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Drax and Peel Ports criticise rail infrastructure in North

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8A Rail

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I believe the loaded trains are double headed out of the docks, but the second loco is detached at Tuebrook.
Top and tail I'm afraid. Empty stock needs loco to take to the end of the single line loading line, otherwise would have to run round outside the old Bulk Terminal, then reverse train to the end of the Biomass loading line. Leading loco out of the docks, when it arrives at Tuebrook Sdgs, detaches and then what was banking loco, becomes leading loco to Drax.
 
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8A Rail

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My recollection is that the biomass facility at Liverpool was originally there to supply fuel to Ironbridge, which then shut down. I am not aware of Fiddlers Ferry having plans to convert to biomass.

As an aside, transporting biomass fuel from Liverpool to an existing power station in Yorkshire is sensible compared to transporting refuse from Merseyside to a new purpose-built waste-to-energy plant on Teesside.

All good news for the rail freight sector, however, and a partial replacement for the loss of coal traffic.

Biomass for Ironbridge PS was supplied via the now mothballed Bulk Terminal, same terminal they used for coal. Peel Holdings spend money to build the new "Liverpool Biomass Terminal" which is on a separate line for the purpose of supplying Biomass to Drax (and any other locations) and opened late 2015. Ironbridge PS traffic ceased by then and therefore never was served by the new "Liverpool Biomass Terminal".
 
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8A Rail

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Weren't they using a class 59 to pull the trains up out of the docks to a Edge Hill?
The Class 59 (59003) was only used for 3 months when the Drax trains commenced at the request of Peel Holdings and even then a Class 66 was at the tail end of the train. After that it became clear T&T Class 66's were sufficient.
 

Elecman

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The Class 59 (59003) was only used for 3 months when the Drax trains commenced at the request of Peel Holdings and even then a Class 66 was at the tail end of the train. After that it became clear T&T Class 66's were sufficient.

Yes but as 8A Rail mentions above the tail Loco becomes the train engine at Edge Hill so probably wasn't doing much pushing. That way saves time only requiring the 59 to uncoulemand away the train went, no running out of the way if it was double headed.
 
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Elecman

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One wonders wether using. 60 instead of the 66 would work better as the hauling Loco out of the docks
 

Greybeard33

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Top and tail I'm afraid. Empty stock needs loco to take to the end of the single line loading line, otherwise would have to run round outside the old Bulk Terminal, then reverse train to the end of the Biomass loading line. Leading loco out of the docks, when it arrives at Tuebrook Sdgs, detaches and then what was banking loco, becomes leading loco to Drax.

Yes, my memory at fault. But I seem to remember reports of occasional double headed workings, which have used the Olive Mount chord instead of reversing at Tuebrook?
 

notlob.divad

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According to RTT, some do still appear to run straight out off the Bootle branch without reversing at Tuebrook sidings. They seem to be the early morning runs that go via Piccadilly rather than via Northwich.
 

8A Rail

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Yes, my memory at fault. But I seem to remember reports of occasional double headed workings, which have used the Olive Mount chord instead of reversing at Tuebrook?
Double heading is rare to be honest but it has happened. Certainly one operated a couple of months ago but they do tend be single Class 66 when going east. I think if it is double headed, it is a way of getting a loco back to Yorkshire (Doncaster) rather taking another train path and driver to do it.

According to RTT, some do still appear to run straight out off the Bootle branch without reversing at Tuebrook sidings. They seem to be the early morning runs that go via Piccadilly rather than via Northwich.
Yes that is correct for a number of reasons. Not looking at RTT, the train still takes the L&M route then rather go to Victoria, is routed via Piccadilly to pick up its original route.

One wonders wether using. 60 instead of the 66 would work better as the hauling Loco out of the docks
Probably (if it happens, fingers cross) but I suspect there still may be another loco at tail end of the train. I think ultimately it will down to GBRf (assuming they are having any) to decide what is the best use of Class 60 on those particular trains. It could the same as the initial Class 59 use, were the loco was in effect a "super shunter"! We will wait and see eh!
 
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Greybeard33

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Double heading is rare to be honest but it has happened. Certainly one operated a couple of months ago but they do tend be single Class 66 when going east. I think if it is double headed, it is a way of getting a loco back to Yorkshire (Doncaster) rather taking another train path and driver to do it.

According to RTT, some do still appear to run straight out off the Bootle branch without reversing at Tuebrook sidings. They seem to be the early morning runs that go via Piccadilly rather than via Northwich.
Yes that is correct for a number of reasons. Not looking at RTT, the train still takes the L&M route then rather go to Victoria, is routed via Piccadilly to pick up its original route.
Hmm. The Working Timetable route for those early morning runs is in fact via the Mid-Cheshire and Calder Valley, with the usual reversal at Tuebrook where one loco is detached. But this week they have a VAR routing via the Chat Moss, Piccadilly, Guide Bridge and Diggle, using the Olive Mount chord. There is no path shown on RTT for a banker to return to the docks. So I wonder if they are double headed all the way, to give extra oomph up to Diggle? I believe that is a steeper climb than the usual route over Summit?
 

mwmbwls

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Going back to the original question – the fundamental difficulty is that either biomass trains cross across the centre of Manchester or take a circular route that crosses radial routes. Train paths through the centre of Manchester are already constrained and will be further constrained after the opening of the Ordsall Chord – by both the increased number of passenger services that the TOC’s wish to operate through the Manchester Hub and the increased speeds that they wish to operate them. Trains taking the orbital route find themselves having to make short transits either along or across the major routes out of Manchester and although not taking up as much scarce network capacity still need to fit between radial passenger flows. The differential in acceleration and speed between loaded and unloaded trains means that this an asymmetric problem – with westbound empty trains being less disruptive than slower eastbound trains. This is all played out against significant peak hour passenger flows.
The solutions appear to be either tinkering with the existing traction or devising new routes that do not involve crossing the city centre or having to wait at each radial/orbital conflict point. Electrification of key freight routes in the Manchester area is not unknown but is unlikely to be repeated unless lay by loops are installed over Diggle.
Another alternative is not use Liverpool Drax as the key supply route. As others have pointed out Immingham has similar facilities to Liverpool following the run- down of its coal terminal and a relatively easy run not involving major cities or upland ranges. It was named as part of a three port group by Drax when setting up their infrastructure chain. The third port was Newcastle – but the latter’s biomass capacity is now in part being taken up by the operation of Tyne Dock to Lynemouth.
Whilst this would work for Drax – this would be bad news for Peel – who own neither Immingham or Newcastle. They do however own Hunterston – from whence bulk coal trains ran via the G&SWR and Midland Settle and Carlisle route. Whilst this might suit Peel – it would not suit Merseyside for whom the new port facilities in Liverpool is critical.
This would bring us to the final question how to get biomass from Liverpool to Drax without crossing Manchester. There might a solution in the traffic flow was diverted via Ormskirk and Blackburn using the existing grade separated junction over the WCML at Lostock Hall. It would involve engineering a link at the Liverpool end between the end of the Westminster Tunnel, running under Kirkdale Station and the vacant track bed running up the west side of Kirkdale cutting using the now vacant tunnel bore to Walton Junction. Granted this would involve creating a junction under Kirkdale Station and involve a gradient in the mile long stretch from Birkdale to Walton Junction – that may require banking. Facilities and Aintree to drop the banker and the whenever would arise in providing a new link from Liverpool and possibly Southport to Preston relieving pressure on the WCML and approach routes to Manchester and Liverpool. It could also provide a catalyst for the reopening of the north Mersey branch from Aintree to Bootle reducing the load at Walton Junction.
Each of the options above have a price and the more ambitious the option the greater the price. However, it seems reasonable to suppose that whenever NPR gets built, local passenger services will take over paths vacated by NPR routed inter city services and that the conflicts between radial and orbital transits will continue and indeed may get worse. The Drax bio mass power stations have a working life in excess of thirty years – which would suggest that this problem will not go away and that long term and unapologetically radical ideas should be considered.
For the benefit of members unfamiliar with the area I annex some images. Apologies to whose unable to access them.
Walton Junction
28303479245_f7979287c1_c.jpg


Kirkdale Cutting
6856454884_da341c54fc_c.jpg

28312706315_a939e2cf85_c.jpg

Westminster Tunnel in relation to Kirkdale
7002579705_b7df23350e_c.jpg

25836991025_b2078d27ea_c.jpg
 
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8A Rail

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Hmm. The Working Timetable route for those early morning runs is in fact via the Mid-Cheshire and Calder Valley, with the usual reversal at Tuebrook where one loco is detached. But this week they have a VAR routing via the Chat Moss, Piccadilly, Guide Bridge and Diggle, using the Olive Mount chord. There is no path shown on RTT for a banker to return to the docks. So I wonder if they are double headed all the way, to give extra oomph up to Diggle? I believe that is a steeper climb than the usual route over Summit?

The problem with the working timetable, it does not include the Variations or STP's which GBRf have a lot of from one week to another and that includes the route via Piccadilly. Likewise, L/E moves tend to operate ad hoc and they wont always appear on RTT either, although there are some booked into the system but run early or later. Again, the greater majority of trains are single headed regardless of route.
 

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Would the route via St Helens, Wigan, Then Farmington Jct Bamber bridge, Cooy spit be any better? You cant access Bamber Bridge from the Ormskirk line without rebuilding a curve
 

mwmbwls

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Would the route via St Helens, Wigan, Then Farmington Jct Bamber bridge, Copy Pit be any better? You cant access Bamber Bridge from the Ormskirk line without rebuilding a curve

If the WCML north of Wigan can provide the extra capacity that would be an option. The question then arises as to whether the Tuebrook Huyton section can handle extra traffic once the biomass traffic starts to ramp up as other power frames at Drax come on line? - assuming they are converted from coal? Three frame conversions are completed or underway but there has been little said about the remaining three. When the initial study was done the southern route via the CLC was seen to be the only feasible option albeit with its orbital crossing radial routes baggage. I am unaware as to whether the WCML north of Wigan was considered - but if it was it must have rejected at some point and if so I can only think that WCML capacity on the approach to Preston at Euxton was a constraint.

Not only was I suggesting reinstating the northern chord - I was also suggesting redoubling Ormskirk to Farrington - to prevent delays on the extant single track section bleeding over into the northern end of the Merseytravel.The alignment at Farrington Junction between the West Lancs and the Blackburn line so far remains unencumbered. Relaying the missing chord would need to undertaken as part of the overall rebuild of the line.

This is yet another variant of the "pig in the python" problem that arises when over rationalised systems are expected to ramp up capacity.
 
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MarkyT

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This would bring us to the final question how to get biomass from Liverpool to Drax without crossing Manchester. There might a solution in the traffic flow was diverted via Ormskirk and Blackburn using the existing grade separated junction over the WCML at Lostock Hall. It would involve engineering a link at the Liverpool end between the end of the Westminster Tunnel, running under Kirkdale Station and the vacant track bed running up the west side of Kirkdale cutting using the now vacant tunnel bore to Walton Junction. Granted this would involve creating a junction under Kirkdale Station and involve a gradient in the mile long stretch from Birkdale to Walton Junction – that may require banking. Facilities and Aintree to drop the banker and the whenever would arise in providing a new link from Liverpool and possibly Southport to Preston relieving pressure on the WCML and approach routes to Manchester and Liverpool. It could also provide a catalyst for the reopening of the north Mersey branch from Aintree to Bootle reducing the load at Walton Junction.

Expensive, and I can't see how you could build that new junction under Kirkdale station without a very long closure of the passenger line above as well as the freight below. Better to construct a higher level single track chord around the back of the EMU depot, under Stanley Road and converging on the Merseyrail Bootle alignment next to Bank Hall station. There, Merseyrail tracks could be shifted over to the abandoned platform on the west side to make space, with the independent freight chord continuing on between Merseyrail and the Edge Hill freight route rising from the tunnel until the levels allow a junction near Bedford Road. North of Kirkdale Merseyrail might be shifted over onto the abandoned eastern pair of tracks to allow the current western pair to become dedicated freight tracks from Walton, correctly positioned with respect to the Ormskirk branch for no conflict with the Kirkby line. You'd Probably need to double much of the Preston line north of Ormskirk. The direct line at Lostock Hall would need reinstating, with the footpath on part of it rerouted.

Unfortunate the northern access into the docks from the Aintree-Bootle line was lost and is now covered with housing for the last few hundred metres. That could have provided an excellent access from the waterside via Ormskirk for these trains.
 

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Shaw S Hunter

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Would the route via St Helens, Wigan, Then Farmington Jct Bamber bridge, Cooy spit be any better? You cant access Bamber Bridge from the Ormskirk line without rebuilding a curve

Plenty of gradients going that way, almost all the way east of Huyton, so traction challenges would certainly exist. It would be interesting to know if timings have at least been modelled.
 

73001

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Unfortunate the northern access into the docks from the Aintree-Bootle line was lost and is now covered with housing for the last few hundred metres. That could have provided an excellent access from the waterside via Ormskirk for these trains.

I know it's unlikely to happen but would it be possible to use the Aintree to Bootle line, go past towards Sandhills and then reverse and enter the dock lines from the Southport line access. There's a load of disused track bed around there to put in an extra long siding to reverse on without getting in the way of Merseyrail (most of it used to be 4 track, now nearly all 2 track).
 

notlob.divad

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Going back to the original question – the fundamental difficulty is that either biomass trains cross across the centre of Manchester or take a circular route that crosses radial routes. Train paths through the centre of Manchester are already constrained and will be further constrained after the opening of the Ordsall Chord – by both the increased number of passenger services that the TOC’s wish to operate through the Manchester Hub and the increased speeds that they wish to operate them. Trains taking the orbital route find themselves having to make short transits either along or across the major routes out of Manchester and although not taking up as much scarce network capacity still need to fit between radial passenger flows. The differential in acceleration and speed between loaded and unloaded trains means that this an asymmetric problem – with westbound empty trains being less disruptive than slower eastbound trains. This is all played out against significant peak hour passenger flows.
The solutions appear to be either tinkering with the existing traction or devising new routes that do not involve crossing the city centre or having to wait at each radial/orbital conflict point. Electrification of key freight routes in the Manchester area is not unknown but is unlikely to be repeated unless lay by loops are installed over Diggle.
Another alternative is not use Liverpool Drax as the key supply route. As others have pointed out Immingham has similar facilities to Liverpool following the run- down of its coal terminal and a relatively easy run not involving major cities or upland ranges. It was named as part of a three port group by Drax when setting up their infrastructure chain. The third port was Newcastle – but the latter’s biomass capacity is now in part being taken up by the operation of Tyne Dock to Lynemouth.
Whilst this would work for Drax – this would be bad news for Peel – who own neither Immingham or Newcastle. They do however own Hunterston – from whence bulk coal trains ran via the G&SWR and Midland Settle and Carlisle route. Whilst this might suit Peel – it would not suit Merseyside for whom the new port facilities in Liverpool is critical.
This would bring us to the final question how to get biomass from Liverpool to Drax without crossing Manchester. There might a solution in the traffic flow was diverted via Ormskirk and Blackburn using the existing grade separated junction over the WCML at Lostock Hall. It would involve engineering a link at the Liverpool end between the end of the Westminster Tunnel, running under Kirkdale Station and the vacant track bed running up the west side of Kirkdale cutting using the now vacant tunnel bore to Walton Junction. Granted this would involve creating a junction under Kirkdale Station and involve a gradient in the mile long stretch from Birkdale to Walton Junction – that may require banking. Facilities and Aintree to drop the banker and the whenever would arise in providing a new link from Liverpool and possibly Southport to Preston relieving pressure on the WCML and approach routes to Manchester and Liverpool. It could also provide a catalyst for the reopening of the north Mersey branch from Aintree to Bootle reducing the load at Walton Junction.
Each of the options above have a price and the more ambitious the option the greater the price. However, it seems reasonable to suppose that whenever NPR gets built, local passenger services will take over paths vacated by NPR routed inter city services and that the conflicts between radial and orbital transits will continue and indeed may get worse. The Drax bio mass power stations have a working life in excess of thirty years – which would suggest that this problem will not go away and that long term and unapologetically radical ideas should be considered.
For the benefit of members unfamiliar with the area I annex some images. Apologies to whose unable to access them.

Could you not achieve the same thing without the new chord just by using the North Mersey Branch, 3 or 4 track Aintree to Ormskirk doubling Ormskirk to Preston and re-instating a chord near Lostock Hall?

It would have to mean immediately reversing across the Merseyrail Northern Lines on the flat as soon as it emerged from the docks which at 4tph each direction might cause a slight scheduling difficulty, but surely nothing a tweak to the timings in one direction to ensure the N&S bound services pass in the vicinity couldn't solve.
 

MarkyT

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I know it's unlikely to happen but would it be possible to use the Aintree to Bootle line, go past towards Sandhills and then reverse and enter the dock lines from the Southport line access. There's a load of disused track bed around there to put in an extra long siding to reverse on without getting in the way of Merseyrail (most of it used to be 4 track, now nearly all 2 track).

I considered that too. While there may be space for the siding(s), the Aintree line descends on the west side of the Southport line while the dock branch dives under from the the east side. Any train transferring between the two would have to cross the Southport line on the flat. Not ideal.
 

mwmbwls

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I considered that too. While there may be space for the siding(s), the Aintree line descends on the west side of the Southport line while the dock branch dives under from the the east side. Any train transferring between the two would have to cross the Southport line on the flat. Not ideal.

7002520991_15ae94635e_c.jpg


As you correctly point out whilst there is room for a trailing crossover to facilitate engineering trains there would be difficulty restarting a full train north.

Spending the money I found under my "magischen Geldbaum" I would reopen the North Mersey line from Aintree to Bootle to (a) link Maghull to Bootle (b) divert half the trains from Ormskirk (and/or Preston) to minimise conflicts at Walton Junction via Bootle(c) to increase the frequency from Bootle Central into the city. I would rebuild Aintree Station, allowing the bankers up from the Docks to detach and return south on an empty working.
Again my apologies to those who cannot receive images.

25856015265_1ef7d200e0_b.jpg


Aintree station is just to the north of the over bridge in this image. Space exists to build a new junction and platforms.
6813824426_5bb4948de9_c.jpg
 

mwmbwls

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Expensive, and I can't see how you could build that new junction under Kirkdale station without a very long closure of the passenger line above as well as the freight below. Better to construct a higher level single track chord around the back of the EMU depot, under Stanley Road and converging on the Merseyrail Bootle alignment next to Bank Hall station. There, Merseyrail tracks could be shifted over to the abandoned platform on the west side to make space, with the independent freight chord continuing on between Merseyrail and the Edge Hill freight route rising from the tunnel until the levels allow a junction near Bedford Road. North of Kirkdale Merseyrail might be shifted over onto the abandoned eastern pair of tracks to allow the current western pair to become dedicated freight tracks from Walton, correctly positioned with respect to the Ormskirk branch for no conflict with the Kirkby line. You'd Probably need to double much of the Preston line north of Ormskirk. The direct line at Lostock Hall would need reinstating, with the footpath on part of it rerouted.

Unfortunate the northern access into the docks from the Aintree-Bootle line was lost and is now covered with housing for the last few hundred metres. That could have provided an excellent access from the waterside via Ormskirk for these trains.

I take your point about the engineering complexity of a junction under Kirkdale station and agree that a westerly slew of the Merseytravel tracks north of Kirkdale would be a good idea to minimise conflicts at Walton Junction. I would question whether it is possible to fit a chord round the north side of existing Kirkdale depot. However, I understand that the latter is to be rebuilt as part of the new generation Merseytravel stock programme so
nothing is impossible.

6856448110_884c6f57fd_c.jpg
 

Greybeard33

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Another alternative is not use Liverpool Drax as the key supply route. As others have pointed out Immingham has similar facilities to Liverpool following the run- down of its coal terminal and a relatively easy run not involving major cities or upland ranges. It was named as part of a three port group by Drax when setting up their infrastructure chain. The third port was Newcastle – but the latter’s biomass capacity is now in part being taken up by the operation of Tyne Dock to Lynemouth.
A sample check on RTT for one day this week showed nine trains to Drax from Immingham Biomass Terminal versus only four from Liverpool. So Liverpool is far from becoming the key supply route.

When the Liverpool flow was inaugurated, Drax stated that it was essential to have alternative ports and rail links because the perishable nature of wood chips requires "just in time" deliveries. Unlike coal, biomass must be kept under cover - it cannot be dumped in huge heaps in the open as an insurance against an interruption in the supply chain.

Deliveries via Immingham could be disrupted for days or weeks for various reasons, e.g. industrial action, commercial dispute, port entrance blocked, rail line damaged. The consequent loss of production would be commercially catastrophic for Drax unless they could divert shipments to Liverpool.

Also, if there is an interruption in shipments from America, the shorter crossing time to Liverpool will enable deliveries to resume more quickly.

IIRC, in such eventualities Drax wants to be able temporarily to run up to 12 trains per day from Liverpool.
 

MarkyT

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I take your point about the engineering complexity of a junction under Kirkdale station and agree that a westerly slew of the Merseytravel tracks north of Kirkdale would be a good idea to minimise conflicts at Walton Junction. I would question whether it is possible to fit a chord round the north side of existing Kirkdale depot. However, I understand that the latter is to be rebuilt as part of the new generation Merseytravel stock programme so nothing is impossible.

The chord would cut through the car park and follow the access road, passing behind the near range of low depot buildings to the right in your picture (crew accommodation?). With the existing road blocked, a new access ramp could be added next to the new bridge under Stanley Road.
 

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mwmbwls

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The chord would cut through the car park and follow the access road, passing behind the near range of low depot buildings to the right in your picture (crew accommodation?). With the existing road blocked, a new access ramp could be added next to the new bridge under Stanley Road.

Read in conjunction with the photographs of the south end of Westminster Tunnel on the Disused Stations site showing the height of the cuttings that would need to be breached - your plan is quite neat.
http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/features/atlantic_dock_junction/index.shtml
 
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mwmbwls

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A sample check on RTT for one day this week showed nine trains to Drax from Immingham Biomass Terminal versus only four from Liverpool. So Liverpool is far from becoming the key supply route.

When the Liverpool flow was inaugurated, Drax stated that it was essential to have alternative ports and rail links because the perishable nature of wood chips requires "just in time" deliveries. Unlike coal, biomass must be kept under cover - it cannot be dumped in huge heaps in the open as an insurance against an interruption in the supply chain.

Deliveries via Immingham could be disrupted for days or weeks for various reasons, e.g. industrial action, commercial dispute, port entrance blocked, rail line damaged. The consequent loss of production would be commercially catastrophic for Drax unless they could divert shipments to Liverpool.

Also, if there is an interruption in shipments from America, the shorter crossing time to Liverpool will enable deliveries to resume more quickly.

IIRC, in such eventualities Drax wants to be able temporarily to run up to 12 trains per day from Liverpool.

Are all the trains from Immingham biomass trains? - IIRC Drax still has three coal fired frames operating. Again IIRC the bulk terminal at Immingham for coal imports and biomass share the rail infrastructure at the port. Does RTT distinguish down to load type?

22334667350_ba994d9264_c.jpg
 

Greybeard33

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Are all the trains from Immingham biomass trains? - IIRC Drax still has three coal fired frames operating. Again IIRC the bulk terminal at Immingham for coal imports and biomass share the rail infrastructure at the port. Does RTT distinguish down to load type?

No, the paths from Immingham (including the unused ones) are all for DB Cargo trains with a trailing load of 2400 tonnes. DBC has both the biomass and the coal contracts from Immingham, so it is not possible to distinguish from RTT. However, Drax preferentially dispatches the biomass units, with the coal units nowadays used mainly for capacity reserve and to meet demand peaks - reportedly 67% of Drax's annual generation is now from biomass. So at this time of year I would expect most deliveries to be biomass not coal. DBC's contract was announced as being for "up to 80%" of Drax's biomass.

There are also paths provisioned from the Tyne Coal Terminal (GBRf) and the Humber International Terminal (DBC) but none of these were used on the day I checked.
 

Heartland

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Closure of fuel burning power stations has had a dramatic impact on freight movement. Movement of coal was once a very significant traffic, now reduced to a trickle from the odd opencast site and from abroad. There was a time when coal from British mines was exported. Coal traffic by both water and rail was once a pillar of the transport industry.
Not only was it taken to burn at the power stations, but there were many other uses, carbonisation of coal at the Gasworks was another major use, that declined in the 1960's as Natural Gas became available. Carbonisation does still provide an option for British Coal, as the methods could be adapted to suit the needs of environmentalists producing chemicals, coke and hydrogen. But such a step appears beyond the vision of our present society
 

jayah

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Top story on ITV Granada Reports today showed Drax and Peel Ports criticising the government for a lack of rail infrastructure in North. Trains like these were mentioned: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H21940/2017/08/21/advanced They were saying something along the lines of they feel they should be able to get between Liverpool Biomass Tml Gbf and Drax Aes (Gbrf) in 3.5 hours compared to 'up to 10.'

The report: https://twitter.com/GranadaReports/status/899675570803548160 Video doesn't include the studio bits before and after the report on the same story.

Are we not paying Drax almost £1bn a years in subsidy to burn wood?

Judging by RTT it takes nothing like 10hrs even with a 3hr wait at Healey Mills.

By the time HS3 is built Drax will have been knocked down. Just run the wood convoys at night or bring it via Immingham.
 

northwichcat

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Judging by RTT it takes nothing like 10hrs even with a 3hr wait at Healey Mills.

I put 'up to 10 hours' in inverted commas for a reason. They seemed to be exaggerating but it is possible that during overnight engineering works that some trains might have to take an even longer route.
 

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Haven't other port operators traditionally been far better at contributing to rail improvements for freight (e.g. Hutchison/Felixstowe, DP World / Soton) than Peel?

Nope. Hutchinson has a Section 106 Agreement concerning dualling parts of the Felixstowe branch but hasn't exactly been forthcoming in spending the money, instead calling, along with GBRF, for the passenger trains to be withdrawn so their paths can be used by freight trains.
 

jayah

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I put 'up to 10 hours' in inverted commas for a reason. They seemed to be exaggerating but it is possible that during overnight engineering works that some trains might have to take an even longer route.

The whole concept gets more bizarre the further you dig.
Up to 10 trains a day.

Wood is now a perishable cargo or is that only if it gets wet?

They should ship from Immingham, fly it into Humberside, convert it to gas or pay for their own railway before burning more taxpayers money on this biomass madness.
 
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