-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Difference in restrictions between 16 - 25 and Senior Railcards
- Thread starter Qwerty133
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
After 40 years of work, and raising the next generation, I think those 60+ deserve a little back.
Qwerty133
Established Member
It is absurd that students couldn't get a discount to travel to a lecture being taught by someone who could...
The differences in policy between the 16-25 and Senior railcards do make sense, at least within the Network Railcard area:
Senior Railcard holders making journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area cannot obtain discount on tickets used to travel before the Off Peak Day Return is valid. This prevents use for commuting to work.
16-25 Railcard holders can get discount led fares at any time subject to the £12 minimum fare. At face value this seems unfair as under 25 year olds can get discounted fares to commute to work in the morning (if the undiscounted fare is more then c£18). However this helps under 25 year olds who probably earn a far lower wage than older workers and who are less likely to be able to afford the upfront price of a season ticket. I can’t see this being changed given that the Government wishes to help younger people with the cost of living.
Senior Railcard holders making journeys wholly within the Network Railcard area cannot obtain discount on tickets used to travel before the Off Peak Day Return is valid. This prevents use for commuting to work.
16-25 Railcard holders can get discount led fares at any time subject to the £12 minimum fare. At face value this seems unfair as under 25 year olds can get discounted fares to commute to work in the morning (if the undiscounted fare is more then c£18). However this helps under 25 year olds who probably earn a far lower wage than older workers and who are less likely to be able to afford the upfront price of a season ticket. I can’t see this being changed given that the Government wishes to help younger people with the cost of living.
Is it worth re-hashing this argument again and again? They are far more likely to have more money at their disposal than someone who is 18.
Even if we did redo that debate (and I feel nobody would have their mind changed) there is no sense in which the lack of a minimum fare is there to 'give a little back' to people over 60. It's purely there as a commercial consideration. Also, they are restricted in the South East in a way that 16-25 railcards are not.
If the minimum fare is going up, how about letting us have our 1/3 off First walkup fares as well as just advances? 
And they have paid far more in taxes to support the railways during their working life.
Someone just starting their career 20 or 30 years ago is a in far better place than now to get a job that allows them to pay those taxes.
As I said this argument is pointless, I do not agree with you and you are unlikely to agree with me. All the same your attempt to link a point about inter-generational fairness to the railcard restrictions, which are a commercial tool, is entirely fallacious.
As I said this argument is pointless, I do not agree with you and you are unlikely to agree with me. All the same your attempt to link a point about inter-generational fairness to the railcard restrictions, which are a commercial tool, is entirely fallacious.
If the minimum fare is going up, how about letting us have our 1/3 off First walkup fares as well as just advances?
If this were permitted, the total amount of money I spend on fares in a year would go up, not down.
Imagine I'm travelling from Sheffield to Derby and back on the same day, which is something I have done before and might want to do again. With a 16-25 railcard, Standard class is £7.60 and First Class is £17.30. I might pay for First Class as a special treat at the factor of 2.3 but for a journey as short as this. I would almost always just choose Standard and pay the £7.60. However, to someone with a Senior railcard the First Class fare is just £11.40. For just £3.80 more, even though it's a short journey, I would almost certainly just choose First Class.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Why the deliberate citing of different railcard users just to make a point of comparison in non-railway related matters. Just be thankful that railcards of any description actually exist.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I am sure that many lecturers are not of an age where they qualify for the use of a Senior Citizen Railcard. Have matters changed in this respect in the 51 years since I left Manchester University in 1966?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Personally, I think there should be one set of Railcard discount levels and T&Cs. This would allow a massive simplification of discounts - there would need only to be adult, Railcard and child.
Harbouring
Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 262
The disabled railcard does provide some benefits that are useful for to disabled people, buying on board, able to get railcard fares for a companion, useful if asking someone to relieve a priority seat, cheaper but harder to get. The rest are much of a muchness.
paddington
Member
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 964
At my university, we often had to travel to another campus during lunchtime (50 minutes by bus or 40 minutes by tube + walking) for "the convenience of the lecturers" based at different campuses. Why they couldn't schedule all lectures at a single campus in one day beats me.
'Creaming It' were the words you were looking for.....
Joe Paxton
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Jan 2017
- Messages
- 2,468
And having paid a higher proportion of their income in tax and pension contributions in the 1970s and 1980s.
chorleyjeff
Member
- Joined
- 3 May 2013
- Messages
- 677
Only the elite few got any full time education after age 18 and most people left school at 16 to start work - no gap years or three years fun but night school or home study to get qualifications, mortgage rates in double figures and pensions that were paid for from age 16 if there was a works pension. Otherwise the miserly old age pension.
The sense of entitlement from some young folk is astounding.
chorleyjeff
Member
- Joined
- 3 May 2013
- Messages
- 677
No. Working hard from age 16. I do not recall much in the way of "cream".
chorleyjeff
Member
- Joined
- 3 May 2013
- Messages
- 677
And paying tax to support a few elite so they could go on and earn lots of money. The elite would include those who though slightly dim had family or other connections that got them to uni. for free.
BluePenguin
On Moderation
I couldn't agree more! I believe it should be equal. Students deserve the discount just as much as a pentioner for the same reason - they generally have less money. So why there is a cap on requiring students to spend MORE money before they can save I don't know. Whether the ticket costs £2 or £8, when it comes to that 34% discount, every little helps when it comes to saving cash as a student.
A 60+ year old lecturer who is still teaching at their age is surely an exception to others. The railcard will not save them as much as other OAPs and they are not the railcard's target market. In contrast the 16-25 is the target market of those over 25 who are students hence why it is offered to them.
Although oldies deserve something back from the system they have paid thousands into, they already receieve free bus travel. Trains are not in the same category really
Yes so entitled. Hoping to own their own homes (or even just afford to rent somewhere), raise a family, have decently paid and secure employment. How very dare they.
I'm 30 and started paid employment at the age of 14. Don't lecture me on working hard.
Joe Paxton
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Jan 2017
- Messages
- 2,468
Ah, the delights of intergenerational conflict!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That would make it the year 2001 when you were 14. What was your paid employment in that period of time.
This isn’t the case in the south east as I explain in my earlier post. The current restrictions make perfect sense in that part of the country.
Joe Paxton
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Jan 2017
- Messages
- 2,468
The classic is a paper round.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I am not sure of the legal niceties here, so can anyone confirm that a young person of 14 in Britain can be legally said to be an employee in legalistic terminology?
- Status