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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

Kay_M

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Back in October, TfL Board papers said 25 were built

I am guessing must be nearer 35 out of the 54 built now (although built doesn't mean have completed tests and ready for shipping).

From memory TfL asked for delayed shipping as the company building the sidings went bust, so didn't have enough space to receive them.
I see. Cheers for that


If this question has been answered already then my apologies however when the B23 stock has fully rolled out will the Stratford to Canary Wharf/Lewisham branch remain as it is with two cars using the existing B07 stock or will it be the full length B23 stock.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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I see. Cheers for that


If this question has been answered already then my apologies however when the B23 stock has fully rolled out will the Stratford to Canary Wharf/Lewisham branch remain as it is with two cars using the existing B07 stock or will it be the full length B23 stock.
The former, its been reported.
 

Thirteen

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The B07s I suspect will probably be temporarily taken off out of service for a refurb once the B23s are fully in service
 

ijmad

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I think I'd rather go frequency over train length, personally speaking.

DLR being an isolated system with mostly flying junctions and system-wide CBTC control makes that a much easier proposition than the main lines.

Perhaps at some point in the next decade when the next DLR extension finds funding (Thamesmead? who knows), they can acquire a few extra trains along with whatever is needed for the new branch.

In the mean time, having the B23s will be an absolute step change in capacity for the DLR. Particularly the all-day Stratford to Lewisham service and more trains to Beckton will be welcome, as well as more full length trains overall since the B23s by design will obviously always be full length.
 
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Thirteen

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I think I'd rather go frequency over train length, personally speaking.

DLR being an isolated system with mostly flying junctions and system-wide CBTC control makes that a much easier proposition than the main lines.

Perhaps at some point in the next decade when the next DLR extension finds funding (Thamesmead? who knows), they can acquire a few extra trains along with whatever is needed for the new branch.

In the mean time, having the B23s will be an absolute step change in capacity for the DLR. Particularly the all-day Stratford to Lewisham service and more trains to Beckton will be welcome, as well as more full length trains overall since the B23s by design will obviously always be full length.
They have 54 B23s and part of those will be used for the proposed extension.
 

ijmad

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They have 54 B23s and part of those will be used for the proposed extension.

As I understood it, 33 trains was the original order to replace the B9Xs/B2Ks, then 10 trains were ordered for network growth, and 11 more were funded through the Government’s Housing Infrastructure Fund but that wasn't for Thamesmead, it was for extra capacity in the Thames Wharf area. ICBW but I don't think any of the ordered 54 trains area earmarked for Thamesmead. Here's a source backing this up.

Though I suppose it's possible that only a couple of extra trains would be needed for relatively short extension, which might be possible to find through fleet reliability improvements.
 

Taunton

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Part of the project is rearrangement of the main depot at Beckton, which has led to weekend (including Fridays) restrictions of services. Today this was exacerbated by a train breakdown, actually a rare DLR event, somewhere on the Woolwich branch in the morning peak.

Unfortunately a bit of "headless chickens mode" developed. At Canning Town a train which entered running Wrong Line had three separate destinations showing, one on the platform describer, another on the train cars, and a third being bawled out on the train PA. I didn't know the automated signalling was actually capable of that, and in fact the scrolling message at the bottom of the platform describer was giving a fourth, different again, version of events.

Considerable chaos on the platform particularly by those headed to, and indeed from, City Airport. Lift overwhelmed. One of the part-time platform "Event staff", who only come when something significant is on at Excel, was actually doing a very good job of understanding it all and giving directions to incessant questions. Notably more so than another, who by their seniority title on their hi-viz, should surely have been in a position to Take Charge. But they stayed silent.

Notwithstanding the restricted output from the Beckton depot, there were six cars idle at the Poplar depot throat from before all this started, which would have been quite useful in overcoming the restricted service plan. One got the feeling it was all rather the B Team on duty on the ops side.
 

Kay_M

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Hopefully the rollout will be smooth. Not too long to go now and whilst the B90/92/2K stock has served us well over the years they are showing their age now. I personally will miss them where they're gone.
 

ScotGG

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The rollout is already late after issues in testing. Hopefully soon
 

Lockwood

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Nah, they are going to invest in the stock but not use it except for a single Poplar to Bank and back each day. Maybe find some way to drag them to unelectrified sidings?
 

Kay_M

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Nah, they are going to invest in the stock but not use it except for a single Poplar to Bank and back each day. Maybe find some way to drag them to unelectrified sidings?
Is that for the B23 stock?
 

Lockwood

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It was a flippant suggestion about what could happen with the B23 stock based on what has happened with other stock in London.

It is in no way accurate.
 

Kay_M

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Latest TfL Board Commissioners report (page 13) has update on the B23 and says 30 trains have been built and in various stages of testing

(long multi-column document, with pictures and charts, so not practical to quote it)

Thank you for the link. Just 13 more of the original order left to be built and then the extended batch can begin to be built and then hopefully we start to see a drip feed of them entering service soon
 

Peter Mugridge

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There was something on Twitter a few days ago suggesting the introduction has been delayed at least 6 months.

No... I can't remember who tweeted it, and I'll not be able to find it again by now...
 

SynthD

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New trains on the DLR £61million over budget and facing nine-month delay​

Blow to commuters in south and east London as new walk-through trains hit by delays
The £880 million introduction of new air-conditioned trains on the Docklands Light Railway has been delayed and is running £61 million over budget.

Transport for London had hoped to start introducing the walk-through trains by April, increasing capacity and frequency on the network that carries 99 million passengers a year across south and east London.
But the arrival of the first new train into passenger service has been pushed back until “later this year”, meaning it could be six to nine months late.
It comes as plans to open a new DLR station at Thames Wharf, south of Canning Town and near City Hall, have been “paused” due to a lack of cash. The station will only be built if housing developers contribute. The delay in introducing the new trains has been caused by difficulties integrating the braking system on the driverless trains with the track signalling system — while enabling the existing DLR trains to keep running.

A new train slid beyond a stopping point during testing. A number of the new trains, which are painted teal, have been seen for months undergoing testing without passengers on board.
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: “Bringing any new fleet of trains in is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure and the existing fleet.”
The delay means that the DLR’s existing fleet, some of which is 30 years old, is having to remain in service for longer than expected. Some trains only have two rather than three carriages as a result.

However, TfL chiefs insist all of the 54 new trains, which are being built by CAF in Spain and will have five carriages, will be running by the end of “summer 2026”. Eleven of the new trains have been funded by the Government.
Stuart Harvey, TfL’s chief capital officer, said: “The delivery of the new trains is going well. The manufacturers are ahead of programme. We have encountered an issue with the way the signalling system on the train and the braking system is working.
“We now fully understand it. It is complex. Importantly, we remain on track to get all the trains into service by summer 2026.”

The new trains also feature improved accessibility, USB chargers and real-time travel information. A total of 30 new trains are in various stages of testing. The first arrived in January last year.

TfL has also faced difficulties constructing new sidings at Beckton depot, due to a contractor entering administration, and is having to upgrade the DLR’s power supply.
The upgrade will replace the 33 oldest trains of the existing red and blue fleet and increase capacity by 60 per cent. Peak-hour services to Canary Wharf and City Airport are often overcrowded.
Arran Rusling, TfL’s head of programme for DLR rolling stock replacement, said: “We encountered some complex challenges, which means we will introduce the new trains into passenger service later this year.
“We are still on track to introduce all 54 of these new trains in passenger service by 2026.”
A TfL spokesperson said: “The insolvency of Buckingham Group, the principal contractor delivering the initial stages of the infrastructure work to extend Beckton depot, along with higher-than-expected inflation, mean that the estimated final costs to complete the scheme have risen.

"However we are actively reviewing opportunities to minimise this increase and will provide a further update at a future programmes and investment committee, where we will seek additional funding if required.”
TfL retains the longer-term ambition to expand the DLR network to new stations at Beckton Riverside and Thamesmead – via a new tunnel under the Thames – by the “early 2030s”, and potentially then on to Belvedere, if Government funding can be secured.
 
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I do seriously hope the B90/92/2K stock can hold out for a little bit longer because they're really starting to show their age.
Feel free to move this to a separate thread if its justified, but as i'm down to needing only 2 of the older trains for 'Haulage', can someone in the know compile a list of those sets which are out of service at Beckton? Similar to that in the TW Metro Thread
Cheers
 

JCO1406

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Has there been anymore updates about the testing and when we could see the first one start service?
 

Snow1964

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Taunton

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Has there been anymore updates about the testing and when we could see the first one start service?
Testing seems to have been given up for now. I wonder if the CAF team have gone back to Spain. Before too long it will be two years since the first one was delivered.

The TfL board papers are usually nothing more than bland statements. There's been no actual engineering description of what the problem(s) actually are, or whose financial liability they are.
 

DanNCL

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Testing seems to have been given up for now. I wonder if the CAF team have gone back to Spain. Before too long it will be two years since the first one was delivered.

The TfL board papers are usually nothing more than bland statements. There's been no actual engineering description of what the problem(s) actually are, or whose financial liability they are.
There has been some testing recently but it’s still entirely in possessions.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Feel free to move this to a separate thread if its justified, but as i'm down to needing only 2 of the older trains for 'Haulage', can someone in the know compile a list of those sets which are out of service at Beckton? Similar to that in the TW Metro Thread
Cheers
Which two do you need? If you post them, then anyone who is out and about would be able to give a live update if they see them.
 
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Which two do you need? If you post them, then anyone who is out and about would be able to give a live update if they see them.
The ones I require are 03 and 42.
Just checking that these aren't long term OOU or similar
Don't get to go to London that often but when I do my trick is to spend aprox 50 mins at Poplar ( enough time to see all sets on Beckton and Canary Wharf) then move to Canning Town for 1/2 hr downstairs (Stratford Intl services) then back over to Canary Wharf for about 45 mins (Lewisham Units)
Next trip may be in December (or maybe November)
 

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