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Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'

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class397tpe

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Will Ealing Broadway benefit from more tph in either direction with the May timetable?
It currently has 8tph Elizabeth Line to Abbey Wood:
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood

and 2tph GWR Didcot Parkway to Paddington.
So 10tph total.

In the May timetable, it will still be 10tph, but all will be Elizabeth Line.
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Shenfield
4tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood

IIRC the GWR Didcot Parkway trains are being rerouted onto the fast line until Slough to allow the Heathrow - Shenfield EL trains.
 
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matt_world2004

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It currently has 8tph Elizabeth Line to Abbey Wood:
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood

and 2tph GWR Didcot Parkway to Paddington.
So 10tph total.

In the May timetable, it will still be 10tph, but all will be Elizabeth Line.
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Shenfield
4tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood

IIRC the GWR Didcot Parkway trains are being rerouted onto the fast line until Slough to allow the Heathrow - Shenfield EL trains
The GwR service uses the slots occupied by the peak Elizabeth line trains. The crossrail website even mentioned that these trains were going to continue to run after the Elizabeth line opened. Even after services ran to terminal 5
 

Starmill

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The GwR service uses the slots occupied by the peak Elizabeth line trains. The crossrail website even mentioned that these trains were going to continue to run after the Elizabeth line opened. Even after services ran to terminal 5
Indeed it did, and we had the discussion many times here about passengers travelling from Ealing Broadway or Hayes & Harlington to Reading maintaining their trains with toilets onboard at 2tph. However...
 

LB2

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It currently has 8tph Elizabeth Line to Abbey Wood:
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood

and 2tph GWR Didcot Parkway to Paddington.
So 10tph total.

In the May timetable, it will still be 10tph, but all will be Elizabeth Line.
2tph Reading - Abbey Wood
2tph Maidenhead - Abbey Wood
2tph Heathrow T5 - Shenfield
4tph Heathrow T4 - Abbey Wood
Really useful, thanks for this info
 

Starmill

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Really useful, thanks for this info
I think that the primary benefit for users of Ealing Broadway will be the through services to Stratford and the new better journey times. 16 minutes to Tottenham Court Road and 22 minutes to Liverpool Street on many trains is going to be rather competitive!
 

Acton1991

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I think that the primary benefit for users of Ealing Broadway will be the through services to Stratford and the new better journey times. 16 minutes to Tottenham Court Road and 22 minutes to Liverpool Street on many trains is going to be rather competitive!
Ealing Broadway is definitely a winner on the western section.
 

Horizon22

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The GwR service uses the slots occupied by the peak Elizabeth line trains. The crossrail website even mentioned that these trains were going to continue to run after the Elizabeth line opened. Even after services ran to terminal 5

There's been lengthy discussion about this in other threads about what should or will happen to the Didcot Parkway semi-fast service. I can see both sides; makes sense to be with one operator throughout and no doubt Maidenhead and Twyford passengers will be happy but it is a much slower connectivity for people in Ealing or Hayes going further west now. But in the grand scheme of things, its probably outweighed by the benefits.

GWR's role and significance has become less and less important on the Relief Lines and since 2018, and this is the one of the last aspects. The only key reasons that Slough, Twyford and Maidenhead aren't managed by TfL is the GWR branch lines and their distance from London

Ealing Broadway is definitely a winner on the western section.

It's by far the busiest station as well as having the only direct Underground connections.

I think that the primary benefit for users of Ealing Broadway will be the through services to Stratford and the new better journey times. 16 minutes to Tottenham Court Road and 22 minutes to Liverpool Street on many trains is going to be rather competitive!

Competitive with what? The Central Line? Lots of have already switched and there's definitely a lot fewer people piling off the back of the train at Ealing to connect into Central London.
 

LB2

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So many confused looking eastbound Heathrow travellers with suitcases at the termination at Paddington high level today. Have they stated the reason for the closure of the tunnels this weekend?
 

Larkhall

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So many confused looking eastbound Heathrow travellers with suitcases at the termination at Paddington high level today. Have they stated the reason for the closure of the tunnels this weekend?
Not sure of the reason either. It did highlight just how much of an impact Elizabeth line has had on tube crowding. Bakerloo Eastbound from Pad was a mess, even Jubilee around Canary Wharf was significantly busier than I've seen it on a weekend in a long while
 

Horizon22

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So many confused looking eastbound Heathrow travellers with suitcases at the termination at Paddington high level today. Have they stated the reason for the closure of the tunnels this weekend?

Pretty sure it's routine maintenance works. Just because it's relatively new, doesn't mean the infrastructure doesn't need maintaining!

People routinely used to arrive with suitcases confused into Paddington and milling about on the concourse pre-Elizabeth line and on Heathrow Express, nothing new.
 

stuu

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So many confused looking eastbound Heathrow travellers with suitcases at the termination at Paddington high level today. Have they stated the reason for the closure of the tunnels this weekend?
Fairly sure it's to do with the software upgrade to enable auto reverse and the final timetable. There's a couple more closures before May and then nothing further in the central tunnel in the 6 month plan.
 

Mojo

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Pretty sure it's routine maintenance works. Just because it's relatively new, doesn't mean the infrastructure doesn't need maintaining!
Although RfLI maintenance staff were also on an RMT strike yesterday!
 

matt_world2004

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Fairly sure it's to do with the software upgrade to enable auto reverse and the final timetable. There's a couple more closures before May and then nothing further in the central tunnel in the 6 month plan.
In the west it is listed as hs2 works resulting in a. Reduced frequency

In the core its list as rfli maintenance

In the east its listed as track maintenance
 

Taunton

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I think that the primary benefit for users of Ealing Broadway will be the through services to Stratford
Unlikely. With only one in five trains from Ealing doing so, such passengers (and there can't be many) are still going to turn up and go on the next train, rather than find out and head for a specific departure, and go to Paddington and change to the train right behind. Doing so they will probably get a better seat through the core as well.

I reckon the oddball Heathrow to Shenfield through runs, being overlaid on the two separate interleaving services, will quickly turn into the most unreliable parts of the operation.
 
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LB2

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People routinely used to arrive with suitcases confused into Paddington and milling about on the concourse pre-Elizabeth line and on Heathrow Express, nothing new.
They didn’t used to sit on a train that’s just terminated wondering why it’s not continuing on into central London as I witnessed yesterday. That’s new.
 

Taunton

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Fairly sure it's to do with the software upgrade to enable auto reverse and the final timetable. There's a couple more closures before May and then nothing further in the central tunnel in the 6 month plan.
So three complete weekend closures in the first half of the year? That's more than 10% of the weekends lost. And what a lack of resilience, that just upgrading the software, for one single point on the system, causes such loss of service. Wasn't auto-reverse meant to be ready for the 2018 opening?

And meanwhile there's then the strikes ...
 

ATrainSpotter

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Seems to be a particular problem on the west section around West Ealing.

I’ve always been rather impressed but I’ve not been further west of Bond Street since through running.

Yes it is busy, but isn’t that the point? And it’s due to get a further frequency increase soon, I think?

What have your experiences been?

I'm a commuter on it, they're talking absolute boll as far as I'm concerned. It worked bar once every single time I've used it. Just the BBC typing rubbish to get clicks as always

I've found it rather good east of Paddington, my only complaints are with the infrastructure rather than the service itself. (Notably that the stations are incredibly bland and soulless, the interchanges to other lines are mostly poor, and the ticket gates at Paddington don't accept gold-card-discounted super-off-peak travelcards for some reason (not an issue I've found at any other ticket gate)).



...but the one time so far I've ventured west of Paddington, the train I was on took about 10 minutes longer than (the already rather generously) timetabled duration just to get to Acton Main Line, as we had to wait for two (!) freight services to pass before we could proceed.

If that's a regular occurrence, it would certainly be frustrating.
"Soulless" that word should be banned, along with your opinion it seems.
 

PGAT

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Hanwell and Acton Main Line get 4 tph, direct trains to Heathrow, the core and Canary Wharf and only have half a million annual passengers. Cry about it.
 

Starmill

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So three complete weekend closures in the first half of the year? That's more than 10% of the weekends lost. And what a lack of resilience, that just upgrading the software, for one single point on the system, causes such loss of service. Wasn't auto-reverse meant to be ready for the 2018 opening?

And meanwhile there's then the strikes ...
You could easily say the same about the phase 5c overhead line works not being completed until the New Year, that cost lots of days of full closures too.

It's a one-off set of work, before the project is actually finished. In no way does it imply a weekend closure rate of 10%.

Of course ironically once the infrastructure project actually reaches close out later this year there will then in future be more scope for full line closures at certain weekends, but on London Underground and other lines where passengers can be diverted to the Elizabeth line.

Hanwell and Acton Main Line get 4 tph, direct trains to Heathrow, the core and Canary Wharf and only have half a million annual passengers. Cry about it.
To be fair, that half a million is for the year 2021-22.
 

matt_world2004

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You could easily say the same about the phase 5c overhead line works not being completed until the New Year, that cost lots of days of full closures too.

It's a one-off set of work, before the project is actually finished. In no way does it imply a weekend closure rate of 10%.

Of course ironically once the infrastructure project actually reaches close out later this year there will then in future be more scope for full line closures at certain weekends, but on London Underground and other lines where passengers can be diverted to the Elizabeth line.


To be fair, that half a million is for the year 2021-22.
Got the wonderful hs2 closures coming up now.
 

bramling

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I'm a commuter on it, they're talking absolute boll as far as I'm concerned. It worked bar once every single time I've used it. Just the BBC typing rubbish to get clicks as always


"Soulless" that word should be banned, along with your opinion it seems.

I don’t mind the decor, though having said that I have a feeling it won’t age too well. I can see how some would find it bland though.

One thing I find hasn’t worked well is the way the stations are laid out dumping people at the extreme ends of the platforms, which unfortunately isn’t something which will ever be able to fixed. There seems to be a big issue with the ends of the trains and platforms becoming crowded.

Whitechapel I find doesn’t work too well either, the original entrance has barely changed and it doesn’t seem big enough for its new role - surprised they didn’t have an entrance at the east end of the Crossrail platforms direct to street, which would have eased this.

On the plus side, Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road are excellent and the positioning of the surface buildings is spot on at these two, it works well.
 

ATrainSpotter

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I don’t mind the decor, though having said that I have a feeling it won’t age too well. I can see how some would find it bland though.

One thing I find hasn’t worked well is the way the stations are laid out dumping people at the extreme ends of the platforms, which unfortunately isn’t something which will ever be able to fixed. There seems to be a big issue with the ends of the trains and platforms becoming crowded.

Whitechapel I find doesn’t work too well either, the original entrance has barely changed and it doesn’t seem big enough for its new role - surprised they didn’t have an entrance at the east end of the Crossrail platforms direct to street, which would have eased this.

On the plus side, Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road are excellent and the positioning of the surface buildings is spot on at these two, it works well.
Yes I agree with these points, especially at Whitechapel, it just feels like an extension to the station rather than the main feature. I suppose they can sort of help the crowding situation if they use the staff on platform (who currently dispatch) to move down the platform (they don't really currently) and maybe even temporarily lock off doors near the entrances/exists for a while to get people in the habit of using the doors in the middle. But the person who I was replying to is probably a boomer who loves everything to be traditional and old fashioned
 

Taunton

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I don’t mind the decor, though having said that I have a feeling it won’t age too well. I can see how some would find it bland though.

One thing I find hasn’t worked well is the way the stations are laid out dumping people at the extreme ends of the platforms, which unfortunately isn’t something which will ever be able to fixed. There seems to be a big issue with the ends of the trains and platforms becoming crowded.

On the plus side, Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road are excellent and the positioning of the surface buildings is spot on at these two, it works well.
There does seem to have been a strategy of looking at what the Victoria Line did in the 1960s, and doing the opposite.

- Individual decoration of stations, some appropriate to their locality, given up for the same colour scheme everywhere.

- Platform entrances at different points deliberately calculated with the expected passenger flow to balance loads up and down the train, given up for entrances in the core at the extreme ends, which now added with people hanging around for their desired through train physically prevents walking through the throng to the less-busy middle.

- Cross platform interchange with other lines, given up for tortuous passages ending up facing where you got off a few minutes ago (Custom House, Abbey Wood, looking at you).

- Minimised walking distances given up for the opposite. Custom House, where the entrance and DLR platforms have the huge Eliz substation put just where the platforms should be, and the latter pushed 1/4 mile to the east, instead of the other way round. I do wonder if the builders were given the drawings in reverse.
 

Starmill

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NR are unlikely to ever allow the line to run to Shenfield or west beyond Paddington due to their maintenance works.
No but some more limited things would probably be possible, such as converting the 0034 London Paddington to Reading to XR and starting it back at Abbey Wood at approximately 2355 on Friday and Saturday nights. They currently don't connect.
 

43096

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NR are unlikely to ever allow the line to run to Shenfield or west beyond Paddington due to their maintenance works.
West beyond Paddington should not be impossible: there has been for many years an overnight local service between Reading and Paddington, running roughly every two hours.
 

Thirteen

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I must be the only person who really likes the Elizabeth Line architecture, it's functional and modern.

Have to say, there are people here who are trying to paint the EL as a failure which is wrong IMO
 
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