Doncaster Sheffield Airport to reopen?

[mpthomson]

I think you'd only need to transfer all services from Leeds Bradford, but I get your point.

No airline is going to do that as certainly for Ryanair and Jet2 they then have 3 bases all with overlapping catchments whilst leaving a decent population chunk outside a catchment area. That makes zero financial sense. No-one is going to move from LBA to DSA, that's why it never got beyond a slack handful of flights. And the reason it was a great passenger experience is because it had hardly any flights.

 

[Killingworth]

Isn't it the truth that the pleas to retore DSA are primarily coming from Doncaster who's Mayor is a very effective advocate, whereas the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority Mayor has yet to establish himself, but is desperate not to be seen as over riding Doncaster's ambition by spending money elsewhere.

A political football indeed where Whitehall will stand back and let them get on with it - to likely mutual detriment.

 

[thejuggler]

It's all about attempted porkbarreling in certain areas to shore up at least some of the Tory vote. It helps that Leeds Bradford was built on a very poorly chosen site (the former RAF Church Fenton would have been a much better choice), but ultimately it's a sop to the people of the area to say "look we are delivering for your area, vote for us".

RAF Church Fenton would have been as successful as DSA. Leeds Bradford works because it is near Leeds and Bradford. The first Leeds Bradford 'airport' was actually at Rawdon Meadows!

 

[pug1]

Isn't it the truth that the pleas to retore DSA are primarily coming from Doncaster who's Mayor is a very effective advocate, whereas the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority Mayor has yet to establish himself, but is desperate not to be seen as over riding Doncaster's ambition by spending money elsewhere.

A political football indeed where Whitehall will stand back and let them get on with it - to likely mutual detriment.

It’s not clear at the moment. The funding package to update the tram network in Sheffield is I believe taking the lions share of the HS2 funding available to SYMCA following its cancellation. But this must be spent on green and sustainable transport initiatives so the airport wouldn’t qualify. Seems that the idea at the moment is to reopen the airport using the Doncaster allocated gainshare and borrowing against the future payments, he had attempted to gain the £30m allocated by Government for the planned rail link on the Doncaster-Lincoln line (which in itself is a non starter!) but SoS Mark Harper had rejected that on the basis of its not what the funding was granted for, and also it may not qualify for the reasons outlined earlier.

We know the funding is available, we don’t know how much the Council are offering. There is still no lease agreement with Peel, we’ve heard for months that a deal is close… We don’t know who has made the shortlist to win tender to operate the airport on behalf of the Council, but it’s becoming increasingly apparent that some burden of financial risk will fall to the successful bidder, not sure if that’s an attractive proposition. Airports are capital intensive, they will continuously need to reinvest in runway repairs, infrastructure and security that tends to change frequently with new regulations. The overheads are therefore very high and the revenue sources are minimal so they need to reach a critical mass to be able to have a chance of covering their costs, DSA is just too big and competes with too many other airports to be able to get a foot in properly. Thats why Peel closed it and short of a radical redirection (I.e a much smaller operation with minimal focus on passenger/freight operations) then I fail to see how things would be any better should it be successful in reopening.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Realistically, you’d have a task requesting all airlines to move to DSA with EMA still open as Ryanair and Jet2 have bases at EMA, besides, the other issue is that it just makes Manchester more attractive to West Yorkshire passengers, and this is the catch 22 situation.

Manchester is a long slog over the M62 and M60, the drop off rules are ridiculous and the train service is unreliable. Why would people go to Manchester unless they had to?
DSA is not that close to EMA to abstract a lot of traffic, Sheffield would get some heading for EMA, but that is still an hour's drive away.

Its more the case of some South Yorkshire politicians using it as a football, the government are pretty clear that its a non-starter.

Then what was the purpose of the government giving funding for studies to look into DSA reopening?

No airline is going to do that as certainly for Ryanair and Jet2 they then have 3 bases all with overlapping catchments whilst leaving a decent population chunk outside a catchment area. That makes zero financial sense. No-one is going to move from LBA to DSA, that's why it never got beyond a slack handful of flights. And the reason it was a great passenger experience is because it had hardly any flights.

I agree in the current circumstances, but if LBA was closed completely, it's a better location for a Yorks airport long term.

RAF Church Fenton would have been as successful as DSA. Leeds Bradford works because it is near Leeds and Bradford. The first Leeds Bradford 'airport' was actually at Rawdon Meadows!

It's also up a moor, close to several sizeable towns, and has poor ground transport connections.
Church Fenton would have been 20 mins on the train from Leeds station, 15 mins from the A1(M) and much better placed for medium/long distance travellers (including Yorkshire as a whole, not just West Yorks).

 

[Bantamzen]

Then what was the purpose of the government giving funding for studies to look into DSA reopening?

I was under the impression that the money for studies was agreed by the South Yorkshire Combined Authority, not the government? In any case, its the local council that continues to push for money to be allocated to re-open the airport, despite it never making a profit & ultimately failing. DSA has become Doncaster Council's vanity project, but they seem blissfully unaware just how much it would cost to get open, let alone into profit despite. And if/when it does get shut down, they can blame the government despite having wasted millions trying to justify it's opening.

 

[westv]

Manchester is a long slog over the M62 and M60, the drop off rules are ridiculous and the train service is unreliable. Why would people go to Manchester unless they had to?
DSA is not that close to EMA to abstract a lot of traffic, Sheffield would get some heading for EMA, but that is still an hour's drive away.

Does anybody like going via Manchester airport other than people who live there?! I've not heard a good word for it from anybody I've spoken to and the consensus is they only use it because they have to.

 

[pug1]

Manchester is a long slog over the M62 and M60, the drop off rules are ridiculous and the train service is unreliable. Why would people go to Manchester unless they had to?
DSA is not that close to EMA to abstract a lot of traffic, Sheffield would get some heading for EMA, but that is still an hour's drive away.

Whilst that is undoubtedly the case, it is an indisputable fact that Manchester does have and always will have the most choice and offers the most flexibility on destinations, frequency of flights and ultimately cost over and above other airports in the north and midlands. DSA is very close to EMA, let’s not forget that airlines want large catchment areas and EMA pretty much serves from Leicester to the south up to Sheffield in the North as its core catchment area within an hour. DSA serves primarily fields on most sides and is at the periphery of the urban area it purports to serve. So people just chase the cheaper fares and flexibility offered by other airports. In short it offers nothing to airlines in terms of a large diverse customer base and would cause overlap of that market if they were to try to serve both/all three. That’s why it failed to take off under Peel and it’s fundamentally why it will struggle no matter who owns it whilst there is still the other airports vying for the same passengers.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I was under the impression that the money for studies was agreed by the South Yorkshire Combined Authority, not the government? In any case, its the local council that continues to push for money to be allocated to re-open the airport, despite it never making a profit & ultimately failing. DSA has become Doncaster Council's vanity project, but they seem blissfully unaware just how much it would cost to get open, let alone into profit despite. And if/when it does get shut down, they can blame the government despite having wasted millions trying to justify it's opening.

The government have granted the funding - so it's not coming from SYCA directly.

Does anybody like going via Manchester airport other than people who live there?! I've not heard a good word for it from anybody I've spoken to and the consensus is they only use it because they have to.

I doubt anyone does - I think the refurbed T2 experience is a little better than the rest, but the general experience is rubbish.
The buildings stink of kerosene, a lot of the travelators don't work, security is deeply unfriendly etc etc...

Whilst that is undoubtedly the case, it is an indisputable fact that Manchester does have and always will have the most choice and offers the most flexibility on destinations, frequency of flights and ultimately cost over and above other airports in the north and midlands. DSA is very close to EMA, let’s not forget that airlines want large catchment areas and EMA pretty much serves from Leicester to the south up to Sheffield in the North as its core catchment area within an hour. DSA serves primarily fields on most sides and is at the periphery of the urban area it purports to serve. So people just chase the cheaper fares and flexibility offered by other airports. In short it offers nothing to airlines in terms of a large diverse customer base and would cause overlap of that market if they were to try to serve both/all three. That’s why it failed to take off under Peel and it’s fundamentally why it will struggle no matter who owns it whilst there is still the other airports vying for the same passengers.

Manchester will offer a lot of flexibility for budget-conscious travellers, but for travellers flying long haul or for a more premium experience on BA or the other flag carriers, flying from Heathrow/Gatwick/a smaller regional airport via connections offers a much more desirable experience.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's all about attempted porkbarreling in certain areas to shore up at least some of the Tory vote.

It’s pork-barrelling. But not for South Yorkshire. I firmly believe this is designed to try and cover up what is going on at Teesside.

It helps that Leeds Bradford was built on a very poorly chosen site (the former RAF Church Fenton would have been a much better choice)

It’s been done to death, but Church Fenton as an airport would be of absolutely no use to anyone. Yeadon is a popular airport because it is close to the city centres of Leeds and Bradford, and is also close to Harrogate. Church Fenton is close to absolutely nowhere.

Does anybody like going via Manchester airport other than people who live there?! I've not heard a good word for it from anybody I've spoken to and the consensus is they only use it because they have to.

Does anybody like any airport?

The big problems at Manchester- security queues etc- are because it is a very busy and very popular airport.

I prefer Liverpool but that’s because it is quieter- it’s been awful too when I’ve had to travel through it at peak time in the summer. If it became as busy as Manchester it would be as unpleasant as Manchester.

 

[DanNCL]

There’s really no need for Doncaster-Sheffield airport to reopen. Both are barely an hour by road from Leeds/Bradford. Both Manchester and Newcastle airports are within 2 hours of Doncaster by rail too.

Shame about the Vulcan being stuck there but ultimately that isn’t a reason to reopen the airport. Specialist companies can disassemble aircraft for road transport and reassemble them again in a new home - already done successfully with two Concordes, no reason other than finances why it couldn’t also be done with a Vulcan.

It feels like a waste of money being thrown at Doncaster-Sheffield, which could be better spent on more essential projects like housing, bus services, rail infrastructure projects, health care, etc.

There are multiple different airports close to Doncaster-Sheffield; Leeds-Bradford, Manchester, East Midlands, Liverpool and Newcastle. Additionally, both Doncaster and Sheffield have regular trains to London. Doncaster-Sheffield would be competing in an extremely competitive and congested space, both in passengers and cargo.

It feels ironic for Mark Harper to throw money at a project that is a dead duck but not to invest in a much needed project.

Humberside airport is still open too.

 

[pug1]

Manchester will offer a lot of flexibility for budget-conscious travellers, but for travellers flying long haul or for a more premium experience on BA or the other flag carriers, flying from Heathrow/Gatwick/a smaller regional airport via connections offers a much more desirable experience

Maybe so, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that Manchester has the largest choice of destinations in short and long-haul of any U.K. airport outside of London. Any airport trying to compete with that is going to be way behind. Liverpool, Leeds Bradford and East Midlands all serve a core market of at least 2 million people with adequate accessibility to many more. Doncaster has a population of just over 300,000. To the east it’s largely rural and even further it’s the sea. To the West and south it does have a large urban area (1.2 million) but it offers nothing to those people who are just more likely to fly from the incumbents as they aren’t much further to travel to. So what is the incentive for an airline to start flying from there rather than one of the others mentioned?

Let me put it another way, aircraft are expensive assets. They need to be utilised and they need to have a large payload. Would you put your aircraft in Doncaster with its catchment area constraints or would you put it in Leeds or East Midlands where there are a lot more people? It doesn’t help that when easyjet were flying from DSA their load factors were not much above 50% (company average at the time 85%), or when Aer Lingus (franchise Aer Arrann and later Stobart Air) tried twice to link the airport up with Dublin for onward connections their aircraft struggled to go out with loads above single figures! So how do you fix that problem? How do you encourage airlines to expose themselves to that level of risk?

DSA was always a solution looking for a problem. The public enquiry of 2003 stated as much even then, when there were more airlines to choose from! What is the difference now?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Humberside airport is still open too.

So is Teeside, but they both only have a handful of flights.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Does anybody like going via Manchester airport other than people who live there?! I've not heard a good word for it from anybody I've spoken to and the consensus is they only use it because they have to.

Manchester Airport has a systemic issue of underfunding by their owners (Manchester Airport Group who also own EMA and Stansted), meaning airlines don't fly from MAN as they cite insufficient infrastructure, airlines then move to the likes of London, passengers go with the airlines, MAG (Manchester Airport Group) cites no reason to upgrade the airport and you've got yourself a spiral. Besides, getting to MAN from anywhere that isn't Manchester is a nightmare thanks to TPE.

I prefer Liverpool but that’s because it is quieter- it’s been awful too when I’ve had to travel through it at peak time in the summer. If it became as busy as Manchester it would be as unpleasant as Manchester.

Liverpool and Leeds-Bradford are both great alternatives to MAN for short haul, but definitely not for long haul.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You mean somewhere like Leeds East Airport?

RAF Church Fenton and Leeds East are one and the same, so yes.

It’s pork-barrelling. But not for South Yorkshire. I firmly believe this is designed to try and cover up what is going on at Teesside.



It’s been done to death, but Church Fenton as an airport would be of absolutely no use to anyone. Yeadon is a popular airport because it is close to the city centres of Leeds and Bradford, and is also close to Harrogate. Church Fenton is close to absolutely nowhere.

1) You could be right on that one, but there are several marginals close to Doncaster that the Tories are anxious about holding on to - e.g. Don Valley.

2) Church Fenton is directly between Leeds and York, close to the ECML and only around 30 mins from Wakefield/Pontefract/Castleford/Knottingley, so has quite a sizeable population close by.

 

[pug1]

2) Church Fenton is directly between Leeds and York, close to the ECML and only around 30 mins from Wakefield/Pontefract/Castleford/Knottingley, so has quite a sizeable population close by

Leeds East/Church Fenton is a pig to get to by road, has a lot of quaint villages surrounding it that wouldn’t be too keen on redevelopment, and the runway isn’t particularly long, in fact it’s likely the proximity of the ECML on the approach to RWY24 could cause issues for any CAT3 ILS system that would need to be installed to mitigate the frequent low lying fog in the vale of York. It’s also quite far from the wider West Yorkshire population.

Ferrybridge should have been the location for a Yorkshire airport when they built the M62. Those days are long gone and there will be no new airport in Yorkshire unless DSA reopens, when problems will persist.

 

[trebor79]

Shame about the Vulcan being stuck there but ultimately that isn’t a reason to reopen the airport. Specialist companies can disassemble aircraft for road transport and reassemble them again in a new home - already done successfully with two Concordes, no reason other than finances why it couldn’t also be done with a Vulcan.

The Vulcan will only ever leave by road in any case, regardless of whether the airport reopens or not.

 

[DanNCL]

The Vulcan will only ever leave by road in any case, regardless of whether the airport reopens or not.

I was more thinking on the lines that it wouldn’t need to leave at all if the airport reopened.
I seem to recall they sought CAA approval for a one-off flight out of there whilst the airport was still open and it was rejected.

 

[Bantamzen]

The government have granted the funding - so it's not coming from SYCA directly.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was still the council that allocated the funds to the consultation? I'll see if I can dig it up at some point.

I doubt anyone does - I think the refurbed T2 experience is a little better than the rest, but the general experience is rubbish.
The buildings stink of kerosene, a lot of the travelators don't work, security is deeply unfriendly etc etc...

People don't necessarily choose airports because they are nice, although that was a primary argument used by some to keep DSA open. People go to them because they offer flights at the right time / cost / destination, which Manchester is far more capable of than others. If LBA were ever to close, which it won't given that the terminal expansion is underway, much of the capacity would gravitate there meaning there simply wouldn't be enough left to justify DSA re-opening. And even if it did, for the vast majority of passengers that use LBA, Manchester would still be closer and potentially offer more competitive fares so they would gravitate there too.

In fact even though I live just around 15 minutes drive from LBA, when looking for flights / holidays I still compare both airports as sometimes it can be vastly cheaper to got from Manchester via train than from LBA. Where the latter is more useful for me is when flights are due back at unsociable hours because I can book a local taxi and be falling under my duvet within a hour of hitting the runway.

Manchester will offer a lot of flexibility for budget-conscious travellers, but for travellers flying long haul or for a more premium experience on BA or the other flag carriers, flying from Heathrow/Gatwick/a smaller regional airport via connections offers a much more desirable experience.

Manchester's ongoing expansion may well allow it to offer more premium services in the future, albeit only on a smaller scale compared to the London airports. However it would be highly unlikely that an re-opened DSA would offer London connecting flights as it has a pretty good London facing rail service right in the city centre. Its the same reason that LBA has no connecting flights, and Manchester only a small handful.

RAF Church Fenton and Leeds East are one and the same, so yes.


1) You could be right on that one, but there are several marginals close to Doncaster that the Tories are anxious about holding on to - e.g. Don Valley.

2) Church Fenton is directly between Leeds and York, close to the ECML and only around 30 mins from Wakefield/Pontefract/Castleford/Knottingley, so has quite a sizeable population close by.

DSA was close to the ECML....

The problem is that a spur to serve either DSA or Leeds East would be massively expensive for little return, and in the case of Leeds East would face severe opposition. But Leeds East is a moot point, that's never going to replace either LBA or DSA in a hundred years, there are not big enough Crayolas to start to draw that one up!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Manchester's ongoing expansion may well allow it to offer more premium services in the future, albeit only on a smaller scale compared to the London airports. However it would be highly unlikely that an re-opened DSA would offer London connecting flights as it has a pretty good London facing rail service right in the city centre. Its the same reason that LBA has no connecting flights, and Manchester only a small handful.

I'm not going to argue further on what DSA could have been, there seems no point.
As for Manchester's expansion, I doubt they'll offer anything resembling a premium services, because there's slightly more to be made ripping off passengers off low-cost airlines.
If they were clever, they could offer a better experience as an extra add on service (not just Fast Track, access to a nicer lounge included, priority check in for a few partner airlines) - perhaps in T1, since a lot of long-haul airlines operate from there, and it hasn't been recently refurbished, so the offer is more attractive.

Edit: Just realised T1 is closing, which means your only option is T3...
Well, the same plan could work if priced correctly.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not going to argue further on what DSA could have been, there seems no point.
As for Manchester's expansion, I doubt they'll offer anything resembling a premium services, because there's slightly more to be made ripping off passengers off low-cost airlines.
If they were clever, they could offer a better experience as an extra add on service (not just Fast Track, access to a nicer lounge included, priority check in for a few partner airlines) - perhaps in T1, since a lot of long-haul airlines operate from there, and it hasn't been recently refurbished, so the offer is more attractive.

Edit: Just realised T1 is closing, which means your only option is T3...
Well, the same plan could work if priced correctly.

I would be surprised if they don't have one eye on more premium, long haul markets once more capacity is released. But that's probably for another thread.

 

[DanNCL]

So is Teeside, but they both only have a handful of flights.

Very true. I think both of them only have KLM operating any regular flights.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Very true. I think both of them only have KLM operating any regular flights.

KLM flies to Teeside, but Wizz Air had a small presence at DSA.

 

[Tetchytyke]

2) Church Fenton is directly between Leeds and York, close to the ECML and only around 30 mins from Wakefield/Pontefract/Castleford/Knottingley, so has quite a sizeable population close by.

It’s in a field away far from any major road, and is far away from the main population centre of West Yorkshire.

Google Maps tells me it is 13 miles from Leeds East Airport to the A1/M1. “Badly sited and inaccessible” LBA is under 15 miles from the A1/M1.

LBA is also significantly closer to the main population centres of West Yorkshire, which lie to the west of Leeds.

Manchester Airport has a systemic issue of underfunding by their owners

The investment in the new T2 is massive- and doesn’t indicate any form of under-investment or under-funding.

It’s worth noting that the new T2 is a very pleasant terminal indeed, and the old part of T2 is well on the way to being refurbished to the same standard.

What you won’t see is much investment in T1 as this is intended to be closed by the end of 2025. This also explains why the life-expired Skylink travelators (they’re not broken) have not been replaced.

As for Manchester's expansion, I doubt they'll offer anything resembling a premium services, because there's slightly more to be made ripping off passengers off low-cost airlines.

Manchester has a wide range of premium services, including business class lounges for a number of long-haul airlines. The new T2 really is a very pleasant terminal, light and day ahead of T1 (which is scheduled to close next year) and T3 (which will probably also close at the same time).

Realistically, east of the Pennines you’ll have Newcastle, LBA, and EMA as long-term viable airports and everyone else is wasting their time. For long-haul you’ll have Manchester and probably one of Edinburgh or Glasgow.

 

[pug1]

KLM flies to Teeside, but Wizz Air had a small presence at DSA.

They did, which has since moved to Leeds (despite by all accounts Teesside offering them a very good deal). Humberside has a lot of non-passenger related business in support of offshore work and SAR, plus a based airline with its HQ on site. That is though a blessing and a curse as the owner probably doesn’t even know it exists, with such small turnover it’s probably nothing more than a rounding error in the greater scheme of things, so Humberside suffers a severe lack of investment. Not helped of course by having DSA down the road until fairly recently. There again, hosting aircraft of 737 types or larger requires a higher category fire crew on standby which is expensive, also operating late into the night costs a fortune. So these airports need to attain a certain passenger level before they start to cover the increased costs. This is why Peel found DSA unviable, but Humberside and Teesside could be profitable on a far smaller throughput than DSA had at its peak due to footprint.

Problem these days is pretty much all of the tour operators that chartered aircraft have moved on to buying seats on the low cost or leisure airlines and they have centred their operations at bigger airports, so it’s TUI/Ryanair or bust unfortunately.

 

[mpthomson]

RAF Church Fenton and Leeds East are one and the same, so yes.


1) You could be right on that one, but there are several marginals close to Doncaster that the Tories are anxious about holding on to - e.g. Don Valley.

2) Church Fenton is directly between Leeds and York, close to the ECML and only around 30 mins from Wakefield/Pontefract/Castleford/Knottingley, so has quite a sizeable population close by.

Church Fenton has absolutely terrible road access plus the railway station is at the other side of the village from it and not on the ECML, which requires a change at either York or Leeds. No-one is ever going to agree to a rail spur for a speculative airport. LBA can't even get one even with it's expansion.
Every single road going to Leeds East is a small and narrow B road that goes basically to Church Fenton and nowhere else.

 

[YorkRailFan]

The investment in the new T2 is massive- and doesn’t indicate any form of under-investment or under-funding.

It’s worth noting that the new T2 is a very pleasant terminal indeed, and the old part of T2 is well on the way to being refurbished to the same standard.

What you won’t see is much investment in T1 as this is intended to be closed by the end of 2025. This also explains why the life-expired Skylink travelators (they’re not broken) have not been replaced.

Haven't used T2, only T1 which I thought was decent, most long haul airlines at MAN use T1 though like Emirates.

They did, which has since moved to Leeds (despite by all accounts Teesside offering them a very good deal). Humberside has a lot of non-passenger related business in support of offshore work and SAR, plus a based airline with its HQ on site. That is though a blessing and a curse as the owner probably doesn’t even know it exists, with such small turnover it’s probably nothing more than a rounding error in the greater scheme of things, so Humberside suffers a severe lack of investment. Not helped of course by having DSA down the road until fairly recently. There again, hosting aircraft of 737 types or larger requires a higher category fire crew on standby which is expensive, also operating late into the night costs a fortune. So these airports need to attain a certain passenger level before they start to cover the increased costs. This is why Peel found DSA unviable, but Humberside and Teesside could be profitable on a far smaller throughput than DSA had at its peak due to footprint.

Problem these days is pretty much all of the tour operators that chartered aircraft have moved on to buying seats on the low cost or leisure airlines and they have centred their operations at bigger airports, so it’s TUI/Ryanair or bust unfortunately.

Leeds-Bradford has a higher catchment area than Teeside with Leeds, Bradford, Doncaster, Sheffield, Halifax, Wakefield, Huddersfield, York, Skipton and Hull all being in the area. Newcastle is a better choice for airlines than Teeside.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I would be surprised if they don't have one eye on more premium, long haul markets once more capacity is released. But that's probably for another thread.

Perhaps, but the standard they've set for the local community doesn't inspire that.

Manchester has a wide range of premium services, including business class lounges for a number of long-haul airlines. The new T2 really is a very pleasant terminal, light and day ahead of T1 (which is scheduled to close next year) and T3 (which will probably also close at the same time).

Realistically, east of the Pennines you’ll have Newcastle, LBA, and EMA as long-term viable airports and everyone else is wasting their time. For long-haul you’ll have Manchester and probably one of Edinburgh or Glasgow

Lounges are OK in isolation, but the experience to get to them through security is still massively subpar regardless and puts people off.

How are they going to close T3? Surely it doesn't allow for future growth from the likes of Ryanair?

As for airport capacity in the medium term, you may well be right.
But I think Humberside and Teesside will subsist once regional aviation in the UK is the greener option (which I anticipate in 10-15 years), especially given I don't think the situation will markedly improve in the next 20 years for longer distance domestic non-London InterCity journeys sadly.

 

[pug1]

Perhaps, but the standard they've set for the local community doesn't inspire that.

Lounges are OK in isolation, but the experience to get to them through security is still massively subpar regardless and puts people off.

How are they going to close T3? Surely it doesn't allow for future growth from the likes of Ryanair?

As for airport capacity in the medium term, you may well be right.
But I think Humberside and Teesside will subsist once regional aviation in the UK is the greener option (which I anticipate in 10-15 years), especially given I don't think the situation will markedly improve in the next 20 years for longer distance domestic non-London InterCity journeys sadly.

Contrary, I think certainly Humberside has a long future owing to the other aspects of the business that make up the larger share of revenue that is moving more towards green and renewable energy. It also supports ship crew changeovers as it’s one of the busiest commercial waterways in the U.K. can’t speak for Teesside. I think it will have a more drastic impact on those airports that are all vying for the same passengers and if include DSA they n that list if it reopens.

I’ll let you into a secret, but the reason KLM couldn’t be tempted to move to DSA from Humberside was partly due to the reasons I outline above. Also from a green aspect the amount of fuel used would have been considerably more to fly to DSA over Humberside.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Contrary, I think certainly Humberside has a long future owing to the other aspects of the business that make up the larger share of revenue that is moving more towards green and renewable energy. It also supports ship crew changeovers as it’s one of the busiest commercial waterways in the U.K. can’t speak for Teesside. I think it will have a more drastic impact on those airports that are all vying for the same passengers and if include DSA they n that list if it reopens.

I’ll let you into a secret, but the reason KLM couldn’t be tempted to move to DSA from Humberside was partly due to the reasons I outline above. Also from a green aspect the amount of fuel used would have been considerably more to fly to DSA over Humberside.

Thanks, you obviously have some sort of insider information that I don't have. One thing I will say is that I'm surprised it was a noticeable impact flying an extra 30 miles to DSA over Humberside, but I suppose small jets are very efficient these days.