East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Magdalia]

There was another long item about East West Rail on BBC Look East this evening, coinciding with the first public drop in event at Bedford. It included an interview with Beth West EWR CEO.

Part of the BBC Look East report was also about the proposals for Tempsford which has a story on the BBC website here:

A new £5bn railway line connecting Cambridge and Oxford will transform much of the area between the two university cities. It could see one Bedfordshire village grow from a population of about 600 to more than 44,000. What would that change mean for people living there and how do they feel about it?

East West Rail: Could a new rail link 'tear apart' a village?

A new village station could "unlock" land for housing and see its population rise to 44,000.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LYRobert]

It's down to the local Planning Authority to determine where developments should go, not a railway company!

 

[D365]

It's down to the local Planning Authority to determine where developments should go, not a railway company!

Indeed. I have seen very little, if any, similar recent commentary regarding new housing developments resulting from the A421 and A428 upgrades.

 

[zwk500]

It's down to the local Planning Authority to determine where developments should go, not a railway company!

The railway company is serving sites where local authorities have identified potential for major new housing developments. In turn, the local authorities have identified sites consistent with government policy to build lots of houses in this corridor. Hence why the government has supported the development of the railway here.

Indeed. I have seen very little, if any, similar recent commentary regarding new housing developments resulting from the A421 and A428 upgrades.

Funny that. New roads where people can drive on them like lunatics for free are fine, even if they bring housing, but railways where you have to pay for a professional to convey you safely to your destination are nasty, evil things.

 

[camflyer]

There was another long item about East West Rail on BBC Look East this evening, coinciding with the first public drop in event at Bedford. It included an interview with Beth West EWR CEO.

Part of the BBC Look East report was also about the proposals for Tempsford which has a story on the BBC website here:

East West Rail: Could a new rail link 'tear apart' a village?

A new village station could "unlock" land for housing and see its population rise to 44,000.

www.bbc.co.uk

Got to love the "69 year old teacher" who says "Very few people need to get to Cambridge."

 

[Redbus74]

Heard it on bbc three counties radio too. Apparently the Bedford and Cambridge MP’s are opposing the Bedford to Cambridge route and it was being debated in the house of commons yesterday.

There seems so much against this scheme, i think it will just drag on and on and costs will go up and up, giving the “No camp” more reason.

 

[Steve Harris]

Funny that. New roads where people can drive on them like lunatics for free are fine, even if they bring housing, but railways where you have to pay for a professional to convey you safely to your destination are nasty, evil things.

Sorry, but the vast majority of people don't drive for free, as there is such a thing as Road Tax (and fuel duty). The only people who drive for free will be those with electric vehicles (as I believe that currently the road fund licence is 0 for them, but moving forward I expect that to change), however, they still pay tax on that new electric vehicle when they buy it.

 

[zwk500]

Sorry, but the vast majority of people don't drive for free, as there is such a thing as Road Tax (and fuel duty). The only people who drive for free will be those with electric vehicles (as I believe that currently the road fund licence is 0 for them, but moving forward I expect that to change), however, they still pay tax on that new electric vehicle when they buy it.

Having owned a car myself I'm well aware of Car Tax (Official name Vehicle Excise Duty, its not road tax). And of course wesr and tear, fuel, maintenance etc.
However if you already own the car then the new road is, effectively free to use when it opens.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Got to love the "69 year old teacher" who says "Very few people need to get to Cambridge."

Some might say forget more trains to Cambridge station, we need one from Cambridge station actually to the town! It's an awful trek.

 

[Magdalia]

Some might say forget more trains to Cambridge station, we need one from Cambridge station actually to the town! It's an awful trek.

For East West Rail the proximity of the main station to the old town centre is not an important consideration, compared to connecting with the Biomedical Campus and the area around the main station itself.

For those wanting to get to the town centre from the main railway station there are plenty of buses and the fare is £1.

And for those who walk, follow the cycling route via the back streets (Lyndewode Road and Gresham Road) and across Parker's Piece. That's not an awful trek.

 

[Steve Harris]

Some might say forget more trains to Cambridge station, we need one from Cambridge station actually to the town! It's an awful trek.

Blame the university for that one !

I was told by a History teacher at school years ago that the university didn't want smelly smokey trains in their town when the railway line was built. So it was built on the outskirts (as they were at that time) of the town (and Cambridge was a town still when the railway was built).

 

[Magdalia]

Blame the university for that one !

I was told by a History teacher at school years ago that the university didn't want smelly smokey trains in their town when the railway line was built. So it was built on the outskirts (as they were at that time) of the town (and Cambridge was a town still when the railway was built).

Your history teacher was correct.

The University, amongst other things, insisted that the station should not be less than 1 mile from Great St Mary's Church.

Early proposals had the station near to Christ's Pieces or Jesus Green. Cambridge would be a very different and, in my view, less attractive place if that had happened.

 

[camflyer]

Some might say forget more trains to Cambridge station, we need one from Cambridge station actually to the town! It's an awful trek.

Plenty of pubs on the way for a rest and refreshment though!

Zero chance of a heavy rail station in the actual centre of Cambridge - but that's where we need a proper plan for a metro, tram or modern bus network. Scrapping the CAM proposal was the right thing to do but nothing has emerged to replace it - but that is drifting into the realms of speculation so I'd better stop here to avoid the wrath of the mods.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Plenty of pubs on the way for a rest and refreshment though!

Zero chance of a heavy rail station in the actual centre of Cambridge - but that's where we need a proper plan for a metro, tram or modern bus network. Scrapping the CAM proposal was the right thing to do but nothing has emerged to replace it - but that is drifting into the realms of speculation so I'd better stop here to avoid the wrath of the mods.

True, plenty of pubs to help use get there but Cambridge is not alone in having a station outside the city centre, locally Norwich is the same and I don't think Ipswich is in the centre either

 

[Class 170101]

True, plenty of pubs to help use get there but Cambridge is not alone in having a station outside the city centre, locally Norwich is the same and I don't think Ipswich is in the centre either

But somewhat closer to their centres than Cambridge I would suggest having walked all three.

 

[Tobbes]

Plenty of pubs on the way for a rest and refreshment though!

Zero chance of a heavy rail station in the actual centre of Cambridge - but that's where we need a proper plan for a metro, tram or modern bus network. Scrapping the CAM proposal was the right thing to do but nothing has emerged to replace it - but that is drifting into the realms of speculation so I'd better stop here to avoid the wrath of the mods.

I'm with Camflyer - a proper tram system would be great for Cambridge, esp. if it had a tunnelled central section as I believe has been proposed in 2018 before the CAM nonsense came about?

 

[camflyer]

But somewhat closer to their centres than Cambridge I would suggest having walked all three.

At least Norwich and Ipswich stations are close to their football grounds. Cambridge Utd really is a hike for those arriving by train (although not as bad as Oxford)

 

[jfowkes]

I'm with Camflyer - a proper tram system would be great for Cambridge, esp. if it had a tunnelled central section as I believe has been proposed in 2018 before the CAM nonsense came about?

Yeah by Cambridge Connect who are still trying.

 

[tspaul26]

Apparently the Bedford and Cambridge MP’s are opposing the Bedford to Cambridge route and it was being debated in the house of commons yesterday.

I have heard nothing to that effect. Have you a source for this?

It's down to the local Planning Authority to determine where developments should go, not a railway company!

This is EWR Co’s position on the matter.

 

[bspahh]

I have heard nothing to that effect. Have you a source for this?

This is Hansard on the debate on Tuesday 13 June 2023 with speeches from:
Richard Fuller, North East Bedfordshire, Con
Wera Hobhouse, Bath, Liberal Democrat
Daniel Zeichner, Cambrdge, Lab
Anthony Browne, South Cambridgeshire, Con
Mohammad Yasin, Bedford, Lab
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi, Slough, Lab, Shadow Minister for Railways
Huw Merriman, Bexhill and Battle, Con, The Minister of State, Department for Transport

 

[richieb1971]

This is Hansard on the debate on Tuesday 13 June 2023 with speeches from:
Richard Fuller, North East Bedfordshire, Con
Wera Hobhouse, Bath, Liberal Democrat
Daniel Zeichner, Cambrdge, Lab
Anthony Browne, South Cambridgeshire, Con
Mohammad Yasin, Bedford, Lab
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi, Slough, Lab, Shadow Minister for Railways
Huw Merriman, Bexhill and Battle, Con, The Minister of State, Department for Transport

That debate sums up what everyone local can see and doesn't understand. Why the route was chosen and why it needs to go through Bedford. EWR does not sell itself well in the plans. People on here might think it does, but youre selling a product nobody wants except the government and EWR.

Yes a railway is desirable. But make it a good railway. Not a twisting, turning, minimum benefit railway. The sell of the last round of maps and outlines of the route came across as weak, expensive and destructive. Nobody will support that.

 

[tspaul26]

This is Hansard on the debate on Tuesday 13 June 2023 with speeches from:
Richard Fuller, North East Bedfordshire, Con
Wera Hobhouse, Bath, Liberal Democrat
Daniel Zeichner, Cambrdge, Lab
Anthony Browne, South Cambridgeshire, Con
Mohammad Yasin, Bedford, Lab
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi, Slough, Lab, Shadow Minister for Railways
Huw Merriman, Bexhill and Battle, Con, The Minister of State, Department for Transport

Yes, I was aware of this.

As far as I can see, the MP for Bedford opposes six-tracking of the Midland Mainline (because of the associated residential property demolition), but does not oppose the selected route itself between Bedford and Cambridge.

Similarly, I don’t see any obvious instance of the MP for Cambridge objecting to the selected route between Bedford and Cambridge either.

That debate sums up what everyone local can see and doesn't understand. Why the route was chosen and why it needs to go through Bedford. EWR does not sell itself well in the plans. People on here might think it does, but youre selling a product nobody wants except the government and EWR.

Yes a railway is desirable. But make it a good railway. Not a twisting, turning, minimum benefit railway. The sell of the last round of maps and outlines of the route came across as weak, expensive and destructive. Nobody will support that.

NIMBYs gotta NIMBY

 

[zwk500]

That debate sums up what everyone local can see and doesn't understand. Why the route was chosen and why it needs to go through Bedford. EWR does not sell itself well in the plans. People on here might think it does, but youre selling a product nobody wants except the government and EWR.

A very large number of people want to live in or close to Oxford, MK and Cambridge, and therefore really, really badly want EWR so that there might be some houses to buy at a price that won't financially cripple them.

Yes a railway is desirable. But make it a good railway. Not a twisting, turning, minimum benefit railway. The sell of the last round of maps and outlines of the route came across as weak, expensive and destructive. Nobody will support that.

It's a 100mph W12 Electrification compatible railway, the deviation adds a handful of minutes onto the journey time in exchange for serving major new developments.

This is Hansard on the debate on Tuesday 13 June 2023 with speeches from:

One of the comments about how we knew to build railways in a straight line in the Victorian era did make me laugh. Evidently nobody told Brunel and his Great Way Round, or the Midland (said to have been built 'by a mountaineer, not an engineer'. Numerous other examples up and down the country of His Grace the Lord NIMBY forcing deviation after deviation as well.

 

[camflyer]

That debate sums up what everyone local can see and doesn't understand. Why the route was chosen and why it needs to go through Bedford. EWR does not sell itself well in the plans. People on here might think it does, but youre selling a product nobody wants except the government and EWR.

Yes a railway is desirable. But make it a good railway. Not a twisting, turning, minimum benefit railway. The sell of the last round of maps and outlines of the route came across as weak, expensive and destructive. Nobody will support that.

If an express non-stop dead straight line between Oxford and Cambridge was being proposed then that would get lots of complaints that it is by-passing a lot of communities who would get no benefit. The whole point of EWR is to provide better east-west connectivity from as far afield as Norwich/Ipswich to the west country. Yes, it is a bit of a "twisty-turny" but that increases connections.

 

[swt_passenger]

If an express non-stop dead straight line between Oxford and Cambridge was being proposed then that would get lots of complaints that it is by-passing a lot of communities who would get no benefit. The whole point of EWR is to provide better east-west connectivity from as far afield as Norwich/Ipswich to the west country. Yes, it is a bit of a "twisty-turny" but that increases connections.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen ‘to the west country’ in anything official. Didcot or Reading was in EWR’s literature at one stage, combining existing DMU shuttle services south of Oxford, but nothing about further west.

I’d agree it’s been regularly mentioned in the forum though.

 

[zwk500]

If an express non-stop dead straight line between Oxford and Cambridge was being proposed then that would get lots of complaints that it is by-passing a lot of communities who would get no benefit. The whole point of EWR is to provide better east-west connectivity from as far afield as Norwich/Ipswich to the west country. Yes, it is a bit of a "twisty-turny" but that increases connections.

No it's not. EWR is about getting people into and out of the towns between Oxford, MK and Cambridge. Onwards connectivity is a bonus, and the West Country connections would be two changes away (Oxford and Reading). It's twisty-turny nature is to allow the route to serve the largest projected settlements between Bedford and Cambridge.

Unfortunately, politicians (especially local councillors) tend not to like having to wrestle with such mundane matters as 'people need houses they can afford' and so it has to be sold on some other basis that will allow them to claim personal glory (see also HS2 being sold on speed not capacity). 3-word slogans are the key to politics. 'Build more homes' doesn't win votes (at least not in the areas where the houses will be built) but 'better regional connections'/'faster journey times' does. So that's what the PR goes with.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen ‘to the west country’ in anything official. Didcot or Reading maybe at one stage, combining existing DMU shuttle services, but nothing about further west.

I’d agree it’s been regularly mentioned in the forum though.

There was a Network Rail "Strategic Statement" on EWR's integration with the rest of the rail network. It's not any kind of practical plan, it's a thought-piece about how EWR could improve journey from further afield (e.g. Bristol-Norwich, Southampton-Northampton) and what needs to happen to realise these benefits. Link is here:

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/North,%20West%20and%20Central/East%20West%20Main%20Line%20Strategic%20Statement%202022.pdf

 

[zwk500]

There was a Network Rail "Strategic Statement" on EWR's integration with the rest of the rail network. It's not any kind of practical plan, it's a thought-piece about how EWR could improve journey from further afield (e.g. Bristol-Norwich, Southampton-Northampton) and what needs to happen to realise these benefits. Link is here:

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/regional-long-term-planning/North,%20West%20and%20Central/East%20West%20Main%20Line%20Strategic%20Statement%202022.pdf

That's just outlining what benefits do come about, not saying connectivity to the west is the point of EWR. Notably a lot of the GWML destinations to EWR destination will still be quicker via London.

 

[camflyer]

Yeah by Cambridge Connect who are still trying.

Still the best proposal I have seen. Rather than inventing a new form of transport with CAM, this uses tried and tested technology which is available off the shelf after being used in numerous small historic cities across Europe.

 

[Redbus74]

I have heard nothing to that effect. Have you a source for this?


This is EWR Co’s position on the matter.

its what they said on bbc three counties news in the afternoon on tuesday.