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E M R - a pretentious brand with nothing to back it up? (yes I know, mainly DFT's fault)

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TT-ONR-NRN

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Are they? They have their issues and are a bit frustrating, but from where I'm sitting EMR seem to at least be providing the basics of a train service, which is rather more than elsewhere. I wouldn't say abominably bad.
Avanti and LNER are suffering the worst effects of a national problem that comes from ineffective rostering. If that is put to one side, EMR really stand out as a horrendous operation. The fact they put on this massive promotion of themselves as a strong brand, introducing mascots and big adverts and promos and stuff, without anything to back it up is what gets to me the most.

I personally find East Midlands Railway's Twitter team to be generally unhelpful and sometimes quite rude. (Same goes for a couple of notorious LNER Twitter members actually, although the vast majority are fantastic.) Many of the gateline staff at St Pancras are also somewhat unpleasant, I find.

The fact no plans for a refurbishment have progressed despite their fleet having ridiculous amount of different types of companies interiors (EMT, VTEC, LM, pre satire SR, SN, GA, HT, Anglia Railways) in completely random colours - all of which are knackered - three and a half years on from their taking over of the franchise.

Cancellation of the promised thorough refurbishment of the atrocious 360s with a simple seat recovering and addition of plug sockets, keeping 3+2 and lack of tables/seatback trays/first class in place is disgraceful. Cancellation of the standardised new seats on 170s isn't great either when posters depicting a refurbished 170 interior with new PIS and FISA Lean seats have been splattered all over the Regional fleet.

Permanent retention of very quickly ageing Sprinters despite promises to replace them all with Turbostars 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. Permanent retention of unreliable, corroding, squeaky and non-standard Adelantes despite promises to replace the entire fleet with brand new 810s is ridiculous. 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. 360 availability also ridiculous, as is the continued large amount of 2 cars on Liverpool Nottingham which keep showing up in lieu of 4 cars. Norwich Liverpool also seems to get a ridiculous amount of cancellations and/or set swaps or terminations at Nottingham. Complete lack of consistency in terms of first class to standard class ratio on Meridians is a nightmare. While I'm glad the ancient HSTs have gone, most former 8 carriage diagrams now have 5 carriages and are also very overcrowded.

A lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances, such as the DfT and changes to fleet funding and what routes stay with them and what goes, etc., I'm completely aware, but I'm not necessarily blaming the company in general for the fact they're a mess (although a fair bit of it is down to them too). I'm simply pointing out that they are a mess.

Surely I'm not the only one frustrated by EMR's constant attempts to make out that they're some iconic, well-established brand when they're so sloppy?
 
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Iskra

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I find them one of the more down to earth and reliable operators, in fact I've never experienced any disruption on their network whatsoever.

I don't see how they are pretending to be anything other than a fairly standard train service. It's not like they advertise the Orient Express and then you get a 156.

I think you just have an axe to grind with them for some reason, as I recall some historic posts of yours making a similar point.

They are getting new Intercity trains and personally I'd blame the whole rolling stock leasing system and the DFT for the mis-match of upholstery, but I don't see it as a massive problem at all.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I think you just have an axe to grind with them for some reason, as I recall some historic posts of yours making a similar point.
Genuinely, I don't. If I wanted to be petty or allow a conflict of interest to bias my opinions, which I don't, I'd slag off Lumo, CrossCountry or Avanti West Coast, as I've been treated very badly indeed by staff members from these three companies. EMR just frustrates me as it comes across as very slapdash/makeshift.
 

WizCastro197

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Avanti and LNER are suffering the worst effects of a national problem that comes from ineffective rostering. If that is put to one side, EMR really stand out as a horrendous operation. The fact they put on this massive promotion of themselves as a strong brand, introducing mascots and big adverts and promos and stuff, without anything to back it up is what gets to me the most.

I personally find East Midlands Railway's Twitter team to be generally unhelpful and sometimes quite rude. (Same goes for a couple of notorious LNER Twitter members actually, although the vast majority are fantastic.) Many of the gateline staff at St Pancras are also somewhat unpleasant, I find.

The fact no plans for a refurbishment have progressed despite their fleet having ridiculous amount of different types of companies interiors (EMT, VTEC, LM, pre satire SR, SN, GA, HT, Anglia Railways) in completely random colours - all of which are knackered - three and a half years on from their taking over of the franchise.

Cancellation of the promised thorough refurbishment of the atrocious 360s with a simple seat recovering and addition of plug sockets, keeping 3+2 and lack of tables/seatback trays/first class in place is disgraceful. Cancellation of the standardised new seats on 170s isn't great either when posters depicting a refurbished 170 interior with new PIS and FISA Lean seats have been splattered all over the Regional fleet. Station signage is also an unfortunate mess, and don't get me started on the Acapela Rachel announcements at smaller stations!

Permanent retention of very quickly ageing Sprinters despite promises to replace them all with Turbostars 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. Permanent retention of unreliable, corroding, squeaky and non-standard Adelantes despite promises to replace the entire fleet with brand new 810s is ridiculous. 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. Constant short forms on Corbys due to lack of 360 availability also ridiculous, as is the continued large amount of 2 cars on Liverpool Nottingham which keep showing up in lieu of 4 cars. Norwich Liverpool also seems to get a ridiculous amount of cancellations and/or set swaps or terminations at Nottingham. Complete lack of consistency in terms of first class to standard class ratio on Meridians is a nightmare. While I'm glad the ancient HSTs have gone, most former 8 carriage diagrams now have 5 carriages and are also very overcrowded.

A lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances, such as the DfT and changes to fleet funding and what routes stay with them and what goes, etc., I'm completely aware, but I'm not necessarily blaming the company in general for the fact they're a mess (although a fair bit of it is down to them too). I'm simply pointing out that they are a mess.

Surely I'm not the only one frustrated by EMR's constant attempts to make out that they're some iconic, well-established brand when they're so sloppy?
Of course, I get the train from Leicester sometimes, and most sets are now formed of 5 coaches (sure some are formed of 7 bu they too are busy) which is horrendous when you think that they have come from large cities and then turn up completely full and no standing room. Leicester PIS tells you to always wait for the next one as this train is 'too busy'. The next one comes a few minutes later, again completely bursting. But I guess that is out of their hands.

With the Adelantes, I don't understand how the corrosive damage in on set that forced it to reduce to four wasn't a massive red flag for EMR. I do also find it rather insulting for those who use the line more regularly that cuddly toys can come out from the TOC but a dire refurbishment of some sets that will be retained long term will not go ahead.

In regards to staff, I don't have anything to say as I haven't had many interactions, but on-board staff are generally nice on the Intercity services.

New trains hopefully a good thing. I wish that those try out seats go to Leicester so I can try them!

But, In my experience their trains do run on time, well, not always but when they don't the delay is kept to a minimum. Going to London in the evening as well from say Leicester also proves rather efficient and those trains have many seats.
 
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Iskra

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Genuinely, I don't. If I wanted to be petty or allow a conflict of interest to bias my opinions, which I don't, I'd slag off Lumo, CrossCountry or Avanti West Coast, as I've been treated very badly indeed by staff members from these three companies. EMR just frustrates me as it comes across as very slapdash/makeshift.
They can only work with what they are given (or allowed) and considering they have been short of rolling stock for ages, it's more important to keep it in service than out of action getting new interiors. I stand by my assertion that you have an axe to grind.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I do also find it rather insulting for those who sue the line more regularly that cuddly toys can come out from the TOC but a dire refurbishment of some sets that will be retained long term will not go ahead.
Do you know, I think the audacity of this is what puts me into such great disbelief. The enormous hype of - look out for something very exciting coming very soon!

Is it a new refurbishment or a deep clean of your filthy trains, which are currently all 100% in 7 other operators interiors?

Will we finally have a much needed increase in capacity?

Are the long awaited 810s beginning crew training?

Nope, they've brought out a cuddly mascot.
They can only work with what they are given (or allowed) and considering they have been short of rolling stock for ages

I literally just said that I'm not necessarily saying all the above factors are the fault of EMR, I'm simply point out how the operation comes across. Although, what is controlled by EMR, is their decision to majorly promote themselves as if they're a strong brand reflecting a fantastic train service. Do you see other companies putting up posters about refurbishments that will never come, or creating mascots and broadcasting podcasts?

As I've just said, E M R haven't really treated me badly, certainly not like I've been treated by other companies, so there's no reason to have an axe to grind. I'm simply stating that EMR comes across as having a huge number of short-comings, whether their fault or not. Wouldn't have even started a thread about it were it not for the fact I was replying to something from a thread about something completely unrelated.
 

yorksrob

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The main problem with their InterCity operation is that they were forced to get rid of their flagship fleet before adequate replacements were available. Had this not been the case, they would probably still offer the same, generally excellent service as over the past however many years they've been around.
 

py_megapixel

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Were the cancelled refurbishments actually EMR's decision? Can't really blame them if they were preparing for something and then the funding was pulled out from under them.
 

bramling

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Avanti and LNER are suffering the worst effects of a national problem that comes from ineffective rostering. If that is put to one side, EMR really stand out as a horrendous operation. The fact they put on this massive promotion of themselves as a strong brand, introducing mascots and big adverts and promos and stuff, without anything to back it up is what gets to me the most.

I personally find East Midlands Railway's Twitter team to be generally unhelpful and sometimes quite rude. (Same goes for a couple of notorious LNER Twitter members actually, although the vast majority are fantastic.) Many of the gateline staff at St Pancras are also somewhat unpleasant, I find.

The fact no plans for a refurbishment have progressed despite their fleet having ridiculous amount of different types of companies interiors (EMT, VTEC, LM, pre satire SR, SN, GA, HT, Anglia Railways) in completely random colours - all of which are knackered - three and a half years on from their taking over of the franchise.

Cancellation of the promised thorough refurbishment of the atrocious 360s with a simple seat recovering and addition of plug sockets, keeping 3+2 and lack of tables/seatback trays/first class in place is disgraceful. Cancellation of the standardised new seats on 170s isn't great either when posters depicting a refurbished 170 interior with new PIS and FISA Lean seats have been splattered all over the Regional fleet. First Class lounges are hardly ever open. Station signage is also an unfortunate mess, and don't get me started on the Acapela Rachel announcements at smaller stations - not that that's a massive issue but if I'm listing all of their disappointments I might as well add it all!

Permanent retention of very quickly ageing Sprinters despite promises to replace them all with Turbostars 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. Permanent retention of unreliable, corroding, squeaky and non-standard Adelantes despite promises to replace the entire fleet with brand new 810s is ridiculous. 10-15 years younger is ridiculous. Constant short forms on Corbys due to lack of 360 availability also ridiculous, as is the continued large amount of 2 cars on Liverpool Nottingham which keep showing up in lieu of 4 cars. Norwich Liverpool also seems to get a ridiculous amount of cancellations and/or set swaps or terminations at Nottingham. Complete lack of consistency in terms of first class to standard class ratio on Meridians is a nightmare. While I'm glad the ancient HSTs have gone, most former 8 carriage diagrams now have 5 carriages and are also very overcrowded.

A lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances, such as the DfT and changes to fleet funding and what routes stay with them and what goes, etc., I'm completely aware, but I'm not necessarily blaming the company in general for the fact they're a mess (although a fair bit of it is down to them too). I'm simply pointing out that they are a mess.

Surely I'm not the only one frustrated by EMR's constant attempts to make out that they're some iconic, well-established brand when they're so sloppy?

I do see your point, EMR does feel more like some of the bargain basement franchises we’ve seen in the past, whilst the Intercity operation seems to be trying to emulate Lumo in terms of packing people in (this isn’t anything new though, it wasn’t much different under EMT). Agree the 360 service has been something of a mess too. I suspect it will probably all come reasonably good within a couple of years though.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Were the cancelled refurbishments actually EMR's decision? Can't really blame them if they were preparing for something and then the funding was pulled out from under them.
I don't think anyone is actually reading this:

A lot of this is down to unfortunate circumstances, such as the DfT and changes to fleet funding and what routes stay with them and what goes, etc., I'm completely aware, but I'm not necessarily blaming the company in general for the fact they're a mess (although a fair bit of it is down to them too). I'm simply pointing out that do come across as a mess.
After all, the majority of customers who use EMR don't have a clue whose responsible for these short-comings.
 

Iskra

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Do you know, I think the audacity of this is what puts me into such great disbelief. The enormous hype of - look out for something very exciting coming very soon!

Is it a new refurbishment or a deep clean of your filthy trains, which are currently all 100% in 7 other operators interiors?

Will we finally have a much needed increase in capacity?

Are the long awaited 810s beginning crew training?

Nope, they've brought out a cuddly mascot.


I literally just said that I'm not necessarily saying all the above factors are the fault of EMR, I'm simply point out how the operation comes across. Although, what is controlled by EMR, is their decision to majorly promote themselves as if they're a strong brand reflecting a fantastic train service. Do you see other companies putting up posters about refurbishments that will never come, or creating mascots and broadcasting podcasts?

As I've just said, E M R haven't really treated me badly, certainly not like I've been treated by other companies, so there's no reason to have an axe to grind. I'm simply stating that EMR comes across as having a huge number of short-comings, whether their fault or not. Wouldn't have even started a thread about it were it not for the fact I was replying to something from a thread about something completely unrelated.
Transpennine had a massive advertising campaign just over a year ago, I didn't see you criticising that. At least EMR can run a train service, which is much more important than what colour the seats are or whether the paint scheme's match!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Transpennine had a massive advertising campaign just over a year ago, I didn't see you criticising that. At least EMR can run a train service, which is much more important than what colour the seats are or whether the paint scheme's match!
TransPennine Express services are entirely operated by either fully refurbished 185s or brand new stock. They’ve recently gone from pretty much everything being 3 cars to mainly 5 or 6 cars. As for the bit in bold, Norwich Liverpool is regularly truncated at Nottingham or you’re made to get off and swap between trains.

May I politely ask your reasoning for wanting to jump to EMR’s defence so passionately? And once more, I tell you that I’m not blaming them, just simply pointing out how their operation looks for a passenger’s perspective.
 

Iskra

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TransPennine Express services are entirely operated by either fully refurbished 185s or brand new stock. As for the bit in bold, Norwich Liverpool is regularly truncated at Nottingham or you’re made to get off and swap between trains.
This is Transpennine today through Sheffield:

A few alterations on the South route today:

TPE Planned Alterations 02/12/2022

South Route

1B59 03:25 Sheffield - Man Picc CAN
1B67 06:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B71 08:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B79 12:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B85 15:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B87 16:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B89 17:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN

1B91 18:24 Cleethorpes- Man Picc TERM at SHF
1B93 19:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc TERM at SHF

1B64 05:56 Man Air - Cleethorpes SRT Man Picc
1B72 10:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B74 11:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN

1B82 15:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes SRT at SHF
1B88 18:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B90 19:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN

1B94 20:45 Man Air - Cleethorpes TERM at MAN
1B96 22:20 Man Picc - Doncaster CAN

I would rather trains with non-matching interiors that run, than shiny new trains that are ECS or parked in sidings.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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On Tuesday, 2 of the 6 diagrams were 4-car. From Wednesday, 1 of the 6 diagrams has been 4-car. So a maximum of 11 units in service. Given EMR have a fleet of 21 units, why are 10 out of service for so long?. Reliability of just over 50% is appalling. Where are these 10 unserviceable units?
This also testifies against EMR’s ability to run a reliable train service @Iskra

If you read the title though, this isn’t about performance, this is about EMR’s mass promotion not matching reality. TPE’s advert featured new/refurbished trains with their brand and that is what you get.
 

Iskra

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TransPennine Express services are entirely operated by either fully refurbished 185s or brand new stock. They’ve recently gone from pretty much everything being 3 cars to mainly 5 or 6 cars. As for the bit in bold, Norwich Liverpool is regularly truncated at Nottingham or you’re made to get off and swap between trains.

May I politely ask your reasoning for wanting to jump to EMR’s defence so passionately? And once more, I tell you that I’m not blaming them, just simply pointing out how their operation looks for a passenger’s perspective.
Because I think they do a decent job on a Cinderella route and franchise with scant resources. I can only repeat that I have never had a disrupted journey with them which is quite a large sample size considering I live in Sheffield. I'm not saying that they are never disrupted. I am not employed by EMR, if that is what you are suggesting. I think you are unfair towards EMR, and I have noted that this is not the first time, so I am challenging that behaviour and your agenda.
 

yorksrob

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Even in the post HST era, I've had more decent, InterCity quality journeys on the London - Sheffield line than poor ones.
 

Iskra

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I also think that as a franchise they are where Northern were about 24 months ago, and I expect EMR to turn into a more consistently branded operation, like Northern now have. Obviously, they need a bit of time to do that.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Even in the post HST era, I've had more decent, InterCity quality journeys on the London - Sheffield line than poor ones.
The vast majority of my dissatisfaction with EMR is based off of the Connect and Regional operations.
 

WizCastro197

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Even in the post HST era, I've had more decent, InterCity quality journeys on the London - Sheffield line than poor ones.
The service itself runs smoothly RTT shows practically no cancellations from Leicester at all. The most delay I have ever experienced is only 15 minutes which really put Southern (isn't as bad as say a few years ago) and Thameslink into perspective.

I also think that as a franchise they are where Northern were about 24 months ago, and I expect EMR to turn into a more consistently branded operation, like Northern now have. Obviously, they need a bit of time to do that.
Of Course, they've only operated it for 3/4 years and 2 of them were swamped with covid which prevented many things, that's why their contract has been extended to 2030. Some marketing mistakes are rather questionable with the introduction of that toy thing, it is rather creepy looking.
 

yorksrob

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The vast majority of my dissatisfaction with EMR is based off of the Connect and Regional operations.

I've tended to avoid them for trans-pennine journeys recently due to the decline. That said my trip back from Norfolk with them in a 158 in June was pleasant enough - I don't think they claim Inter City quality on those routes anyway though.

The service itself runs smoothly RTT shows practically no cancellations from Leicester at all. The most delay I have ever experienced is only 15 minutes which really put Southern (isn't as bad as say a few years ago) and Thameslink into perspective.


Of Course, they've only operated it for 3/4 years and 2 of them were swamped with covid which prevented many things, that's why their contract has been extended to 2030. Some marketing mistakes are rather questionable with the introduction of that toy thing, it is rather creepy looking.

The issues I've had were shorter trains and overcrowding, however this was by no means a problem on all occasions.
 

WizCastro197

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I've tended to avoid them for trans-pennine journeys recently due to the decline. That said my trip back from Norfolk with them in a 158 in June was pleasant enough - I don't think they claim Inter City quality on those routes anyway though.



The issues I've had were shorter trains and overcrowding, however this was by no means a problem on all occasions.
Yes, overcrowding seems to be a big bug on EMR services and it doesn't help that most are formed of 5 coaches but I don't know how tight stock is so I can't freely say they should be doubled up into 10 coaches.

XC have overcrowding problems as well at Leicester, the only trains that don't have problems, are those going to Lincoln until they get full at I don't know where.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, overcrowding seems to be a big bug on EMR services and it doesn't help that most are formed of 5 coaches but I don't know how tight stock is so I can't freely say they should be doubled up into 10 coaches.

Indeed. It's the premature withdrawal of the HST fleet. However:

I've travelled on some reasonably loaded mid day, mid week services which have been perfectly decent.

On occasions I've made use of their very reasonable weekend first upgrade.

During one of the strike days, they ran a very good service from London to Sheffield when little else up here was running.

So all things considered, though they're no longer my first choice London - Yorkshire service, they do make the effort at times.
 

WizCastro197

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Indeed. It's the premature withdrawal of the HST fleet. However:

I've travelled on some reasonably loaded mid day, mid week services which have been perfectly decent.

On occasions I've made use of their very reasonable weekend first upgrade.

During one of the strike days, they ran a very good service from London to Sheffield when little else up here was running.

So all things considered, though they're no longer my first choice London - Yorkshire service, they do make the effort at times.
What about Leeds services? I can't recall those very well, did they run on time and were they a viable option from those travelling from Leeds to London? Must've been handy in times of disruption but would've denied space eventually for those who live on STP-Sheffield route.

I did see that on EMRs website about cheaper first class, I haven't had the pleasure of trying them however, only the Midland Mainline ones when I was 6-9. Standard is also very comfy got to give it to them. I did hope they'd retain the 222s with new seat covers but I guess that won't happen.
 

yorksrob

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What about Leeds services? I can't recall those very well, did they run on time and were they a viable option from those travelling from Leeds to London? Must've been handy in times of disruption but would've denied space eventually for those who live on STP-Sheffield route.

Yes, I used them for around fifteen years (EMT/EMR). They were generally reliable, and because they were HST's very comfortable and catering was good and reasonably priced.

I can't fault this period at all.

In terms of taking seats away from Sheffield passengers, not many did the trip past Sheffield (ECML to Leeds took about an hour less) I did because it was more comfortable and better priced, however there were usually a few got on at Sheffield for a fast service North.
 
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dwalks

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Constant short forms on Corbys due to lack of 360 availability also ridiculous

I'd be interested to know whether this statement is data driven or whether it's anecdotal.

As someone who uses the Corby - St Pancras at least three times a week with no "normal" schedule (e.g. outbound and inbound journeys varying across the day), I think i've only had three instances of short forms in the last two years. Are short forms more common at certain times of the day, maybe first and last thing when demand is quieter?
 

DDB

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To start with a positive when I travel I always see the guard come through the train on a regular basis. When I travel by CrossCountry instead they are much more likely to just stay in the cab.

Also lots of things in the OP are not in the control of EMR.

What bugs me is the things that are in their control.

We have lots of missing trains due to them mucking up the timetable change 18 months ago but there is very little communication about it.
When there is a lack of trains due to a strike they fall over themselves to put up posters and make announcements about it. When it is them they are practically silent.
If they have time to do comms about purple mascots they have time to do comms about stuff that matters like progress on restoring the service.

There is a problem with how some journeys of the Spondon replacement bus service is entered into the system as it is marked as passing Spondon not calling Spondon. I have raised this numerous times through all sorts of channels. One of two things is happening. Either all these messages are being passed onto the planners and they are looking at it and concluding that having a replacement bus service marked as not calling at the station that is its reason to exist and is fine or all the staff are not passing on the message which is treating their customers with contempt.

I have had Nottingham Station supervisors office promise to phone Derby and have arrived at Derby to find thier supervisors office adamant they haven't been called so someone is lying.

The helppoint at Spondon connects to EMR as they manage the station but they refuse to help with CrossCountry services that call there. That is unacceptable. If you take the fee for managing the station you need to help passengers abaddoned there regardless of who did it.

The managers were dragged kicking and screaming to a public meeting about the Matlock services not going through to Nottingham. They repeatedly said they couldn't stay too long for questions as they had a train to catch yet when they left the meeting went to the car park not the train station.

I have actually caught staff lying to me and eventually got EMR to admit that had happened.
 

tbtc

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EMR seem “more sinned against than sinner”, at the mercy of poor government decisions/ Covid etc (for example, nobody seems to want to take a final decision on the splitting/ retaining/ home of the Liverpool-Norwich services)

They’ve increased capacity on a number of services, given the way that 170s have replaced single/ two coach 153/156s, but obviously they’ve been dependent on circumstances around the country for when they could finally take these trains on

Maybe it’d have been better to keep these trains in sidings until they had sufficient matching fabric but they took the decision to introduce longer/better trains instead.

Maybe some passengers are more bothered with getting a seat on a Turbostar than cramming onto a single 153, rather than worrying about the seat being a different colour to the one on yesterday’s train?

If passenger numbers on the Corby line don’t require more than a double up EMU then I’m fine with “just” The right coaches on a route previously operated by four coach 222s

I’d certainly welcome more carriages on the Liverpool-Nottingham section of that service but I’d also welcome clarity over things like whether the service will be run by the same people as do the “other” Liverpool-Sheffield trains (the Cleethorpes route) - the government seem frit though

EMR really stand out as a horrendous operation. The fact they put on this massive promotion of themselves as a strong brand, introducing mascots and big adverts and promos and stuff, without anything to back it up is what gets to me the most

I’m slightly surprised to see such an attempt at a hatchet job on a fairly inoffensive TOC - other than the seat obsessives (who predictably managed to find a way to complain about the seating display at certain stations) and the people who can’t accept the scrapping of the 1970s trains with period features

It just feels like a lot of modern newspaper columnists, trying to be contrary and going against the grain by suggesting that the “real” problem is actually not the huge issue that everyone was talking about but something much more minor

don't get me started on the Acapela Rachel announcements at smaller stations - not that that's a massive issue but if I'm listing all of their disappointments I might as well add it all!

This feels like a mistake to mention

If you’re making a complaint then you should stick to the main points, hammer them home, compare the current situation with either how things were in the past (e.g. if Stagecoach’s EMT provided twelve coach Corby services and at least six coaches on all Liverpool-Norwich trains) or how they are elsewhere (e.g. how much more reliable Avanti are for journeys between the Midlands and London)

Stretching out your list of points to include such minor issues as the “a Capella” voice in certain station announcements just makes this look like a grudge - you’d look a lot better with a small number of well argued points than cobbling together as many trivial things as possible (which just makes it all sounds a bit petty)

Think of a complaint like a pizza. You’re much better off with a handful of ingredients, maybe just a couple if toppings, rather than throwing “one of everything” into the mix.

The “…and another thing” approach just makes it look like you know that your main points aren’t particularly strong so you’re going for Quantity Over Quality

Permanent retention of unreliable, corroding, squeaky and non-standard Adelantes despite promises to replace the entire fleet with brand new 810s is ridiculous. 10-15 years younger is ridiculous

While I'm glad the ancient HSTs have gone, most former 8 carriage diagrams now have 5 carriages and are also very overcrowded

So, given that the HSTs needed scrapping (or, if they were going to be retained, Stagecoach should have been throwing resources at them many years before the EMR franchise started, based on how long and unreliable the “refurbishment” has been at Scotrail - still struggling after four years to run nine or ten HST diagrams with a fleet of twenty five) you’re:

(A) complaining that there’s overcrowding on long distance/ London services
(B) complaining that EMR are keeping more trains to run the long distance/ London services than initially planned

So do you want EMR to retain the additional capacity of the 180s or not?

Surely I'm not the only one frustrated by EMR's constant attempts to make out that they're some iconic, well-established brand when they're so sloppy?

From what I’ve seen at the South Yorkshire end, they’re claiming to be a train company who runs trains and… that’s about it…

From the comments on this thread, it looks like the purple teddy bear has wound a lot of people up, but it seems a fairly uncontroversial idea to introduce a range of adverts that encourage people in the post-Covid world to plan fun days out, lots of people in the East Midlands might have visited London once or twice a year on average but lockdowns meant that they haven’t done recently and need a little encouragement: a family friendly “mascot” to encourage those leisure journeys seems fairly sensible to me

You’re seemingly claiming that they are pretending to be something that they aren’t, but I think that you’re building up a big strawman - what do you expect their adverts to be? A grainy and austere black and white video where a solemn man in a suit apologised for the fact that some different trains have different colours of seats to each other?

TransPennine Express services are entirely operated by either fully refurbished 185s or brand new stock. They’ve recently gone from pretty much everything being 3 cars to mainly 5 or 6 cars

Despite getting all of the additional carriages of loco hauled stock and the 802s (which surely gives them one of the biggest fleet surpluses in the UK?), my local TPE services have gone from a mixture of three/ six cars to either three cars or mainly zero cars (due to their industrial problems)

What’s worse though, a TOC that cancel/ short-form lots of trains a day, or a TOC that have purple teddy bears?

What about Leeds services? I can't recall those very well, did they run on time and were they a viable option from those travelling from Leeds to London?

They weren’t much use at so for Leeds passengers (other than a token number of enthusiasts who put up with the significantly longer journey times just so they could stick their head out of the window)

Really, they were placing journeys from Neville Hill (since Sheffield doesn’t have a proper depot), leaving Leeds far too early in the morning and returning far too late in the evening to suit most passengers - not only are the Leeds - MML - St Pancras trains a lot slower than Leeds - ECML - King’s Cross, but the Midland Mainline/ EMT services generally compounded this by running via Doncaster and/or Nottingham, adding even more time

They seemed a reasonable enough use of stock (given that the trains would be running ECS otherwise), and the morning services were generally on time (given that they’d just come straight from the depot), but they were essentially an irrelevance as far as Leeds passengers were concerned

if MM/EMT had wanted to give them some reason for being then I’d have suggested diverting them via either Barnsley or Rotherham so that at least these towns had some token London service (it wouldn’t have been used by huge numbers, but I’d have been a fairly cheap way of getting good publicity and a token London service would have been more use here than the strange decision to run via Doncaster

 

cactustwirly

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Their predecessor EMT was just as "slapdash" the first class lounges have always been closed at weekends for years.
Stagecoach have run down the service for years, and when Abellio took over, Covid happened before they could make significant changes.

They were forced to chop and change the HST fleet, and finally get rid of it, which was a mistake without a proper replacement. Which is why you have a very overworked and overcrowded fleet of Intercity units

The DfT have vetoed the refurbishment of the 360s, like they have done for GWR (the 166s on the Pompey line are keeping 2+3 seats for the foreseeable future)

The poor reliability is because of the substandard facilities that EMR have for the 360s. They have to be dragged to Northampton for maintenance, as there isn't enough room at Bedford to do anything major, since Thameslink have most of the depot. There's nothing that can be done, unless someone builds a new depot

It's not secret that EMT/R has been desperately short of DMUs since 2007, and there isn't enough slack in the fleet to allow for unit refurbishment
 

TheEdge

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Their predecessor EMT was just as "slapdash" the first class lounges have always been closed at weekends for years.
Stagecoach have run down the service for years, and when Abellio took over, Covid happened before they could make significant changes.

They were forced to chop and change the HST fleet, and finally get rid of it, which was a mistake without a proper replacement. Which is why you have a very overworked and overcrowded fleet of Intercity units

The shadow of the HSTs withdrawal from service will be a long one across the network. Not in a sentimental way but in a "we don't have anything to replace these with" kind of way...

The DfT have vetoed the refurbishment of the 360s, like they have done for GWR (the 166s on the Pompey line are keeping 2+3 seats for the foreseeable future)

The DfT want to know why the railways are struggling to attract people back then pull stuff like this. A nice easy win given many people won't be able to tell the difference between a new train and a well refurbished middle aged train. The 360s were tatty enough when they left GA, hate to see what they look like now.

The poor reliability is because of the substandard facilities that EMR have for the 360s. They have to be dragged to Northampton for maintenance, as there isn't enough room at Bedford to do anything major, since Thameslink have most of the depot. There's nothing that can be done, unless someone builds a new depot

WhY aReN't EmR tRaInS rElIaBlE?

It's not secret that EMT/R has been desperately short of DMUs since 2007, and there isn't enough slack in the fleet to allow for unit refurbishment

The whole network has been short of DMUs for a long time. Anglia was painful until someone with a nice fat chequebook came along and funded the 755s. I may be biased but GA is good proof of how just biting the bullet and making the big order works.
 

RailWonderer

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You've taken everybody's greviances and merged them all into a single rant, well done. Irony aside, EMR has an easy scapegoat in the DfT who they can always point to when people and in turn, local press start to complain. If it escalates to local media/politics, they can then hope to guilt trip the DfT/Treasury into giving them some subsidy. That may be wishful thinking on their part but it might work.

I wouldn't complain about slightly tired Turbostars, the ex LM ones are really the ropey ones, the ex-GA ones are of course the best (at GA we always are ;)). The Meridians do get crowded but are very comfortable and reliable. There are still too many 156s about but those will wind down soon. I like the big Miles at Sheffield, maybe I'm easier to please but it puts a nice face on travel and creates a nicer atmosphere than a gloomy corporate marketing style. I'm all for it (then I've worked in marketing myself so I'm partial to these campaigns).
 
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