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East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

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Wyrleybart

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It's to be DOO so needs to be camera fitted units hence 196s.
I think it was, but more recently I believe Chiltern Trains are the intended operator so IMHO it may well be 168s from Chiltern's own fleet, particularly as all the class 196s are in traffic with WMR. Obviously the current plan will need WMR to lose six two car 196s and Chiltern crews to learn 196s and presumably Aylesbury depot take ownership of same. I don't see it but welcome to be proved wrong
 
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12LDA28C

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I think it was, but more recently I believe Chiltern Trains are the intended operator so IMHO it may well be 168s from Chiltern's own fleet, particularly as all the class 196s are in traffic with WMR. Obviously the current plan will need WMR to lose six two car 196s and Chiltern crews to learn 196s and presumably Aylesbury depot take ownership of same. I don't see it but welcome to be proved wrong

Aylesbury Depot will have no involvement with Class 196s, they will be maintained at Bletchley with heavier maintenance carried out at Tyseley. Bletchley drivers will sign the 196s for use on EWR, there has been no change in the intended traction used on the route so I don't know where you've heard any different. Chiltern certainly don't have any spare stock of their own to use on EWR.
 

Pinza-C55

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Thank you for your reply , my apologies for mixing up what I'd read about the varsity line having four tracks , I am not sure which in my collection the magazine was, but it was following reopening projects , which the time was what I call phase 1 of EWR ( varsity reopening) it was the magazine who said the section that used the side arch had been four track. That I do remember, but it makes more sense that they were sidings , in any case , there was also a photo online and perhaps earlier in this thread somewhere, ( assuming this thread covered that first section, circa 2015/16, ).
I do wonder if they could use the side arches like that , if to attract more frieight or stopping services, , passing loops , long enough for a freight train or IET , could be built on some areas along the full length , maximising the flexibility of the route .
And although not perfectly straight , this line is a far better value than HS2 , it once finished , and we must have faith it will be , even if there is a small delay beyond Bedford , it still gives people access ( and frieight) to the the great Western mainline, Oxford and it's various connections, the midland mainline is another .
If they do go to Cambridge , you can add the east coast mainline and the line io east Anglia, all without needing to go via a London station
I live in Scotland and we are promised by our MSP our Dumfries - Carinryan and Lockerbie branch will return, the bordersine extended to Carlisle via Hawick, and others .
But I'd argue that as much as I'd love to see those , and the Ireland line down here is vastly more important than dualing the road and destruction of sea side villages.
This ' EWR ' project is if national importance, it's way more useful and important and valuable if built in full , than HS2 , for a fraction of cost.
It still is relatively high speed 100mph , perhaps they can re evaluate that limit to allow 125mph running , and maybe more on the straighter sections .

My apologies if this is more speculation than anything else , I'm not totally familiar with the original route but it does have the key advantage that it doesn't touch London stations , so it in theory frees up capacity elsewhere , it when built in full would be a heck of a waste , for just an hourly two to four car class 196 as has been promised by west midlands trains to loan those types to run services ..they did also of course say the 68 mark3 sets would run on it.
Maybe they'd be allowed to run at 110moh .
Anyway sorry to go off topic .
As for keeping the old bridges , I just think it's kinder to the countryside to blend in the line , even if it has been there in one form or another for well over a century.
I'd always prefer to see those original brick build bridges that seem unique to this line and if I recall , the great central railway.
It just seems better to where possible keep our rail heritage , where possible .

One final thing , I recalled as I wrote this , I downloaded plans for the ongoing railway , and I believe it runs parallel to the midland mainline for a fair distance, as the plans show half a dozen or more culdesac streets, where five or more houses on each are being demolished, to make way for the new trackbed , putting homes that had been further from the the track , right next to the new line .
Anyway thank you for your reply , it does make financial sense so intake your point and the clearance for future electrification, however the expense to demolish and replace a structure may not be needed if they do as they did on the GWR to the West and briefly trains would ' coast ' beneath the unwired bridges . Perhaps that would work for EWR.

I think that normally when a railway bridge is in a cutting and has 3 arches as was typical on the GCR and GNR, the outer abutments don't go down to track level so you couldn't simply scoop the earth out and lay tracks in the outer arches.
 

AlbertBeale

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A passing loop has been installed at Bicester Depot at the western end of the EWR route but no more loops are currently planned between Bicester and Bletchley.

Where at Bicester is Bicester depot? I don't remember seeing this on maps of the line.
 

AlbertBeale

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The ex military installation south of Bicester Village station, on the already open section towards Oxford

Ah - right - thanks. Found it! Is all of that military infrastructure - and all the meandering rail lines - now disused? So is it only the handful of tracks directly alongside the main line which forms the depot?
 

zwk500

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Ah - right - thanks. Found it! Is all of that military infrastructure - and all the meandering rail lines - now disused? So is it only the handful of tracks directly alongside the main line which forms the depot?
The 'depot' in this context is the military installation itself. It was formerly Central Ordnance Depot Bicester before becoming MOD Bicester. The wikipedia article suggests the Bicester Military Railway is still operating but I'm not sure how current that is. Part of the base is scheduled to close in 2028.
 

AlbertBeale

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The 'depot' in this context is the military installation itself. It was formerly Central Ordnance Depot Bicester before becoming MOD Bicester. The wikipedia article suggests the Bicester Military Railway is still operating but I'm not sure how current that is. Part of the base is scheduled to close in 2028.

Thanks - got it! So there isn't to be an EWR depot there - I got the wrong end of the stick...
 

Oxfordblues

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The 'depot' in this context is the military installation itself. It was formerly Central Ordnance Depot Bicester before becoming MOD Bicester. The wikipedia article suggests the Bicester Military Railway is still operating but I'm not sure how current that is. Part of the base is scheduled to close in 2028.
MOD Bicester is very much still active. I today witnessed a train of vans presumably conveying "Government stores" from Kineton (on the branch from Fenny Compton) running-round at Hinksey Reception Lines here in Oxford en-route to Bicester.
 

zwk500

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MOD Bicester is very much still active. I today witnessed a train of vans presumably conveying "Government stores" from Kineton (on the branch from Fenny Compton) running-round at Hinksey Reception Lines here in Oxford en-route to Bicester.
Thanks for the confirmation.
 

12LDA28C

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The ex military installation south of Bicester Village station, on the already open section towards Oxford

Not quite. The military installation still exists but the 'Bicester Depot Goods Loop' and run round loop are just to the West of Bicester Village station and form part of NR infrastructure, the separate single line accessing the MOD centre is at the West end of the loops.
 
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On a closed railway I do wonder how much it actually saves. I can understand that doing it within possessions increases the costs as brick cladding would be time-consuming to put up but you'd have thought on this project they'd have been able to clad the bridge by now so all you've saved is the materials and a handful of brickies.
The civils contractor, Laign O'Rourke, has a dedicated precast concrete production factory ('Explore') at Worksop that needs justifying with a continual flow of fee paying orders, so they have a vested interest in the designs having as much pre-cast concreet as possible. This can be seen on multiple projects.
 

zwk500

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The civils contractor, Laign O'Rourke, has a dedicated precast concrete production factory ('Explore') at Worksop that needs justifying with a continual flow of fee paying orders, so they have a vested interest in the designs having as much pre-cast concreet as possible. This can be seen on multiple projects.
It would only ever be a brick cladding on a concrete bridge.
 

Neen Sollars

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Looks like rapid and substantial progress being made at the EWR/HS2 intersection at Calvert. Looks as if track will soon be laid on the EWR bridge over HS2. Thanks to Micky2Cams on You Tube.

 

swt_passenger

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Looks like rapid and substantial progress being made at the EWR/HS2 intersection at Calvert. Looks as if track will soon be laid on the EWR bridge over HS2. Thanks to Micky2Cams on You Tube.
The earth moving machines passing under it give a much better idea of the size of the EWR over HS2 bridge. And as you say those ballast trains are getting pretty close now.
 

DavidGrain

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Aylesbury Depot will have no involvement with Class 196s, they will be maintained at Bletchley with heavier maintenance carried out at Tyseley. Bletchley drivers will sign the 196s for use on EWR, there has been no change in the intended traction used on the route so I don't know where you've heard any different. Chiltern certainly don't have any spare stock of their own to use on EWR.
I read somewhere possibly on this thread that Chiltern have applied for Access to EWR for driver training on 196s and route learning Oxford to MKC.
According to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wmr-class-196-build-and-implementation.166065/page-91 Post 2712 6 x 196s are not being retro fitted with guard's door panels as they will be sub-leased to work DOO on EWR.
 

12LDA28C

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I read somewhere possibly on this thread that Chiltern have applied for Access to EWR for driver training on 196s and route learning Oxford to MKC.
According to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wmr-class-196-build-and-implementation.166065/page-91 Post 2712 6 x 196s are not being retro fitted with guard's door panels as they will be sub-leased to work DOO on EWR.

Of course Chiltern will be driver training on 196s and route learning EWR - Chiltern will be operating EWR trains with 196s sub-leased from WMT. I don't think that's in any doubt, although I believe the method of operation relating to the trains being DOO or guarded has not yet been finalised.
 

Fazaar1889

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I remember reading that East-West rail won't be electrified? Is this true? If so, why? How much would it cost to electrify the line?
 

swt_passenger

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I remember reading that East-West rail won't be electrified? Is this true? If so, why? How much would it cost to electrify the line?
Yes it’s very true, and it’s been covered in this thread numerous times. I doubt anyone can give a realistic cost estimate, but there’d still be numerous bridges to rebuild in addition to what’s been done. Only those brand new and some fully reconstructed bridges are clear for OHLE, many are not yet clear.

I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they might have to go back and rebuild some structures between Oxford and Bicester for OHLE. Eg Wolvercot tunnel might possibly be an issue.

Does anyone know more about the aims of that stage of the Chiltern Evergreen project?
 

Fazaar1889

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Yes it’s very true, and it’s been covered in this thread numerous times. I doubt anyone can give a realistic cost estimate, but there’d still be numerous bridges to rebuild in addition to what’s been done. Only those brand new and some fully reconstructed bridges are clear for OHLE, many are not yet clear.

I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they might have to go back and rebuild some structures between Oxford and Bicester for OHLE. Eg Wolvercot tunnel might possibly be an issue.

Does anyone know more about the aims of that stage of the Chiltern Evergreen project?
Thanks
 

uglymonkey

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Yes it’s very true, and it’s been covered in this thread numerous times. I doubt anyone can give a realistic cost estimate, but there’d still be numerous bridges to rebuild in addition to what’s been done. Only those brand new and some fully reconstructed bridges are clear for OHLE, many are not yet clear.

I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they might have to go back and rebuild some structures between Oxford and Bicester for OHLE. Eg Wolvercot tunnel might possibly be an issue.

Does anyone know more about the aims of that stage of the Chiltern Evergreen project?
Knowing the "Gold standard " based on the GWML version, it would cost billions and billions and would be unaffordable.
 

richieb1971

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I remember reading that East-West rail won't be electrified? Is this true? If so, why? How much would it cost to electrify the line?
The projection at the beginning was that by the time the line is finished other types of clean traction might be available. Hydrogen and batteries were mentioned. I think it's clear at this point in time those technologies are not going to be fruitful by 1st operation of the line.
 

richieb1971

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At least those 2 technologies would not mean ripping out and replacing all the overhead bridges!
Its non standard though. An AC locomotive or EMU cannot use the line in its current state. If OHLE gets the nod, I can guarantee they would do Oxford to Bletchley first as that stands to be the most fruitful going forward, its a relatively short distance and its new track which means the bridges and obstacles are going to be less. The thing is with EWR its never talking about its entirety, with the focus always being Oxford to MKC.

I would also point out most of this thread will be dissected by moderators and admins shortly as its not related to the progress of the build of the line.
 

uglymonkey

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Good points. Is electric traction/emu built to a different (bigger loading gauge?) apart from the obvious pan or shoes?
 

Andyjs247

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Yes it’s very true, and it’s been covered in this thread numerous times. I doubt anyone can give a realistic cost estimate, but there’d still be numerous bridges to rebuild in addition to what’s been done. Only those brand new and some fully reconstructed bridges are clear for OHLE, many are not yet clear.

I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that they might have to go back and rebuild some structures between Oxford and Bicester for OHLE. Eg Wolvercot tunnel might possibly be an issue.

Does anyone know more about the aims of that stage of the Chiltern Evergreen project?
Structures between Oxford and Bicester won’t need additional clearance for electrification - it was in scope at the time. I can remember a conversation with the late Adrian Shooter and him telling me that the footbridge at Bicester Village station had to be built with extra clearance to allow the OHLE to clear the level crossing. If I remember correctly, as built phase one was designed to W10 or W12+ electrification gauge. New structures are W12 but some existing structures might be W10. It was all delivered on time and on budget.
 
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