DfT Feb 25th (2014) meeting on Hull-Selby electrification

[YorkshireBear]

Well technically you may be correct. Legally you may be correct too.

.... but politically, no. Nobody backs out from this now. Everyone has far too much to lose. It will be done.

Look at the Valleys where now it seems like electrification is a distant pipe dream.

 

[anthony263]

I think hopefully someone will knock some sne into the welsh government over this whole row.

I do see how it could be so bad for the WG to pay when we are getting borrowing powers.

 

[westv]

Well well. First electrification was confirmed and then the Siemens deal gets signed! I fell off my seat!

 

[northwichcat]

Well well. First electrification was confirmed and then the Siemens deal gets signed! I fell off my seat!

I think you should elaborate on that more considering this is a railway forum. In this thread that could be interpreted as Hull Trains signing an order with Siemens for new electric trains.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The Siemens deal is in reference to the wind turbine factory i believe?

 

[westv]

The Siemens deal is in reference to the wind turbine factory i believe?

I assumed that was common knowledge and didn't need an explanation.

 

[Bald Rick]

I assumed that was common knowledge....

Perhaps in Humberside.

 

[westv]

Perhaps in Humberside.

Humberwhere?
It was on the national news too.
Anyway, it's all clarified now.

 

[northwichcat]

Humberwhere?
It was on the national news too.
Anyway, it's all clarified now.

It was mentioned on the BBC News but they didn't mention Siemens had been contracted to do which is why I said you needed to say more than just 'the Siemens deal.'

 

[balne-wonderer]

Hull is the next place for investment on many fronts i'm sure of it

With the earlier talk of PFI's, I wonder if there might also be a Street Lighting overhaul on the cards, that would be of major interest!

 

[CdBrux]

Hull is the next place for investment on many fronts i'm sure of it

With the earlier talk of PFI's, I wonder if there might also be a Street Lighting overhaul on the cards, that would be of major interest!

And link them, plus the electrified railway, to use only power generated by these wind turbines?

 

[balne-wonderer]

And link them, plus the electrified railway, to use only power generated by these wind turbines?

Now there is an idea.

I noticed an incredible amount of ornate SL equipment in Hull on my visit so it would be a great job to work on.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And link them, plus the electrified railway, to use only power generated by these wind turbines?

In which case there would be some days without any trains...
Actually it would be interesting to know what the power consumption of an electrified railway line is, in comparison with the power generation capability of a wind farm.

 

[Darren R]

That should go down well: "First Hull Trains apologises for the cancellation of the train to London. This is due to it being a beautiful sunny day without a breath of wind. Normal services are expected to resume as soon as it gets windy."

 

[fgwrich]

That should go down well: "First Hull Trains apologises for the cancellation of the train to London. This is due to it being a beautiful sunny day without a breath of wind. Normal services are expected to resume as soon as it gets windy."

Well, it wouldn't be the first time Hull Trains has had to cancel because of nature - a few of the Ada's had a few problems in the past year or so when fields of something similar to dandelion heads got sucked into the radiators. Ooops.

 

[eastwestdivide]

In which case there would be some days without any trains...
Actually it would be interesting to know what the power consumption of an electrified railway line is, in comparison with the power generation capability of a wind farm.

A quick googling round gives...

1) a Network Rail document called "Consultation on Traction Electricity Consumption Rates for Train Operating Companies August 2008"

at this very long address

where they list consumption rates in kilowatt-hours per train-mile.

Sample default consumption rates:
319 4-car 12.75; 8-car 24.47
377 4-car 14.27; 8-car 27.41

or perhaps call it 20 kWh per train mile for a back of the envelope calculation.

2) Siemens produces turbines ranging from 2.3 to 6.0 MW.

3) The London Array wind farm is rated at 630 MW peak.

I'll leave it to a proper engineer to do some more calculations...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

A quick googling round gives...
I'll leave it to a proper engineer to do some more calculations...

Well found. I remember seeing it now.
Now where did I leave my maths head...

The Hull line will never be a big electricity consumer of course, unlike the WCML/ECML.
Maybe 5 trains at any one time east of Selby, perhaps 2MW overall draw.
Drax pumps out 4GW, so the London Array is about 16% of a Drax (when the wind is blowing).

 

[ainsworth74]

Well, it wouldn't be the first time Hull Trains has had to cancel because of nature - a few of the Ada's had a few problems in the past year or so when fields of something similar to dandelion heads got sucked into the radiators. Ooops.

That was Grand Central I believe rather than Hull Trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Selby-Hull is mentioned on an updated Network Rail site as a potential CP6 scheme, which they will be discussing with partners over the next 2 years. Harrogate-York is also mentioned but not Harrogate-Leeds!

http://betterrailway.co.uk/regions/north-east-yorkshire-and-east-midlands/

 

[swt_passenger]

That could also be interpreted as NR will wire to Hull after 2019, but only if a third party hasn't already done it. If you go back to the CP4 plans announcement, as an example wasn't there a big debate about why EWR wasn't mentioned anywhere, and then once DfT took it on board it suddenly appeared tacked on the end of the list of projects approved in the previous HLOS.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Selby-Hull is mentioned on an updated Network Rail site as a potential CP6 scheme, which they will be discussing with partners over the next 2 years. Harrogate-York is also mentioned but not Harrogate-Leeds!

http://betterrailway.co.uk/regions/north-east-yorkshire-and-east-midlands/

A poor set of promotional documents with no route detail that I can find.
You quote the LNE section which lists potential electrification schemes, but the LNW equivalent doesn't list any (eg Windermere, Bolton-Wigan).

I have just found a list of CP5 major projects and it's in the same vein of vague goodies without route information or project plans.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...nloadmedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=7864&SizeId=-1

 

[swt_passenger]

The detail will probably be in the CP5 version of their "Enhancements programme: statement of scope, outputs and milestones"

...which won't (on previous form) arrive on the website until some way through April, (this is the one that will be updated quarterly during the five years).

There will possibly be a closing statement for the CP4 plan published shortly as well.

 

[WatcherZero]

A poor set of promotional documents with no route detail that I can find.
You quote the LNE section which lists potential electrification schemes, but the LNW equivalent doesn't list any (eg Windermere, Bolton-Wigan).

I have just found a list of CP5 major projects and it's in the same vein of vague goodies without route information or project plans.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...nloadmedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=7864&SizeId=-1

Those two examples wont be in CP6 or beyond as they are both committed in CP5 though arent they?

 

[Stats]

Could the Chancellor this morning have hinted at an announcement on this imminently?

I’ve committed £600 million to the Northern Hub, which will cut journey times on trains between Manchester, Leeds, Bradford and Sheffield.

I want now to properly hook up Hull to our national network too.

 

[PhilipW]

Could the Chancellor this morning have hinted at an announcement on this imminently?

Well, let's hope so. The prospect of Trans Pennine trains to Hull being diesel hauled because the last few miles from Selby to Hull are not wired is a complete nonsense. This final piece of wiring has appeared as a no-brainer to most people bar the DfT.

I'm sure it will get wired eventually. If George Osborne's speech today hurries things up, just great.

 

[HSTEd]

TPE could just order a fleet of bi-modes, as they are now all the rage.

 

[westv]

I want 125mph running from Hull to London.

 

[Nean]

Here's hoping that if it is electrified Northern will put their oar in as well and use electric trains on some services... Though I doubt it will be many that could without additional electrification (I can't remember if the Sherburn & Ulleskelf like is on the list)

 

[Starmill]

It's thoroughly depressing that this thread has been trundling along since February basically saying "an announcement could be just around the corner" - five months of it now.

Is it being F-ing well electrified or not!?

 

[IanXC]

It's thoroughly depressing that this thread has been trundling along since February basically saying "an announcement could be just around the corner" - five months of it now.

Is it being F-ing well electrified or not!?

The current state if play is that GRIP3 funding has been agreed. However all the parties seem to be continuing as if it will happen. For instance the Humber LEP transport documents include dates for start on site, and infrastructure ready to use...