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Derailment at Kirkby (Merseyside) - 13/03/2021

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Wyrleybart

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That leading car is a long way from being removed by rail - there will be a huge amount of underframe damage.

I daresay the underframe has been trashed in the incident but if accident recovery team (DBC ??) were to use MFD type equipment to lift and slide the vehicle into the correct alignment for the track underneath each axle could be dropped onto a wheelskate and the vehicle drawn at walking pace out of the site. There woulsd obviously be no way of creating air and thus brakes but an emergency overnight possession would grant the engineers the ability to recover the vehicle onto skates.
 
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507 001

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I do find it strange how many people reference TPWS when incidents such as these happen. TPWS is good but it’s not good enough to defy the laws of physics, it isn’t designed to prevent bufferstop collisions/SPADS/overspeeding, it’s designed to mitigate and try and lesson the consequences.
Also, with the best will in the world TPWS isn’t necessarily 100% failsafe, there could be a fault with the train bourne equipment or the track equipment.
Last but not least, it is permitted for a passenger train to run at 60mph with isolated TPWS as per the rule book.
TPWS is a great system and I’ve no doubt it’s prevented some quite nasty occurrences but we still rely heavily on human factors in running a safe railway.

Exactly, mitigate and reduce the impact of. Once you go above a certain speed, nothing is stopping you before you get to that stop block.

This from BBC Merseyide posted at app 1530..( also states wrong info on train as it happenend about 1900 .not 1835 )

It was the 1835 off Central.
 

55002

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Looks like went through at some speed
It’s 15mph in to the platform, it doesn’t mean it’s 15mph at the grids. I appreciate they can be set at differing trigger speeds but I’ve not seen them at more than 10mph. I always do 7 or 8 to be sure, but they’re generally set between 10 and 12mph as far as I’m aware.
was going 30 into platform apparently so I’ve read
 

randyrippley

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"Metro" report in case it adds anything

A train has derailed at Kirkby station on Merseyside causing major damage. An investigation has been launched into how the train managed to leave the tracks and hit a buffer stop just after 6.30pm on Saturday, causing significant damage. The driver of the Merseyrail service was taken to Aintree Hospital by ambulance as a precautionary measure. In total 12 passengers were on board the 6.35pm travelling from Knowsley toward Liverpool, along with two crew members. The passengers all managed to walk off the train following the smash and were checked by paramedics at the scene. They were described as ‘walking wounded’ with minor injuries.
The train struck the buffer stop, a device designed to prevent railway vehicles from going past the end of a physical section of track. The derailment caused a massive amount of damage, and photos and video from the scene revealed a significant amount of debris, rubble and smashed up concrete. Sections at the platform’s side appeared to have caved in due to the island led to an urgent meeting between officials from Merseyrail, Network Rail and emergency services. Reports from the fire service that the train also hit a bridge remain unconfirmed. A Merseyrail spokesperson said: “A full investigation is now underway into the circumstances surrounding the incident and Kirkby station will remain closed until further notice.” A spokesman for the British Transport Police added: ‘We were called to Kirkby railway station, Merseyside, at 7.01pm today (13 March) following reports that a train derailed while travelling into the station. ‘Officers, paramedics and fire services attended – thankfully no one sustained serious injuries. ‘Enquiries are ongoing and we are still investigating the full circumstances surrounding the incident.
 
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Trackman

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If it's not already been mentioned, Network Rail have said RAIB are at the scene today.
 

MarkyT

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The mitigation there is (IIRC) a 5mph crawl into the platform. Probably because there is no other "practicable" solution.
There's also a good modern friction buffer and about 10m of rail for it to slide along before the end wall. The other platform has a diagonal fence to divert people away from the mandatory 20m 'exclusion zone' from the buffer face which applies to modern installations and within which no structural elements of station buildings should be situated.
 

Taunton

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let's say it's 15 at Kirkby (as just stated) I still think at lets say 13mph I don't think it would have caused so much damage and gone so far, I'm no expert, it's just how I see it.
Depends how it is struck. 15mph and emergency braking will give a different result to 15mph with the power on.
 

mcnw35282

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No trains from Kirkby tomorrow while "track and platform repairs" take place. Bus from Kirkby to Aintree via Fazakerley and vice versa and also Kirkby to Rainford and vice versa.
 

Jamesrob637

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The Northern Rail line will probably be open as far as the waste depot for freight and Rainford for passengers.
 

Leeds1970

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with a collision of this type where braking and driver performance will be key component's of an investigation im suprized that the scene has been left wide open to members of the public and possible tampering - i.e. accessing the train and moving the position of power or brake handles
 

Ianno87

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with a collision of this type where braking and driver performance will be key component's of an investigation im suprized that the scene has been left wide open to members of the public and possible tampering - i.e. accessing the train and moving the position of power or brake handles

It's pretty easy to close off the 1-2 entrances to the platform.
 

Domh245

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with a collision of this type where braking and driver performance will be key component's of an investigation im suprized that the scene has been left wide open to members of the public and possible tampering - i.e. accessing the train and moving the position of power or brake handles

The relevant brake/power demands made by the driver will have been logged by the train's data recorder, so I don't see how any tampering (by moving controls after the fact) would have any bearing on the investigation?
 

507 001

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The "Smashes into bridge" claim does not appear to be backed up by anything in the actual article.

Having walked across the pedestrian footbridge this afternoon it is quite clear that the unit has gone nowhere near the bridge.

with a collision of this type where braking and driver performance will be key component's of an investigation im suprized that the scene has been left wide open to members of the public and possible tampering - i.e. accessing the train and moving the position of power or brake handles

Kirkby station entrance was being guarded by two police officers this afternoon and there were orange army everywhere. It’s hardly wide open.
 

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Wezz

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I daresay the underframe has been trashed in the incident but if accident recovery team (DBC ??) were to use MFD type equipment to lift and slide the vehicle into the correct alignment for the track underneath each axle could be dropped onto a wheelskate and the vehicle drawn at walking pace out of the site. There woulsd obviously be no way of creating air and thus brakes but an emergency overnight possession would grant the engineers the ability to recover the vehicle onto skates.
Front 3 carriages will be lifted out by crane, the rear set will be hauled back to Kirkdale by a Class 67
 

Wezz

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There has just been an ECS move from Kirkby to Kirkdale depot, running as 5K48. Was this 507021 alone?
Was waiting for confirmation before responding, I believe that was 021 being taken back to Kirkdale, as to when the crane will be there to do the lifts, that could be tomorrow, Tuesday or Wednesday
 

507 001

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Just been updated again, the crane is coming tonight so the lift may take place in the early hours or tomorrow daytime.

Just spoken to the NR MOM who said the Crane is being used as a last resort. Hoping to drag it back on.
 

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