East Lancashire Railway/Metrolink

[Sox]

I think this has been touched on before but do the interconnecting points between the East Lancs Railway and the Metrolink serve any purpose?

Noticed the points the other day on a trip from Manchester to Bury Market and they looked perfectly serviceable.

Could you drive a steam engine into Manchester via the original Bury Line or could they be used as a cripple siding for trams?

 

[billio]

Try this :

http://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/13791027.VIDEO__Steam_returns_to_Radcliffe_station/

 

[Ianno87]

See also the comment at the bottom of the article.

The connection has been used the 'other' way as well; some of the original T68s went to the old Bury Electric depot soon after delivery for remedial modifications, and one T68 was put in display in the back platform at Bolton Street station during an ELR gala before the system opened.

 

[alexl92]

Is this the only place in the UK where you could feasibly take a steam locomotive into the centre of a city on tram lines? (Without requiring road movement or anything)

 

[Bevan Price]

Is this the only place in the UK where you could feasibly take a steam locomotive into the centre of a city on tram lines? (Without requiring road movement or anything)

I doubt that any steam loco larger than a 0-4-0T could get round the curves at Manchester Victoria.....

 

[edwin_m]

Didn't they have to tie the OLE out of the way to get standard size rolling stock onto Metrolink for the engineering work. Or are the Austerity and the diesel mentioned small enough to fit within the profile of the trams?

See also this "oops" when the ELR link was used when not intended!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...le-near-bury-greater-manchester-22-march-2016

A multi-purpose vehicle (MPV) ran away down a gradient during fault-finding of the vehicle’s air braking system. The MPV left the East Lancashire Railway’s infrastructure and entered the off-street section of the Manchester Metrolink light rail system, where it derailed on a set of trap points. No-one was injured as a result of the accident. However, the MPV was damaged and came to rest foul of the northbound Metrolink line between Radcliffe and Bury tram stops.

 

[coxxy]

If I remember rightly there is also a crossover between NWR and metrolink at Altrincham.. and think there used to be one at Manchester Vic East junction too.

 

[cin88]

It's used for engineering access/the odd stock borrowing by metrolink. Very much a "you scratch my back" type thing, the floodlights on Buckley Wells were left there by Metrolink after they were done borrowing the yard, according to the gents that teach the ELR's basic safety course.

One of their old T68s is actually on road minus one at Buckley Wells, coverred in graffiti and generally just in the way in some people's opinion. Personally i'd like to see it restored and put in the transport museum, space permitting of course.

 

[Ianno87]

Didn't they have to tie the OLE out of the way to get standard size rolling stock onto Metrolink for the engineering work. Or are the Austerity and the diesel mentioned small enough to fit within the profile of the trams?

See also this "oops" when the ELR link was used when not intended!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...le-near-bury-greater-manchester-22-march-2016

The 08 that was borrowed during the 2007 track renewals was indeed of the cut down cab variety to fit under the low-height wires.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is this the only place in the UK where you could feasibly take a steam locomotive into the centre of a city on tram lines? (Without requiring road movement or anything)

Would technically be possible (sharp curves etc. permitting) on the Sheffield Supertram once the TramTrain link is finished at Meadowhall. Although the steam engine would have quite a journey to get there (NRM, KWVR or the Midland Railway Butterley being the nearest!)

 

[Shrimper]

One of their old T68s is actually on road minus one at Buckley Wells, coverred in graffiti and generally just in the way in some people's opinion. Personally i'd like to see it restored and put in the transport museum, space permitting of course.

Not any more; it's been removed to the new GM Fire Service training site. One T68 is earmarked for the Heaton Park tramway, with two more still in the yard at Trafford.

If I remember rightly there is also a crossover between NWR and metrolink at Altrincham.. and think there used to be one at Manchester Vic East junction too.

There is indeed; the one at Vic East was removed before the Victoria single line working, with Network Rail plain lining their part of it a bit more recently, can't remember exactly when though.

 

[Sox]

Try this :

http://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/13791027.VIDEO__Steam_returns_to_Radcliffe_station/

Cheers, no disputing that one!

 

[copernicium112]

Was there also a connection at Rochdale too?

 

[pdeaves]

Was there also a connection at Rochdale too?

Yes, but it has gone now. There is (or was) a connection by Newton Heath depot, too (an extension of what is now the freight stub of the Oldham loop).

 

[SeanG]

The connections at Victoria & Altrincham are now out of use. There was no connection at Rochdale.

The 08/9s were actually cut down for use on a branch in South Wales with limited bridge clearance IIRC, rather than specifically for Metrolink, but were nevertheless very useful

 

[theageofthetra]

I bet one of the Port of Par tanks Alfred or Judy would fit! Now that would be something to see.

 

[snowball]

Was there also a connection at Rochdale too?

Yes, but it has gone now.

There has never been a connection between Metrolink and Network Rail at Rochdale. The previous conection between the NR Oldham-Rochdale line and the main line was removed during the construction of Metrolink, probably at an early stage.

The Quail/Trackmaps map wrongly shows a connection and even shows the location in miles and chains of the NR/Metrolink boundary. Presumably this indicates that it was at one time planned to have a connection.

Edit: time overlap with SeanG.

Edited again to mention the map.

 

[pdeaves]

There has never been a connection between Metrolink and Network Rail at Rochdale. The previous conection between the NR Oldham-Rochdale line and the main line was removed during the construction of Metrolink, probably at an early stage.

The Quail/Trackmaps map wrongly shows a connection and even shows the location in miles and chains of the NR/Metrolink boundary. Presumably this indicates that it was at one time planned to have a connection.

The signalling plan shows a connection (extract attached, unfortunately I don't know how to make it bigger) and I recall the weekly notices talking about the connection being taken out of use and removed (I can't remember when and haven't the means to check at this time).

 

[takno]

The Quail/Trackmaps map wrongly shows a connection and even shows the location in miles and chains of the NR/Metrolink boundary. Presumably this indicates that it was at one time planned to have a connection.

As does the Sectional Appendix.

 

[snowball]

Here's a cab video of Metrolink from Shaw to Rochdale Railway Station published by the Manchester Evening News on 27 February 2013, the day before that section opened to passengers. The remains of the severed Network Rail connection can be seen down on the left at about 3:08.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...hester-news/video-take-first-trip-new-1493073

So there has been no usable connection since 2009 when the NR Oldham loop closed for conversion. The sectional appendix and signalling plan are out of date by over 7 years.

 

[Shrimper]

There definitely isn't a connection; though there are stop boards and telephones in place as though there was!

There is a connection, blocked with some sleepers, at Newton Heath as pdeaves states.

I wasn't aware of the Altrincham connection being out of use, though don't recall anything using it so it could well be! Tampers for the Altrincham line can be loaded and unloaded at Trafford Depot with ballast being brought in by road and moved down the line with RRVs.

 

[Chris125]

The ELR connection was also used extensively in 2010, these are some of the videos on youtube of the associated workings:

[youtube]_XgJrS_p1tM[/youtube]

[youtube]s0h_MUkBaDY[/youtube]

[youtube]Hjy2egsBKQY[/youtube]

 

[Ash Bridge]

The clearance between the platform edge and the sides of the bogie frames/wagons looks uncomfortably tight compared to a heavy rail station, or is it exaggerated somewhat by the video would anyone know?

 

[rebmcr]

The clearance between the platform edge and the sides of the bogie frames/wagons looks uncomfortably tight compared to a heavy rail station, or is it exaggerated somewhat by the video would anyone know?

It's tighter, to facilitate accessible boarding. Unusual stock does have to be used carefully (i.e. slowing down past platforms, making sure that 'too big' stock isn't used, etc).

 

[Ash Bridge]

It's tighter, to facilitate accessible boarding. Unusual stock does have to be used carefully (i.e. slowing down past platforms, making sure that 'too big' stock isn't used, etc).

Thanks for the reply, presume then that heavy rail passenger stock such as a 150 for example would be way to wide to pass through the station unless the platform edge coping was removed?

 

[rebmcr]

Thanks for the reply, presume then that heavy rail passenger stock such as a 150 for example would be way to wide to pass through the station unless the platform edge coping was removed?

Probably easier to remove the kickplates at door level.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't a small tank engine (a travel kettle, one might say ) used for engineering work on the Bury line a few years ago?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Wasn't a small tank engine (a travel kettle, one might say ) used for engineering work on the Bury line a few years ago?

Have a look at posting #2 up thread.

 

[WatcherZero]

A Rochdale connection was planned and NR signalling software even updated for it but it was never built.
Victoria connection was removed during station refurbishment works.
Altrincham connection still exists and is scotched.
ELR connection is in active use (on average used at least once a year).

Heaton Park Tramway dream of one day connecting their line to the Metrolink network so a heritage charter could operate to the city centre.

 

[Ianno87]

A Rochdale connection was planned and NR signalling software even updated for it but it was never built.
Victoria connection was removed during station refurbishment works.
Altrincham connection still exists and is scotched.
ELR connection is in active use (on average used at least once a year).

Heaton Park Tramway dream of one day connecting their line to the Metrolink network so a heritage charter could operate to the city centre.

AIUI, the signalling for the Victoria crossover was never fully comissioned following the 1998 resignalling into Manchester North.

Altrincham was used in the 1991-2 conversion period to transfer a 47 over to Metrolink metals. This was to run up and down to de-rust the rails (effectively unused since the Altrincham BR line shutdown on Christmas Eve 1991) in the long, hot, dry summer so the track circuits would detect trams properly.

 

[Shrimper]

The Sectional Appendix still indicates it is possible to use the Altrincham crossover, albeit under very limited circumstances (possession of all lines).

Non-Metrolink trains may only run over the Metrolink lines during engineering operations when a possession has been taken of the line(s) concerned in accordance with the Rule Book Module T3. In addition, the connection between the Up Main line and the Outbound line at Altrincham may only be used when a possession has been taken of both lines in accordance with the Rule Book Module T3.