East Coast Timetable Dec 24

[Clarence Yard]

That’s for the ORR to decide, once NR has reported in to them with their assessment of available capacity and the change in performance.

 

[InOban]

Actually moving the Aberdeen /Inverness services to the slows makes commercial sense. Most of their passengers will be travelling to the intermediate stations, with end to end traffic going by air. A remarkable proportion of traffic from Edinburgh isn't going the whole way to London, it's one of the strengths of the ECML.

 

[Halish Railway]

Actually moving the Aberdeen /Inverness services to the slows makes commercial sense. Most of their passengers will be travelling to the intermediate stations, with end to end traffic going by air. A remarkable proportion of traffic from Edinburgh isn't going the whole way to London, it's one of the strengths of the ECML.

But if anything its a disadvantage of the current and future pattern of having a fast and a semi-fast service from Edinburgh (and beyond) to London, rather than what is seen on the West Yorkshire to London services where the two hourly services have roughly the same end-to-end journey time but a different stopping pattern, striking a better balance between journey times and connectivity.

For example, a stopping pattern of Edinburgh-Newcastle-Darlington-York-Doncaster-Peterborough-London which could be used by services originating from beyond Edinburgh would only see one more stop than the status quo (Doncaster and Peterborough in place of Berwick) but does a much better job at serving the intermediate stations that have a great number of connecting services.

 

[A S Leib]

That does make sense, which is why Avanti's decision of going the other way and eliminating stops south of Coventry on most of the Euston – West Midlands – Preston services rather than having one calling at Milton Keynes and one calling at Watford Junction and Rugby seems odd to me.

 

[43074]

Will the new East Coast Mainline timetable be delivered for December 2025? Has enough progress been made for this? AIUI it is needed to open Cambridge South Station.

Believe it is still on for December 25.

NR's System Operator function seem to be sweeping the station concourse at Milton Keynes getting anyone with a pair of eyes in to try and solve the conflicts so it's ready.

That does make sense, which is why Avanti's decision of going the other way and eliminating stops south of Coventry on most of the Euston – West Midlands – Preston services rather than having one calling at Milton Keynes and one calling at Watford Junction and Rugby seems odd to me.

But if anything its a disadvantage of the current and future pattern of having a fast and a semi-fast service from Edinburgh (and beyond) to London, rather than what is seen on the West Yorkshire to London services where the two hourly services have roughly the same end-to-end journey time but a different stopping pattern, striking a better balance between journey times and connectivity.

For example, a stopping pattern of Edinburgh-Newcastle-Darlington-York-Doncaster-Peterborough-London which could be used by services originating from beyond Edinburgh would only see one more stop than the status quo (Doncaster and Peterborough in place of Berwick) but does a much better job at serving the intermediate stations that have a great number of connecting services.

I'd concur with that - especially when there are Edinburgh/London trains calling at Newcastle and York only which will be advertised between 4hr11 and 4hr17, an Azuma ought to be doing that stopping pattern in little over 4 hours.

A journey time of say 4 hr 10 would give consistently fast journey times from the likes of Newcastle and York roughly every half hour as well, rather than having 2 glorified semi fast trains per hour as is proposed.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Hopefully we should know very soon if the new East Coast Mainline timetable will go ahead in December 2025.
With the following webcast of the North Committee Meeting today 20 November 2024

Rail North Committee - Wednesday 20 November 2024, 11:00am - Transport for the North Webcasting

Rail North Committee - Wednesday 20 November 2024, 11:00am - Transport for the North Webcasting

transportforthenorth.public-i.tv

The following report on the work of the East Coast Main Line Task Force which has recommended to Ministers that the new ECML timetable should now happen in December 2025 and wants Ministers to decide by 22 November 2024 but this recommendation is not unanimous.

https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=10132

4.1 In order to consider when, or if the proposed timetable should be introduced on the ECML, a Task Force was established. This is comprised of senior rail industry figures and includes Transport for the North and Transport Scotland in addition to the Department for Transport. The Chief Executive represents TfN on the Task Force and they in turn liaise regularly with senior officers from partner authorities along the ECML.
4.2 The Task Force has recommended that the originally proposed December 2024 timetable should be introduced in December 2025 and the Task Force Chair has written to Ministers to confirm this position. The Task Force was not able to reach a unanimous position. Freight Operating Companies are not supportive due to the inability to accommodate growth in traffic and other changes; and Transport Scotland has reservations over capacity and power supply issues in Scotland. Transport for the North was clear that it would take a position following engagement including with elected Members. The Task Force Chair briefed the Rail North Committee on 21 October 2024.

Letter from Andy Burnham Chair Rail North Committee to Rail Minister Lord Hendy stating Transport for the North's support for introducing the new ECML timetable in December 2025 subject to a long list of conditions and making the point about previous governments cutting the scope of the originally planned infrastructure investment, claiming that the ORR has allocated additional access right on the assumption that the originally planned infrastructure investment would be completed in full.

https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=10133

We recognise that considerable investment has been made in both track and trains for the ECML. We also recognise the importance of realising the benefit of that investment at the earliest opportunity.
However, it is a matter of fact that part of the problem we collectively face with the ECML is that the scope of infrastructure investment originally planned was cut back by previous governments. The impact of this has been compounded by decisions taken by the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) to allocate additional access rights on the assumption that the infrastructure as originally scoped would be delivered.

 

[43074]

The following report on the work of the East Coast Main Line Task Force which has recommended to Ministers that the new ECML timetable should now happen in December 2025 and wants Ministers to decide by 22 November 2024 but this recommendation is not unanimous.

I think the more relevant extracts from that TfN paper are below, which explain performance modelling on the December 2025 timetable shows it will lead to a deterioration in performance, despite the ORR having written to NR recently requiring them to produce a plan to address poor performance on the Eastern Region, and it is not compatible with indicative timetables for Transpennine Upgrade so the ECML will require another recast in a few years to ensure the benefits of TRU can be realised. It's a very poor situation for the industry to find itself in really, the very fact that the report draws comparisons with May 2018 shows how much risk is riding on it.

4.5 Since the briefing to Committee Members in October, two further issues have emerged. The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) has written to Network Rail requiring it to develop a plan to improve performance on its Eastern Region. This is in response to poor performance on some routes including the ECML. ORR requires Network Rail to produce this plan by 20 December 2024. This is a material consideration given the proposed December 2025 timetable is forecast to lead to a reduction in performance.

4.6 In addition, technical work on the TRU concept timetable shows that the ECML as currently configured north of York will not be able to accommodate the TRU service specification given the available infrastructure and the planned new timetable structure.

4.7 With works on TRU on schedule to be completed in the early 2030’s there is merit in implementing an ECML timetable that allows the benefits of the recent £4bn investment to be realised. The investment in TRU will be more than £10bn...TfN is seeking a commitment from the rail industry that the necessary work will be commissioned in time to enable a revised ECML timetable to be introduced upon completion of TRU.

 

[ainsworth74]

Please see the dedicated thread for the discussion of the December 2025 timetable which can be found here.

 

[Trainguy34]

So will there be a change to the IC225 Diagrams, can't find it anywhere.

 

[gabrielhj07]

So will there be a change to the IC225 Diagrams, can't find it anywhere.

No change

 

[Trainguy34]

That's lucky, hopefully I'll get on one before they go the.

 

[Paul Duck]

To add to more confusion for passengers at Northallerton:
So on weekends in January and 1st 2 weekends in February we keep the TPE Newcastle Liverpool services calling at Northallerton at the times they currently do. Then we have 5 weekends of Durham Coast diverts so no TPE Newcastle services. Plus for 3 mid weeks in March the Newcastle To Liverpool TPE services stop at Northallerton in both directions and the LNER shuttles don't. 22/23rd March York to Leeds/Doncaster shut so back to TPE Newcastle services stopping again at Northallerton. Then for all the weekends from 29th March until timetable change in May we keep the TPE Newcastle services stopping at Northallerton.

 

[Peter A]

To add to more confusion for passengers at Northallerton:
So on weekends in January and 1st 2 weekends in February we keep the TPE Newcastle Liverpool services calling at Northallerton at the times they currently do. Then we have 5 weekends of Durham Coast diverts so no TPE Newcastle services. Plus for 3 mid weeks in March the Newcastle To Liverpool TPE services stop at Northallerton in both directions and the LNER shuttles don't. 22/23rd March York to Leeds/Doncaster shut so back to TPE Newcastle services stopping again at Northallerton. Then for all the weekends from 29th March until timetable change in May we keep the TPE Newcastle services stopping at Northallerton.

At the end of the day it comes down to pathing - there's two 'TPE' paths from Newcastle, the express one at XX:01 and the stopper one at XX:43 - currently the Liverpool service is in the XX:43 path due to the need to stop at both Newton-le-Willows and Lea Green etc so there's time for a Northallerton call. From Dec it moves to the express XX:01 path which means no Northallerton call. The XX:43 path was previously picked up by the Newcastle to Manchester Airport/Piccadilly service - as this is no more the LNER shuttles have been introduced. Worth noting the XX:01 path TPE has been adjusted to fit in Chester-le-Street which should technically be served by the LNER stopper but isn't for obvious reasons (no LNER services there currently).

As the LNER shuttles serve no other purpose than to plug the Northallerton gap, on weekends when TRU engineering works mean TPE diversions via Brighouse it's obviously been decided that the Liverpool TPE service return to it's XX:43 path to allow extra time for the diversion and save the LNER shuttles from having to run. I appreciate not ideal in terms of consistency but also only a short-term measure until Dec 2025.