DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

[Taunton]

Agreed on the front seats, incredibly popular with just about everyone.

I do like the look of this new train, I'll reserve full judgement for when I get on one of them, but I like what I see so far. If the front seats go, then I will be disappointed for sure but I will like the DLR for its rapid transit and things like the massive bridges etc around West India Quay amongst other things.

As a daily user I can tell you that the "front" seats are not only popular at the front end itself for the view, but also mid-train, particularly in the more modern ones which have been reduced to sideways seating in the main saloon. In a 3-unit train there are thus six of the end saloons with these seats. The new trains have swept away the whole lot.

Those from outside London may not be aware of a current high-profile TfL campaign against "staring" between passengers (see below). It does seem counter-intuitive that just as this is being pursued, another department of TfL rips out the transverse seats where this can't happen, and replaces them by all longitudinal seats with long lines of passengers all arranged now to face one another. I mean, which other direction are you now supposed to look ...

https://www.itv.com/news/london/2022-04-19/rise-in-tube-passengers-reported-to-police-for-intrusive-staring

 

[Techniquest]

I haven't at present time for reading that article, but is it really such a big problem that an official campaign is needed? I'm not aware of this happening elsewhere!

I'm also surprised staring with intent is a thing, given the attachment people have with their devices these days!

Staring with intent is certainly a problem, but I confess I didn't know it was widespread!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I haven't at present time for reading that article, but is it really such a big problem that an official campaign is needed? I'm not aware of this happening elsewhere!

I wonder how long before everyone is nicknaming these "CAF Innuendo"...?

 

[stuu]

Those from outside London may not be aware of a current high-profile TfL campaign against "staring" between passengers (see below). It does seem counter-intuitive that just as this is being pursued, another department of TfL rips out the transverse seats where this can't happen, and replaces them by all longitudinal seats with long lines of passengers all arranged now to face one another. I mean, which other direction are you now supposed to look ...

Seriously?

There is a campaign with 5 or 6 different low level dodgy behaviours are targeted, of which staring is one. People on the tube have coped for over a century without it being a problem, except when people deliberately do it

 

[Thirteen]

The staring campaign makes sense, it's not that you can't look at people at all, it's looking at people in a certain way. I admit I generally look at the phone or if I'm standing, I look out the window.

 

[ijmad]

I look at my phone, the floor, the adverts, down the train, or out a window between two peoples' heads when it's longitudinal seating.

It's really not hard to avoid staring directly at the person opposite you.

That said I know everyone prefers transverse, but it's not TfL's philosophy for short journeys. Standing space over seats.

t's literally impossible to take a journey on the DLR longer than around 30 minutes after all.

 

[Taunton]

The above seem to be looking at it just from their own perspective. For those who are being made uncomfortable, the current end compartments in each DLR car means nobody can be opposite looking at you. That is what is going.

 

[stuu]

The above seem to be looking at it just from their own perspective. For those who are being made uncomfortable, the current end compartments in each DLR car means nobody can be opposite looking at you. That is what is going.

No, but the people that is aimed at aren't limited to longitudinal seating, are they? People can be standing and still staring or behaving inappropriately, just as they can on transverse seats

 

[william.martin]

Will you still be able to sit in the front seats looking really smug saying "I'm a train driver"?

 

[thomalex]

I personally like the way the Met line does transverse seating with which seems to be a good balance between providing standing room and a range of seating options. As others have said people seem to prefer transverse seating when it is offered so why not provide this?

 

[TRAX]

I personally like the way the Met line does transverse seating with which seems to be a good balance between providing standing room and a range of seating options. As others have said people seem to prefer transverse seating when it is offered so why not provide this?

View attachment 129056

Because the priority of mass transport is to fit in as many people as possible, not catering to every person’s seating preferences.
Plus the people who would like mass transport to do so are also the first to complain if they have to wait for the next train because the one they wanted to take has no more room available, due to too many seats taking up too much standing space.

 

[ijmad]

I personally like the way the Met line does transverse seating with which seems to be a good balance between providing standing room and a range of seating options. As others have said people seem to prefer transverse seating when it is offered so why not provide this?

Maximum journey time on the Met is over an hour, over twice as long as the maximum journey time on the DLR.

Same with Elizabeth Line, there are journeys approaching 2 hours, so a smattering of transverse seating is provided for the few trying to travel from Maidenhead to Brentwood or similar.

 

[ScotGG]

Also future growth on the DLR I expect vastly outstrips many other parts of London and surrounding areas.

See Stratford, Canary Wharf, Lewisham and Woolwich

 

[ijmad]

Also future growth on the DLR I expect vastly outstrips many other parts of London and surrounding areas.

See Stratford, Canary Wharf, Lewisham and Woolwich

Plus these trains will likely service an extension to Thamesmead during their operational lifespan

 

[Taunton]

Because the priority of mass transport is to fit in as many people as possible, not catering to every person’s seating preferences.

The DLR is not really a "fit in as many" operation. If they were in any way concerned about maximum capacity they would not have recently cut all the trains from Canning Town to The City back from longstanding three to two cars, at all times, without any change in frequency.

The only place I know where people cannot get in is Canning Town eastbound, where desperation to close the doors to avoid reporting any 30-second delay to TfL (done automatically at this level by the ATO system) leads to people being left behind, especially unfamiliar travellers to Excel.

 

[TRAX]

The DLR is not really a "fit in as many" operation.

What is it, then ? A 30-minute-headway regional railway ?

 

[ijmad]

The DLR is not really a "fit in as many" operation. If they were in any way concerned about maximum capacity they would not have recently cut all the trains from Canning Town to The City back from longstanding three to two cars, at all times, without any change in frequency.

The reason they did this is because they don't have enough stock to run everything full length. Hence why they are buying these new trains.

 

[Taunton]

The reason they did this is because they don't have enough stock to run everything full length. Hence why they are buying these new trains.

I believe there are three units now out of service. Setting aside why, the Beckton and Woolwich trains to The City appear to require six trains each, 12 in total, all of which have now lost a unit. They ran full length and frequency all through Lockdown, with virtually nobody in them.

 

[stuu]

The DLR is not really a "fit in as many" operation. If they were in any way concerned about maximum capacity they would not have recently cut all the trains from Canning Town to The City back from longstanding three to two cars, at all times, without any change in frequency.

The only place I know where people cannot get in is Canning Town eastbound, where desperation to close the doors to avoid reporting any 30-second delay to TfL (done automatically at this level by the ATO system) leads to people being left behind, especially unfamiliar travellers to Excel.

Unless the TFL press release is lying, the frequency between Canning Town and Beckton has been doubled, but at the expense of shorter trains. Presumably they have noticed lots of people switching to the EL at Custom House to head west and feel this is a better way of matching demand and capacity

 

[Taunton]

Unless the TFL press release is lying, the frequency between Canning Town and Beckton has been doubled, but at the expense of shorter trains. Presumably they have noticed lots of people switching to the EL at Custom House to head west and feel this is a better way of matching demand and capacity

A bizarre move, a shuttle on the quietest part of these routes, and furthermore where its busiest station, Custom House, has now lost much of its Excel Centre traffic to the Elizabeth. The shuttle leaves from the obscure remote DLR platform at Canning Town instead of the main one, which people tend not to walk over to. It does however serve the new Mayors' office at Royal Victoria, so probably scores some brownie points there. For the rest of us, and on the real main part of the routes into The City, it's a notable reduction.

 

[PGAT]

so a smattering of transverse seating is provided for the few trying to travel from Maidenhead to Brentwood or similar.

Being a bit pedantic here, Maidenhead trains will not be going to Shenfield

 

[stuu]

A bizarre move, a shuttle on the quietest part of these routes, and furthermore where its busiest station, Custom House, has now lost much of its Excel Centre traffic to the Elizabeth. The shuttle leaves from the obscure remote DLR platform at Canning Town instead of the main one, which people tend not to walk over to. It does however serve the new Mayors' office at Royal Victoria, so probably scores some brownie points there. For the rest of us, and on the real main part of the routes into The City, it's a notable reduction.

Somewhat contradictory messages there

 

[Thirteen]

I suspect most people who use the DLR aren't going to care that much if the seating of the B23 Stock is longitudinal, they'll just see it's a nice shiny new train that gets them from A to B.

 

[TRAX]

I suspect most people who use the DLR aren't going to care that much if the seating of the B23 Stock is longitudinal, they'll just see it's a nice shiny new train that gets them from A to B.

And a small majority of people won’t even notice they’re on a new train…

 

[ijmad]

Being a bit pedantic here, Maidenhead trains will not be going to Shenfield

Oh I know, but you're still gonna be sitting on a 345 for all but your 2 minute change at Whitechapel

 

[LULDave74]

It will be nice to actually see one of these new DLR trains in action

 

[BecontreeD]

.

 

[DanNCL]

Didn't take long!

Took longer than the more recent arrival for the Tyne & Wear Metro took!

 

[Thirteen]

Couldn't the little scrotes have waited until they were in service?

 

[ijmad]

I guess they preferred the black and red livery too