Electric cars

[HSTEd]

You can feel the lousy air quality next to major roads in Manchester anyway.....

However, the problem is that electric cars have very low marginal operating costs - so I would expect car mileage to go up on their introduction, not down.

Only way to restrain this is road pricing which is a political impossibility.
So it will just have to be raised entirely by VED.

 

[edwin_m]

In terms of breathable pollution, electric Vehicles do emit a significant amount of particulate matter - from wearing of brakes, tyres, and roads.

The emissions from brakes should be less though, as most braking will be regenerative rather than friction. However the other emissions might increase for the same mileage, as the battery makes an electric vehicle heavier and more damaging than the fossil-fuel equivalent.

 

[ac6000cw]

The emissions from brakes should be less though, as most braking will be regenerative rather than rheostatic. However the other emissions might increase for the same mileage, as the battery makes an electric vehicle heavier and more damaging than the fossil-fuel equivalent.

I assume you meant 'most braking will be electric rather than friction' (as neither form of electric braking produces dust particles, versus the dust from sacrificial brake pads, discs and drums).

 

[AM9]

I assume you meant 'most braking will be electric rather than friction' (as neither form of electric braking produces dust particles, versus the dust from sacrificial brake pads, discs and drums).

My bolds - apart from tyres.

 

[AM9]

The problem is that widespread adoption of electric cars is likely to erase the rationale for Economy 7 as it exists today.
Demand swings between night-time and day-time are actually relatively small compared to the likely charging demand from massive scale adoption of EVs. It is estimated that peak overnight charging demand could potentially reach 50+GWe
It is highly likely that overnight electricity use will actually become peak time use.

Not sure where that figure came from but how many cars does that represent and what (average) proportion of their batteries' total is assumed. Very few cars would completely discharge their batteries every day.

 

[HSTEd]

Not sure where that figure came from but how many cars does that represent and what (average) proportion of their batteries' total is assumed. Very few cars would completely discharge their batteries every day.

Current fuel oil (both petrol and diesel) consumption by cars in the UK is on order 21 million tonnes oil equivalent (from ONS stats)
21 million tonnes of oil equivalent would be a thermal output of roughly 244320GWh/year
Which is a constant thermal power output of 27.9GW(thermal) continuous.
Assuming 33% efficient from a modern ICE - that means constant horsepower output of about 9.2GWs, which if all cars are charging 7 hours a night (at constant rate to be full again! which would require sophisticated control by itself) then we are looking at a charging power of 31.5GWs-equivalent.
Considering batteries are on order of 80% efficient including grid distribution losses, losses in the charger and losses in the pack etc, we would be ~40GWe charging power, even if all cars are charged in a coordinated fashion during the 7 hour period designated by economy 7.

This also doesn't account for what happens when EV owners realise the marginal cost of driving their vehicle is in the pennies per mile. Or charging of buses.

 

[edwin_m]

I assume you meant 'most braking will be electric rather than friction' (as neither form of electric braking produces dust particles, versus the dust from sacrificial brake pads, discs and drums).

Correct thanks - now edited.

 

[Lucan]

Only way to restrain this is road pricing which is a political impossibility. So it will just have to be raised entirely by VED.

A political "impossibility" to travelling salesmen, football fans who attend every away match, people who insist on commuting into London instead of gettting the train, and people who make a hobby of driving half the length of the country to do some shopping (I know some).

Remember that most tax from IC vehicles is raised by the tax on fuel - around 60% of the pump price. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10668970/British-fuel-tax-highest-in-Europe.html. A typical driver on 10,000 miles pa will be paying about £800 pa on fuel tax, but proportional to mileage so there is a dominant element of road pricing already. To raise VED by £800 pa instead of raising it by road pricing is an even bigger political "impossiblility", particularly to the large grey (low mileage) vote and the very numerous two-car households.

The main objection to road pricing will probably be to the supposed "spying", but it will come anyway.