Driving well below the speed limit

[Dr Hoo]

I’m really grumpy today so forgive this in advance if it touches a nerve.

Why do people drive well below the permitted speed limit, even in good conditions, with clear visibility, and no hazards? I’m talking sub 40mph on a 60mph road, or 20mph on a 30mph road.

Does anyone on here do this? If so why? Genuinely interested.

Going back to the original post, from a Peak District National Park perspective (with no motorways or significant dual carriageways) the point is that good conditions, clear visibility and absence of potential hazards tend to be rather scarce. The problem is that many visitors in high powered saloons fail to appreciate the differences from the main road network.

The locals quickly learn the spots for stray livestock, deer jumping out, equestrians, tractors turning sharply with overhanging agricultural equipment having a very large ‘swing’, hidden dips, blind summits and so on. Not to mention copious amounts of mud, loose gravel, manure, surface water and massive potholes underneath.

The visitors are the ones often found upside down or with the side of their vehicle ripped open by an unyielding dry stone wall. Often at apparently legal speeds well below 60mph, having just overtaken a local who has been pootling sensibly along.

 

[BayPaul]

To be honest, I find sitting in the right-hand-most lane on the motorway is easiest, and from experience I tend to feel safer here as generally you can focus more on what people on the left are doing, without having to worry about the right. I am very attentive to people approaching behind though.

Round here if you want to drive at or above 70 mph then realistically for most of the day you’re going to be in the right-most lane anyway.

I'm sorry but that is terrible and very inconsiderate driving. You are delaying and confusing other drivers, causing a little mild road rage, and reducing the capacity of the road.

Imagine a situation on a slightly, but not very busy road. A car in the middle lane wants to overtake a vehicle in front of him. If you were approaching in the middle lane, then he could happily pull out into the right hand lane and safely complete his manoeuvre. By being in the right hand lane, he has to wait until you go past. By this time, he may end up stuck in the middle lane for a significant time as his speed has had to drop to that of the vehicle in front.

By moving between lanes as needed, you are using the road as it was designed, and help the flow of traffic.

Sticking in one lane because it is easier also means you are not properly paying attention to the road, and risking falling asleep at the wheel.

I would like to see outside lane hog cameras invented to catch behaviour like this.

 

[jfollows]

I had someone doing precisely this last week, and it was both irritating and confusing. Should I overtake on the left? No, because the driver moved over, and then went back to lane 3 after I’d passed. The main problem is the confusion, what’s the driver going to do? Also highly irritating but that’s my problem. Thoughtless and dangerous in my view.

 

[bramling]

I'm sorry but that is terrible and very inconsiderate driving. You are delaying and confusing other drivers, causing a little mild road rage, and reducing the capacity of the road.

Imagine a situation on a slightly, but not very busy road. A car in the middle lane wants to overtake a vehicle in front of him. If you were approaching in the middle lane, then he could happily pull out into the right hand lane and safely complete his manoeuvre. By being in the right hand lane, he has to wait until you go past. By this time, he may end up stuck in the middle lane for a significant time as his speed has had to drop to that of the vehicle in front.

By moving between lanes as needed, you are using the road as it was designed, and help the flow of traffic.

Sticking in one lane because it is easier also means you are not properly paying attention to the road, and risking falling asleep at the wheel.

I would like to see outside lane hog cameras invented to catch behaviour like this.

Think you missed the important part of what I wrote - “I am very attentive to people approaching behind”.

 

[jfollows]

Think you missed the important part of what I wrote - “I am very attentive to people approaching behind”.

No, this doesn’t help because people approaching behind don’t know this, they are baffled and confused about what to do as a result.

 

[bramling]

No, this doesn’t help because people approaching behind don’t know this, they are baffled and confused about what to do as a result.

Who is they? If there’s no one approaching from behind, then there’s no one to be baffled and confused.

 

[Ken H]

I use the cruise control in my car a lot. But because the speedo over reads i bung it on 2-3 mph over the limit. Need to be careful in 20 and 30's tho

There is also highway Code rule 169. People need to obey this more often.

Rule 169​

Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

 

[AM9]

I use the cruise control in my car a lot. But because the speedo over reads i bung it on 2-3 mph over the limit. Need to be careful in 20 and 30's tho

There is also highway Code rule 169. People need to obey this more often.

Rule 169​

Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

I also use cruise control, even in 20 & 30mph areas. The problem is that there are those who queue behind vehicles being driven at the speed limit, aggressively pressuring them to go faster where there is no reasonable way of complying with Rule 169. That's where a cruise control relieves the driver of unnecessary stress.

 

[Brent Goose]

Lane discipline on the M25 where the roadworks used to but the 50mph limit remains was absolutely appalling last Sunday

Most were apparently marooned in whatever lane they were in when they encountered the limit and all doing there own interpretation of what that should translate as a speed.

Meanwhile a few had noticed the limit is no longer enforced by average speed cameras and accelerated between the gantry mounted ones.

 

[AM9]

Lane discipline on the M25 where the roadworks used to but the 50mph limit remains was absolutely appalling last Sunday

Most were apparently marooned in whatever lane they were in when they encountered the limit and all doing there own interpretation of what that should translate as a speed.

Meanwhile a few had noticed the limit is no longer enforced by average speed cameras and accelerated between the gantry mounted ones.

The speed limit is what's shown of the signs, it doesn't change because the camera setup is different (or even present).

 

[Meerkat]

The speed limit is what's shown of the signs, it doesn't change because the camera setup is different (or even present).

In practice it does - the real speed limit is the cameras, and if they aren’t average speed then the speed limit between them is the risk of an unmarked police car (or missing a camera)

 

[Brent Goose]

Indeed, drivers behaviour is noticeably different in each case

 

[jfollows]

I also use cruise control, even in 20 & 30mph areas. The problem is that there are those who queue behind vehicles being driven at the speed limit, aggressively pressuring them to go faster where there is no reasonable way of complying with Rule 169. That's where a cruise control relieves the driver of unnecessary stress.

Yes, I don’t use cruise control, but I can see your point. What I noted was that when my Jaguar was in the garage because I dented it, I had a replacement Ford Fiesta which was perfectly adequate but I got far more aggressive tailgating at the speed limit than I did in the Jaguar, so it was nice when it was repaired and I got it back again. Drivers seem to make assumptions based on the type of car you drive, which is silly. I’m probably guilty of this myself, mind you!

 

[bramling]

I also use cruise control, even in 20 & 30mph areas. The problem is that there are those who queue behind vehicles being driven at the speed limit, aggressively pressuring them to go faster where there is no reasonable way of complying with Rule 169. That's where a cruise control relieves the driver of unnecessary stress.

If you are driving at the speed limit then you’re not creating a queue, though it is worth bearing in mind that many car speedometers do tend to over-read slightly. So your 30 mph could well be 28 mph.

 

[Mat17]

I wonder how many are drivers who perhaps passed their test in another country, who simply don't know what that funny white sign with the black diagonal line means? Easily understandable, the other signs at least state their speed numerically.

I notice there's few people who actually drop down to 30mph when entering such a zone. Most stick at 40mph or whatever.

In clear, good weather, I do whatever speed the signs instruct me to do.

 

[Brent Goose]

If you are driving at the speed limit then you’re not creating a queue, though it is worth bearing in mind that many car speedometers do tend to over-read slightly. So your 30 mph could well be 28 mph.

if you are impeding the progress of people wishing to go faster then you are creating a queue regardless of speed limit.

Im not paid to uphold the speed limits so don’t consider it my role to do so

 

[sprunt]

if you are impeding the progress of people wishing to go faster then you are creating a queue regardless of speed limit.

Im not paid to uphold the speed limits so don’t consider it my role to do so

If one were stopped for speeding, do you think that "Oh, I was trying not to hold the other traffic up officer, Highway Code rule 169 you know." would go down well either at the roadside or in court?

 

[Brent Goose]

My reading of 169 is that it encourages slow moving vehicles to pull over to allow others to overtake so I doubt it would assist.

Occasionally on dual carriageways I’ve been tailgated despite following other vehicle (s) and I’ve temporarily pulled in to allow them to take their reckless driving elsewhere.

 

[bramling]

if you are impeding the progress of people wishing to go faster then you are creating a queue regardless of speed limit.

Im not paid to uphold the speed limits so don’t consider it my role to do so

If you’re driving at the speed limit on a single-carriageway road then it isn’t your responsibility to pull aside, though if you do have someone aggressively tailgating then it may be sensible to do so.

In many parts of the country if you pulled aside every time you have a string of cars behind then you’d never get anywhere.

At times I wonder if people on this forum feel they’re paid to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[gswindale]

if you are impeding the progress of people wishing to go faster then you are creating a queue regardless of speed limit.

Im not paid to uphold the speed limits so don’t consider it my role to do so

I failed my first driving test because I pulled out of a side road onto a more major road and then kept up with the other traffic on the road. Why did I fail? Because all the other traffic was doing 40 and it was actually a 30 limit.

If you’re driving at the speed limit on a single-carriageway road then it isn’t your responsibility to pull aside, though if you do have someone aggressively tailgating then it may be sensible to do so.

In many parts of the country if you pulled aside every time you have a string of cars behind then you’d never get anywhere.

At times I wonder if people on this forum feel they’re paid to be deliberately obtuse.

Indeed, this I have actually done a few times in the Forest of Dean as it seems some of the locals know the roads & boar crossings so well that the speed limit is irrelevant.

 

[AM9]

If you are driving at the speed limit then you’re not creating a queue, though it is worth bearing in mind that many car speedometers do tend to over-read slightly. So your 30mph could well be 28 mph.

You are correct, even when are travelling at 28mph in a 30mph limit. The only measure of speed that the driver has is what the speed indicator in the car says, and indication 30mph whilst actually doing 28mph is not grounds for harassment from other drivers, after all, however important the following driver might consider themselves, saving 8 seconds per mile does not justify aggressive road behaviour. Of course drivers can make an assumption about their car's speedometer's accuracy, but if it results in actually speeding then they have no defence in law.

 

[bramling]

You are correct, even when are travelling at 28mph in a 30mph limit. The only measure of speed that the driver has is what the speed indicator in the car says, and indication 30mph whilst actually doing 28mph is not grounds for harassment from other drivers, after all, however important the following driver might consider themselves, saving 8 seconds per mile does not justify aggressive road behaviour. Of course drivers can make an assumption about their car's speedometer's accuracy, but if it results in actually speeding then they have no defence in law.

The more thoughtful drivers should be able to get an idea of their true speed. Though GPS isn’t as reliable as some people might think it is, as it works off calculating between fixed points, so just joins the dots, which means it doesn’t follow curves.

I’m also not convinced when lorry drivers crow about how accurate their speedometers are thanks to being calibrated. It’s funny how many lorry drivers seem to go through roadworks at 56 mph, and such a strange coincidence that many car speedometers overread by 6mph!

What really *is* annoying is people who can’t stick to a constant speed though. If, for whatever reason, your version of 30 mph is 28 mph then fine, but please don’t make it a constant fluctuation between 25 mph and 35 mph. There’s absolutely no reason for that.

 

[bspahh]

The more thoughtful drivers should be able to get an idea of their true speed. Though GPS isn’t as reliable as some people might think it is, as it works off calculating between fixed points, so just joins the dots, which means it doesn’t follow curves.

Car speedometers are consistent but inaccurate. They are not supposed to underread, but can overread. GPS speed measurement is accurate but inconsistent. My speedometer nearly always reads 74mph when the GPS says its 70mph, but on a steep hill, or on odd occaisions, it doesn't. I use the speed reading on Waze to pick the speed to set the cruise control, and for warnings if the speed limit changes. I don't trust it for day to day use.

 

[BayPaul]

Think you missed the important part of what I wrote - “I am very attentive to people approaching behind”.

What about people ahead? Those who would pull out, but can't because you are in the wrong lane?

 

[Mat17]

I don't have any high tech in my car. My Speedo is the only indication of the speed my car is doing. At a few of the roadside speed indicators I know of, where they tell you how fast you are going, most of the time when my Speedo reads 30mph on the dot, the roadside sign also flashes up 30mph to match. If I do 28, the signs state 28 also. So I guess if they are also accurate, then my Speedo is set with no over-read.

 

[bspahh]

I don't have any high tech in my car. My Speedo is the only indication of the speed my car is doing. At a few of the roadside speed indicators I know of, where they tell you how fast you are going, most of the time when my Speedo reads 30mph on the dot, the roadside sign also flashes up 30mph to match. If I do 28, the signs state 28 also. So I guess if they are also accurate, then my Speedo is set with no over-read.

Usually the radar signs are pretty accurate when your car is the only one passing. If you are in traffic, it might give the speed for the car in front or behind.

To callibrate your speedo you can time how long it takes to go between the 1km distance posts on a motorway. At 70mph it should take you 32.0 seconds. At the 56mph/90kmh speed limit for HGVs, it will take 40.0 seconds.

You can also get the 56mph speed if you find an HGV which starts to overtake another one going up a hill and then stays at exactly the same speed going down a hill. The slower HGV will have dropped speed to save fuel going up the hill, but will then be at the speed limit on the way down.

You could also give a lift to someone with a SatNav on their phone, and ask them to measure the speed.

 

[Brent Goose]

I’m also not convinced when lorry drivers crow about how accurate their speedometers are thanks to being calibrated. It’s funny how many lorry drivers seem to go through roadworks at 56 mph, and such a strange coincidence that many car speedometers overread by 6mph!

Isn’t that more to do with that speed being just under the threshold for enforcement?

 

[jfollows]

If you’re driving at the speed limit on a single-carriageway road then it isn’t your responsibility to pull aside, though if you do have someone aggressively tailgating then it may be sensible to do so.

In many parts of the country if you pulled aside every time you have a string of cars behind then you’d never get anywhere.

At times I wonder if people on this forum feel they’re paid to be deliberately obtuse.

I’m totally in agreement with you here.

I tend to become even more diligent in my observation of the speed limit when I have the aggressive tailgater behind me. That’s to say I ensure I drive at an indicated speed of the limit, or less.

They usually stop tailgating when we reach a national speed limit section, of course, until they come huffing up again at the next 30mph section. I think we’ve had this discussion already!

 

[bramling]

Isn’t that more to do with that speed being just under the threshold for enforcement?

Yes exactly. The somewhat sanctimonious view that truck drivers disseminate around that “we are appearing to go faster because our speedometers are better than yours” is something of a misnomer. The reality is exactly that they’re driving on the limit of what they can get away with. Hence I’d prefer if roadworks were set to 60mph to avoid this.

I’m totally in agreement with you here.

I tend to become even more diligent in my observation of the speed limit when I have the aggressive tailgater behind me. That’s to say I ensure I drive at an indicated speed of the limit, or less.

They usually stop tailgating when we reach a national speed limit section, of course, until they come huffing up again at the next 30mph section. I think we’ve had this discussion already!

There’s times when it’s actually appropriate to slow down if being tailgated. What’s going to happen if I have to brake hard to avoid an obstruction? So now we need extra braking distance to compensate for the dumb twit behind. What’s particularly annoying are the ones who don’t even want to pass, just sit close behind for whatever stupid reason.

It’s not worth getting overly annoyed about something one can’t control though. I just sit back and think how much of a failed species the human race has become…

 

[Brent Goose]

There’s times when it’s actually appropriate to slow down if being tailgated. What’s going to happen if I have to brake hard to avoid an obstruction? So now we need extra braking distance to compensate for the dumb twit behind. What’s particularly annoying are the ones who don’t even want to pass, just sit close behind for whatever stupid reason.

It’s not worth getting overly annoyed about something one can’t control though. I just sit back and think how much of a failed species the human race has become…

My concern with drive slower approach is that it risks antagonising the driver of the car behind and I’m rather adverse about getting into a ‘road rage’ incident.

Occasionally I’ve had cars pull out right in front of me then seemingly brake because they seemingly think I’m momentarily too close to them straight afterwards.