East Coast Timetable Dec 24

[A S Leib]

I think the London – Edinburgh services call at Alnmouth in the hours when they don't serve Northallerton, although I don't know how much of a pathing issue serving both would cause. Looking at the 12:30 from King's Cross (Northallerton, not Alnmouth) the next service to follow it through Wallyford's the 13:00 ex-KGX nine minutes later.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Safe assumption that these shuttles will be 80xs and not Mark 4s, as such, where are the additional units for this coming from? As even without these shuttles they can’t manage to provide at least a 9 car set on every Kings X-Leeds service on a weekday, or on every Kings X-Newcastle service on a Sunday.
Can we expect workings that are currently 10-car sets to be shortened to 5-car to provide the units for these shuttles?

They will be increasing the number of 80x diagrammed every day as was always planned with any ECML timetable enhancement. The number diagrammed for traffic every day currently is well below the agreed availability requirements with Hitachi.

 

[Warrior2852]

They will be increasing the number of 80x diagrammed every day as was always planned with any ECML timetable enhancement. The number diagrammed for traffic every day currently is well below the agreed availability requirements with Hitachi.

Why have they had so many 5 car services previously then, just perceived lack of demand?

 

[800001]

They will be increasing the number of 80x diagrammed every day as was always planned with any ECML timetable enhancement. The number diagrammed for traffic every day currently is well below the agreed availability requirements with Hitachi.

54 are diagrammed each day for LNER from the total of 65 units.

How many more are going to be diagrammed?

Or do you mean more of the 54 will be diagrammed to passenger diagrams instead of being on spare diagrams?

 

[DanNCL]

They will be increasing the number of 80x diagrammed every day as was always planned with any ECML timetable enhancement. The number diagrammed for traffic every day currently is well below the agreed availability requirements with Hitachi.

I’m not interested in how many units the contract says Hitachi should provide, I’m interested in how many units they’re actually capable of providing daily. If the situation was really as good you’re portraying then there wouldn’t be any 5 car workings to anywhere other than Lincoln and Middlesbrough, the reality is quite different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many more are going to be diagrammed?

I don't know the overall effect on the timetable, but a two-hourly service taking just over an hour each way requires two units, so that's what this extra shuttle will need. As they're said to be 5-car sets I can't imagine much interworking being feasible.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't know the overall effect on the timetable, but a two-hourly service taking just over an hour each way requires two units, so that's what this extra shuttle will need. As they're said to be 5-car sets I can't imagine much interworking being feasible.

It raises the question of which 10-car services are being shortened to provide these 5-car units.

 

[43094]

No 10-car services are planned to be shortened, to provide the two units required for these services.

 

[800001]

No 10-car services are planned to be shortened, to provide the two units required for these services.

Bring back Mk4s to the north

 

[43094]

*Like*

(But before that starts any excitement, that's not the plan in the Dec 24 timetable!)

 

[DanNCL]

Bring back Mk4s to the north

Agreed!

*Like*

(But before that starts any excitement, that's not the plan in the Dec 24 timetable!)

Damn

 

[dodecahedron67]

Or why don’t they just stop the TPE trains there that now no longer will do so?

Because the new ‘fast’ paths the TPE Liverpool - Newcastles sit in don’t have time for both Chester-le-Street and Northallerton.

It should have been the Airport - Newcastle
XX07 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - CLS - Newcastle
XX43 Newcastle - CLS - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York > Airport

and
Liverpool - Newcastle
XX20 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - Newcastle
XX03 Newcastle - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York

But because there is only 1xTPE per hour, this must serve Chester-le-Street, so Northallerton has had to be dropped. Cue outrage and the LNER shuttles

 

[800001]

Because the new ‘fast’ paths the TPE Liverpool - Newcastles sit in don’t have time for both Chester-le-Street and Northallerton.

It should have been the Airport - Newcastle
XX07 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - CLS - Newcastle
XX43 Newcastle - CLS - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York > Airport

and
Liverpool - Newcastle
XX20 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - Newcastle
XX03 Newcastle - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York

But because there is only 1xTPE per hour, this must serve Chester-le-Street, so Northallerton has had to be dropped. Cue outrage and the LNER shuttles

I’m fully aware of the reasons why it is happening!
It’s however such an expensive way of providing a service to Northallerton!

 

[DanNCL]

Because the new ‘fast’ paths the TPE Liverpool - Newcastles sit in don’t have time for both Chester-le-Street and Northallerton.

It should have been the Airport - Newcastle
XX07 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - CLS - Newcastle
XX43 Newcastle - CLS - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York > Airport

and
Liverpool - Newcastle
XX20 York - Northallerton - Darlington - Durham - Newcastle
XX03 Newcastle - Durham - Darlington - Northallerton - York

But because there is only 1xTPE per hour, this must serve Chester-le-Street, so Northallerton has had to be dropped. Cue outrage and the LNER shuttles

It doesn’t need to serve Chester-le-Street any more than it needs to serve Northallerton. Making TPE fast and having the LNER shuttle do both stops would have been a perfectly acceptable (and dare I say preferable) solution to skip stopping.

*edit* forgot that the shuttles were only every other hour. So yes, TPE does need to do Chester-le-Street as the London services can’t call there.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s however such an expensive way of providing a service to Northallerton!

Anyone would think someone important lives there!

 

[800001]

Anyone would think someone important lives there!

Well, not important anymore, he will be off to California soon

 

[xotGD]

"Change here for the rail replacement helicopter."

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Change here for the rail replacement helicopter."

That has actually happened in Switzerland due to a funicular being out of action.

 

[D6130]

"Change here for the rail replacement helicopter."

 

[3RDGEN]

The shuttles provide some of the long promised extra capacity between York and Newcastle which the third London - Newcastle train will eventually provide. LNER must of been gearing up for the extra services in the new timetable so will have the rolling stock and traincrew planned to provide the service whereas TPE doesn't so there isn't really any other option to fill the gaps.

Given there are a number of ten car diagrams currently on the Leeds route I assume an extra nine car set will be diagrammed for service and the ten car split to provide for the two shuttles.

 

[cle]

The shuttles provide some of the long promised extra capacity between York and Newcastle which the third London - Newcastle train will eventually provide. LNER must of been gearing up for the extra services in the new timetable so will have the rolling stock and traincrew planned to provide the service whereas TPE doesn't so there isn't really any other option to fill the gaps.

Given there are a number of ten car diagrams currently on the Leeds route I assume an extra nine car set will be diagrammed for service and the ten car split to provide for the two shuttles.

So will these shuttles eventually become those, and extend to King's Cross?

 

[3RDGEN]

So will these shuttles eventually become those, and extend to King's Cross?

The plan was a third Newcastle - London so if/when that is introduced you would assume the shuttles will go.

 

[Bald Rick]

The plan was a third Newcastle - London so if/when that is introduced you would assume the shuttles will go.

Yes they do.

 

[Class 466]

Still think it's a shame the already crowded LNER services to Aberdeen/Inverness become the 'slow' Edinburgh in this timetable. Surely a capacity nightmare waiting to happen given they're often full before they get to Edinburgh on the London bound journeys.

 

[PigScroll]

Forgive me if this has been discussed already.

Alnmouth currently gets a fairly even hourly alternating LNER and XC (+ some TP), yet southbound in the late afternoon there's
- 15:00 LNER
- 15:06 XC
- 15:26 TP
then nothing until
- 18:00 LNER
- 18:09 XC
after which things get a bit more regular again.

It seems a bit silly to overlap then leave such a big gap. Is there a reason for this and/or any plans to even it out in the new ECML timetable? I might be a bit naive in thinking it wouldn't be too hard to swap a couple of stops around to make this better.

 

[800001]

Still think it's a shame the already crowded LNER services to Aberdeen/Inverness become the 'slow' Edinburgh in this timetable. Surely a capacity nightmare waiting to happen given they're often full before they get to Edinburgh on the London bound journeys.

In which timetable are you on about? In the Dec 24 timetable, Aberdeen and Inverness services remain as they are, the ‘fast’ services.

 

[Class 466]

In which timetable are you on about? In the Dec 24 timetable, Aberdeen and Inverness services remain as they are, the ‘fast’ services.

I mean in the recast that was due for Dec - the original consultation documents had these services as the slows. One would assume that’ll still be the case in Dec 25.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Its not happening in Dec 24. Ive no doubt there will be a proper announcement.

No rush then to get a return on all the billions the taxpayer has invested in infrastructure enhancements

What is going to change between now and Dec 2025 to magically enable this timetable? Seems like another excuse to kick the can down the road....
If nothing is changing infrastructure wise, the industry needs to get on with it and deliver whatever (maybe limited) improvements are possible.

And that is what is happening.

Will the new East Coast Mainline timetable be delivered for December 2025? Has enough progress been made for this? AIUI it is needed to open Cambridge South Station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mean in the recast that was due for Dec - the original consultation documents had these services as the slows. One would assume that’ll still be the case in Dec 25.

Isn't that capacity issue mitigated by the additional hourly Newcastle?

 

[A S Leib]

I think First wants an additional daily London – Newcastle and Hull (and Sheffield via Retford and Lumo to Glasgow); I'm guessing an extra four services each way per day won't cause a massive issue, but how likely is it that there'll be a point where the three open-access operators can't be allowed to run any more services?