of Reach plc's other web sites Cornwall Live / Devon Live and they are also of poor quality.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Local newspapers are in general decline because people aren't buying them any more, and are just getting their news free online. Clickbait to advertising is about the only way they can keep their heads above water.
PG
Established Member
Yes indeed terrifying once you realise that, for whatever reason, you are not going to stop. Goes beyond a 'brown trousers' moment into this is not going to end well.
Thoughts to the driver.
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
To be fair, I can't remember any "brown trousers" moments that have ended well either!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Someone just shared that JetBlue "gear sideways" emergency landing on my Facebook - that's a good example!
jamesst
Member
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
I was referring to the "Brown trousers" bit rather than the eventual outcome!
Yes they'd almost certainly be D&A tested, as they would for any serious incident such as a spad, collision, derailment etc - it could be argued this incident was all three of those if you take the buffer stop to be a red aspect/end of movement authority.
If mechanical or electrical failure was suspected as the cause then the units would hopefully have been pulled from service for checks & repairs if necessary.
Let's just say enough is known to allow that decision to have been made.
The driver had the sense to get out of the cab and run along the first carriage.
Agreed and known very quickly hence a big focus should be on the poor performance of yet another legacy buffer arrangement (including that concrete block...)
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I can't imagine what the passengers must have thought when they saw that!
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Probably nothing. Some are happy to sit in the dark/smoke filled carriage without batting an eyelid.
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