Do not travel warning from Chiltern!

[leytongabriel]

Sorry but isn't one of the advantages of rail transport supposed to be that trains can move large crowds away relatively quickly?
Perhaps the ability to put on extra services when needed should be built into some contracts.

 

[sammyg901]

To be fair to Chiltern they've put on multiple extras, got the hauled sets out etc. But a Wembley crowd from one of their stations (near enough) all wanting to board their trains home is pretty much impossible unless they'd cancelled all their services and had the fleet lined up waiting to go north (which would also mean cancellations tomorrow). They've got the rest of their travellers and network to consider

Looks like they held the 1956 Birmingham train for a few minutes, presumably to give it more chance of picking up a full load at Wembley now the match is over.

 

[Energy]

To be fair to Chiltern they've put on multiple extras, got the hauled sets out etc.

Chiltern haven't really had enough stock for a while, now they've got to handle being the only operator from Oxford to London as well. Its good that they've got the loco hauled fleet out, can't be much left inside Wembley Depot.

 

[87015]

They should be okay with the Euston services available. They're on late enough to Birmingham at least.

A good job Avanti are running

Yeah OK!? LNR effectively gave up, last beyond Northampton was 2038, all caped afterwards. Big event plan!

 

[gazzaa2]

Yeah OK!? LNR effectively gave up, last beyond Northampton was 2038, all caped afterwards. Big event plan!

You just can't rely on the trains anymore, a lot of Coventry fans stuck at Euston.

At the other end of the country in the north west, i've had to fork out for a cab earlier after waiting for hours for a train.

 

[PeteFLT]

Meanwhile over at STP, EMR are running a 4 coach connect service. Seems a bit mad!

 

[Larkhall]

Yeah OK!? LNR effectively gave up, last beyond Northampton was 2038, all caped afterwards. Big event plan!

They have a 2211 STP in place for COV, magicked out of somewhere

 

[12LDA28C]

Sorry but isn't one of the advantages of rail transport supposed to be that trains can move large crowds away relatively quickly?
Perhaps the ability to put on extra services when needed should be built into some contracts.

How do you suggest that is done? Have spare trains and drivers sat around just in case a football match runs to extra time? It doesn't really work like that.

 

[Energy]

How do you suggest that is done? Have spare trains and drivers sat around just in case a football match runs to extra time? It doesn't really work like that.

Drivers and trains shouldn't be too difficult. Wembley depot is right next door, sorting out pathing would be more difficult.

Looking at RTT Chiltern did a pretty good job, the trains following were 6 and 7 cars.

 

[Starmill]

I would've hoped that they'd been able to borrow some 170s from another operator...

From where, West Midlands Trains and CrossCountry? They could spare maybe one or two units between them or short form their own services? Then you'd also need to hire a driver and conductor to work them as well as the Chiltern crew.

 

[12LDA28C]

I would've hoped that they'd been able to borrow some 170s from another operator...

Drivers and trains shouldn't be too difficult. Wembley depot is right next door, sorting out pathing would be more difficult.

Again, it doesn't work like that. Chiltern can't just 'borrow some 170s from another operator' and a timetable has to be planned in advance. Hence Chiltern put a plan in place for today, working on the basis of the match finishing after 90 minutes. It's really not possible to recast the timetable to accommodate extra time.

 

[Starmill]

Drivers and trains shouldn't be too difficult. Wembley depot is right next door, sorting out pathing would be more difficult.

Yes, and the drivers and trains which were available were utilised...

 

[zwk500]

Again, it doesn't work like that. Chiltern can't just 'borrow some 170s from another operator' and a timetable has to be planned in advance. Hence Chiltern put a plan in place for today, working on the basis of the match finishing after 90 minutes. It's really not possible to recast the timetable to accommodate extra time.

Especially on a line like the Chiltern - Avanti have had Q paths in for ET/Pens before, but it causes no end of pain getting a plan to make it work, and that's with Euston's 16 (or may have been 18 then) platforms and 4 WCML tracks to play with.
Trying to get a Q path option in at Marylebone on a Chiltern Mainline already taking more than it should with the Nuneham viaduct issue would be a headache and a half! And that's for one train!

 

[Energy]

Yes, and the drivers and trains which were available were utilised...

Probably should have looked at RTT before hand, the tone on here made it sound like they didn't do a lot when they actually put a lot on. Maybe I'm too used to West Midlands Railway putting on a 2 car 172 whenever there is a big event at the Coventry Arena

Hence Chiltern put a plan in place for today, working on the basis of the match finishing after 90 minutes. It's really not possible to recast the timetable to accommodate extra time.

I'm well aware of the timetable being an issue. Why would staff from other TOCs be needed?

 

[12LDA28C]

Probably should have looked at RTT before hand, the tone on here made it sound like they didn't do a lot when they actually put a lot on. Maybe I'm too used to West Midlands Railway putting on a 2 car 172 whenever there is a big event at the Coventry Arena

I'm well aware of the timetable being an issue. Why would staff from other TOCs be needed?

Class 170s from other operators will be different to those operated by Chiltern and so Chiltern drivers would not sign them. Drivers from the TOC which supplied the 170s could in theory drive them but they would not sign the route and would need to be conducted by a Chiltern driver. In essence, it just wouldn't happen.

 

[Energy]

Class 170s from other operators will be different to those operated by Chiltern and so Chiltern drivers would not sign them. Drivers from the TOC which supplied the 170s could in theory drive them but they would not sign the route and would need to be conducted by a Chiltern driver. In essence, it just wouldn't happen.

Fair enough, how was this handled when the Northern 150s were sent out to TfW?

 

[12LDA28C]

Fair enough, how was this handled when the Northern 150s were sent out to TfW?

I have no idea, were they sent for a period of time or just for one day to provide extra capacity for a football match?

 

[BucksBones]

Absolute chaos and dangerous overcrowding at Euston tonight. No LNR trains apart from the extra Cov special (which was itself crush loaded) for 2 hours between 9 &11 pm. Horrific. What a night for it all to go belly up.

 

[Krokodil]

Fair enough, how was this handled when the Northern 150s were sent out to TfW?

Quite a lot of work beforehand to check that they were electrically compatible with TfW's own fleet (they were, which won't be the case at Chiltern). Crew-wise just a notice detailing the differences.

 

[sammyg901]

They did have a couple of services with multiple paths - there was an VST originally to Hatton than was ran as a VST to Warwick Parkway later instead and a 7 car unadvertised express to Birmingham ran in it's later path.

They also held a Birmingham service for a few minutes to align with the end of penalties

Looks like they did the best they could considering Saturday is anyway a very busy day on Chiltern (and the railways generally!) and they needed to keep everyone moving

 

[gazzaa2]

Absolute chaos and dangerous overcrowding at Euston tonight. No LNR trains apart from the extra Cov special (which was itself crush loaded) for 2 hours between 9 &11 pm. Horrific. What a night for it all to go belly up.

Kings Cross was the same last year with Nottingham Forest fans after their play off final. The railway not in a good way to cope with extra demand anymore.

Tomorrow will be bad with the Sheffield/Barnsley fan,

 

[Howardh]

Kings Cross was the same last year with Nottingham Forest fans after their play off final. The railway not in a good way to cope with extra demand anymore.

Tomorrow will be bad with the Sheffield/Barnsley fan,

If I were a fan I would probably drive to one of the tube stations on the outskirts of west London, eg Ruislip, and commute in from there; hoping to miss the masses. Is that a usual thing though and I'd be simply doing what everyone else does so not gaining any space on the tube?

 

[185143]

If I were a fan I would probably drive to one of the tube stations on the outskirts of west London, eg Ruislip, and commute in from there; hoping to miss the masses. Is that a usual thing though and I'd be simply doing what everyone else does so not gaining any space on the tube?

Can't drink then!

If I were a football fan heading to London for cup games ect, I'd be booking onto either a supporter's coach from the local pub, or Flix/Mega/NatEx.

 

[Route115?]

I would have thought that telling people to avoid trains around match times would have been very sensible. Surely travelling on an early morning train into London and a return train that goes through Wembley whilst the match was on would have been ok.

The other interesting issue is that it seems that most of the West Midlands trains out of Euston were cancelled - signalling problems in Northampton. Avanti were running two trains per hour to the West Midlands which I doubt would have been adequate. I don't know what actually happened (any reports) but sounds grim.

Of course the disruption at Northampton could not have been forecast.

 

[david_g]

One issue with "the most valuable game in world football" is the kick off time. Sky want it going out in prime teatime slot and they call the shots with the EFL. With ET, pens, joining in with the post match celebrations a 4.45 kick off turns into post 8pm leaving the ground. Getting out and to the train and you're looking at 8.30 without a queue. It puts a lot of pressure on fans, railway staff, stewards, police when everyone is getting anxious about seeing home that night. Been there, t-shirt worn.
Until someone has the cojones to stand up to Sky - "think of the fans" - and say it's either 3pm or you can have a televisual spectacle without supporters - see what sort of TV that makes for - it is always going to be a problem. Anyone for a massed boycott next year?

 

[Starmill]

Quite a lot of work beforehand to check that they were electrically compatible with TfW's own fleet (they were, which won't be the case at Chiltern). Crew-wise just a notice detailing the differences.

Also TfW's method of work for that Sprinter subtype is hardly any different to Northern's. Chiltern's is quite different for their Turbostar types to WMT and CrossCountry's. Hiring a crew to work them as well as the unit, and be conducted by a Chiltern driver, with no units working in multiple, would be the only realistic option. Even then just as you say there'd be quite a bit of paperwork to check.

 

[zwk500]

Until someone has the cojones to stand up to Sky - "think of the fans" - and say it's either 3pm or you can have a televisual spectacle without supporters - see what sort of TV that makes for - it is always going to be a problem. Anyone for a massed boycott next year?

The Pandemic showed exactly what Sky's response would be to that, sadly.

 

[Jamiescott1]

If I were a fan I would probably drive to one of the tube stations on the outskirts of west London, eg Ruislip, and commute in from there; hoping to miss the masses. Is that a usual thing though and I'd be simply doing what everyone else does so not gaining any space on the tube?

When I lived in wycombe alot of Northern teams playing at Wembley the supporters would drive to wycombe and train it from there

 

[Mcr Warrior]

When I lived in wycombe alot of Northern teams playing at Wembley the supporters would drive to wycombe and train it from there

Indeed, although I guess yesterday, you would probably have had to avoid the trains originating from the Northern end of the Chiltern network.

 

[20Man]

My wife and I live in High Wycombe (HWY) and had tickets for a motorcycle show in London yesterday and had already got my ticket, my wife has a season ticket.

I saw the Chiltern posts about not travelling so we travelled up extra early, on the 06:10 from HWY which comes from Aylesbury, a very pleasant journey on a near empty 6 car 168.

As Jamie above said, many fans drive to HWY to travel to Wembley, either staying overnight as the hotels are cheaper than London or drive down on the day, so we were aware the later trains would be very busy, also many fans go into London during the day before going to the match.

We then travelled back while the match was playing on the 18:02.

Chiltern had some trains starting from Banbury to London, but I guess some fans would have driven there, as it's a short run down the M40, so I didn't want to risk those.