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DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)
- Thread starter TRAX
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R
RailUK Forums
Yes, the new fleet is being scrapped as decision has been made that the old stock should last as long as the Bakerloo line trains.
Just kidding. No, no news. I guess they have nothing to boast about so I expect further delays. Fleet introductions in this country has became a total joke.
Snow1964
Established Member
Appears to be morning of Wednesday 5th Feb, so papers likely to be issued next Tuesday evening
thank you for the humour this morning. I needed that
100andthirty
Member
In my career dealing with rolling stock projects, I learned that no news is bad news!
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The board report always seems to be complete boilerplate text waffle, nothing of substance, which the board members just say "OK then" to. Sometimes I wonder what's the point.
Issues like what is the actual technical problem, who is fixing it, have the manufacturers been paid the full amount, where are all the trains currently, are the earlier ones likely to be out of warranty before they are first used, and all that, just are glossed over and never addressed.
Issues like what is the actual technical problem, who is fixing it, have the manufacturers been paid the full amount, where are all the trains currently, are the earlier ones likely to be out of warranty before they are first used, and all that, just are glossed over and never addressed.
BecontreeD
Member
You're not wrong there.
I know it won't effect the DLR/LU, but when GBR comes along, it should look at what keeps going wrong with new fleet introductions and how the process can be improved.
Let's be honest, perfection every single time will never exist and GBR won't be be able to wave a magic wand and have fleet introductions that is always on time and on budget.
THC
Member
The juicy stuff will be in the part 2 agenda, which we plebs will never see. Standard public body governance.
THC
I fully agree, but these lengthy delays are becoming more frequent.
Look at the 701's, everything that has gone wrong with the introduction of these should be a learning curve, but it won't be.
Trains are getting ever more complex which just increases the potential "embuggerance" factor no end....
"Lessons will be learned", and then nothing further happens
Sure, but there is "delay" and there is "DELAY".
DLR is not yet where class 701 went, but we might just as well go to the same purgatory at some point.
I don't think the B23s will be like the 701s simply because there are still being built and accepted and we might find that once they are introduced that they come at a rapid pace.
Nym
Established Member
I'm sure Long Marston or that place near Newport with a really fancy name will have some space.
Nym
Established Member
Likely on a lorry, same as I'd expect they got onto the DLR in the first place, or just divert the delivery lorry to Newport or Long Marston.
Wouldn't be the first time given how much 1996TS ended up in Long Marston because LUL wasn't ready for it.
They've agreed with CAF to store them and delay delivery
www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk
DLR new train delays: Extra costs to Transport for London revealed - Murky Depths
Problems introducing new trains to the DLR have seen costs rise for Transport for London and still no start date
www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk
Was the partial DLR closure today actually for engineering works as stated on the TFL site, or was it for testing of the new trains?
I can confirm that there has been testing going on, I didn’t get any pictures as I was driving at the time.
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A B23 was spotted at Straford earlier so they're definitely doing some testing.
simple simon
Member
That screenshot just about confirms a rumour I heard ages ago claiming that a train had overshot a station.
There was a time when a train could be delivered in the morning and was carrying passengers late the same day. Is there too much technology today?
Maybe, once the trains are running, someone will ask 'why was there a problem?' - with a clear desire to learn lessons that can reduce the likelihood of similar issues with future new fleets of trains.
That said, when one remembers the problem with inward opening doors on the P86 DLR trains and that this problem had occurred many years earlier with tube trains, so it might be that even if an inquiry does identify what went wrong it wont guarantee that any lesson will be learnt in the future
I'm not sure things like that ever happened, things have to be tested to meet safety requirements.
simple simon
Member
In the 1920s when Standard Stock tube trains were delivered.
However, I do agree that nowadays there is a need to test that the trains do work properly - especially where automation is involved. That is what happened with the B23's - and when it was discovered that there was a problem.
As an aside, for the same reason every one of the automated Victoria line trains was tested on the (Hainault - Woodford) surface route before being deployed underground.
These are complex machines. While CAF have earned a reputation for mediocre production combined with shoddy support, they aren’t trying to deliver rubbish.
The lessons to learn are old ones about the importance of good design and the necessity of testing. They are so generic that, even where fully applied, they don’t fully insure against things going wrong.
Nym
Established Member
Is perhaps the issue not that the existing units are very closely paired with the signalling system (other than then B09s which accelerate faster than the signalling wants). And that perhaps the integration with the signalling is more complex than anyone at TfL thought or wanted it to be, given that the signalling is very much NOT a "Highly compatible" system in it's setup.