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Elizabeth line reliability issues
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Not on the Eliz today but the Underground, where a PA announcement at Westminster was curious, at 1430 it said Eliz suspended between Paddington and Abbey Wood, due to a signal failure, which I haven't seen mentioned, but also that Eliz Paddington to Heathrow/Reading (no mention of the operations break though) had major delays, due to ... Overrunning Engineering Works.
londonmidland
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Not sure how widespread the issue is but there was reports of signal irregularities by drivers. So signals changing aspects irregularly.
Jamiescott1
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Gwr website saying disruption expected until 10am tomorrow.
londonmidland
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It’s nothing to do with the central section. It’s NR infrastructure, west of Paddington. Frankly it’s baffling even the most senior signalling engineers.
matt_world2004
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Open train times signal maps shows the transition point between the gwml and crossrail core as -shut- so I guess that there is now a block on trains transitioning to the mainline. I wonder if a communications error on the interface points between the crossrail core signals and the gwml signals is causing some of the problems . Eg gwml signals erroneously getting signalling data indicating that a Elizabeth line train is entering the gwml
Annetts key
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No, as I said earlier, this is a problem with the Network Rail datalinks (what Network Rail are describing as cables, except it’s not as simple as that).
Nothing to do with any engineering works, at least as far as we know. This is the railway signalling equivalent of a broadband network failing and causing the internet in your home or office to operate erratically.
If either or both of the many sections of duplicated datalink cables had been cut, the technicians would have found the fault by now.
No, manifested itself with this train here:- https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P75254/2023-07-24/detailed#allox_id=0
Which resulted in a wrong direction move to Acton Main line and a controlled evacuation there, it seems to have been an absolute nightmare for everyone involved, at least I’ve been on the mains today with zero issues
Lots of cancellations at Ilford today towards Paddington around 2pm. Coming back from Paddington around 5pm, I decided to use the subway towards the Bakerloo line and used that as well as the Central towards Gants Hill. Had to wait 7 minutes at Oxford Circus for a Hainault train though!
matt_world2004
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It was reported by GwR at 01:45 am Tuesday morning to london buses that there was a signalling failure in the Ladbroke Grove
Not that its the Elizabeth lines fault but maybe splitting it into the 3 separate sections might actually be more beneficial than trying to rely on the GEML, COS and GWML to operate smoothly all the time. Ofc thats no longer possible as this was signed against in the Concession.
I remember quite how smooth Abbey Wood to Paddington, Shenfield to Liverpool Street and then Paddington to Heathrow / Reading itself was. A 4 tph thru running service to and from both Abbey Wood and Shenfield ontop of that would have been in hindsight the move. But heck what do I know.
Just posting what others have confirmed but the actual Tweet from NR
I remember quite how smooth Abbey Wood to Paddington, Shenfield to Liverpool Street and then Paddington to Heathrow / Reading itself was. A 4 tph thru running service to and from both Abbey Wood and Shenfield ontop of that would have been in hindsight the move. But heck what do I know.
Just posting what others have confirmed but the actual Tweet from NR
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That idea would have just never happened. Crossrail got the funding it did precisely because of through running. It was an innovative idea that linked both sides of London and it got funding for doing so.
The money that was spent building it to National Rail standards, linking it to the GEML and GWML etc quite frankly would not be worth it for 4tph. The best you would get without through running would’ve been a new tube line from east to west, and maybe extra trains and money to GWR and GA to run more services.
I also don’t under stand all the calls to ‘cut the Elizabeth Line’. As I see there were very few issues within the core. The PIS was buggy, that’s true, but the trains were running fairly frequently, and said where they were going on them. Getting west was difficult, but I struggle to see how it would be any different if through running didn’t exist. In fact it would probably be worse the other 360 days of the year because GWR wouldn’t have increased services.
Yeh the cut Elizabeth line completely calls are ofc over the top responses from angry commuters who don't always mean that alas. However indeed the thru running as much as its required isn't going to help much if its quite unreliable every other week. However agreed its not even been 3 years yet to judge such success or fail.
Imo most people weren't massively complaining about the change of trains between Paddington to head onto the west. Paddington before the Elizabeth Line from the South East etc was a long mission of National rail and tube just to then begin your journey west. Where as now its 25-30mins. Go further back before even TFL rail operations from Heathrow to Paddington and it was much longer via the Piccadilly if you didn't splurge on Hex.
The change wasn’t bad, but the frequency just wouldn’t have happened without through running, it isn’t even possible with the amount of platforms Paddington has. Unfortunately for Reading to Paddington to get the level of service it has through running is needed.
Indeed true.
Did the intended ETCS level 2 project between Paddington and Reading ever happen? I remember hearing about it in 2019 but still confused as to if it has happened, Only place I fully know of ETCS is Heathrow core. If not then im assuming its TPWS of current for 345s and ATP for the 800s and 387s?
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It didn’t happen, still waiting….
Ah just found out from snooping. So indeed the 345s for example go from CBTC to TPWS when heading to Reading or Just before Heathrow Core of which is then ETCS level 2. I had always assumed since 2019 it was ETCS which was why I was confused with the signal reliance still on the GWML haha.
It was a bit messy - the crossfall of passengers across the main concourse at Paddington was hard to navigate!
But yes unlike Liverpool St that could sustain a fairly high level of service, the platforms are more intensively used at Paddington and HeX and GWR adapted but the long-standing changes were finally put in place this May.
Still awaiting Heathrow Junction to Paddington which is meant to happen this Autumn…
As for today’s service, it looks like it will be much the same as it has been Monday/Tuesday.
Jamiescott1
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My planned non stop gwr train from platform 2 maidenhead at 0633 will now be calling at every intermediate station towards Paddington to collect passengers.
Not sure why as 0643 EL from maidenhead to Paddington is showing as on time.
It looks like passengers have given up today. Im the only person on the marlow shuttle. Usually there's 10-15 others.
Not sure why as 0643 EL from maidenhead to Paddington is showing as on time.
It looks like passengers have given up today. Im the only person on the marlow shuttle. Usually there's 10-15 others.
Probably a hangover - these sort of things appear on things like Signal Maps / Open Train Times all the time.
That should run on time (starts from the sidings) in lieu of the 2tph from/to Reading for the start of service.
Ah makes sense as the 9W16 passed without issue. Peak has started tho and I decided to have a peak at how the shuttle service looks at 10mins per train and its quite a scene. Basically two trains worth of people trying to squeeze into one train.
PsychoMouse
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Word is, it's been fixed.
3rd time lucky.
Snow1964
Established Member
If there was no physical engineering work done, could it be rogue software introduced Monday night, even on one train. Actually doesn't have to be Monday night, could have been done at weekend if the train wasn't used on Monday.
Logically if it starts returning spurious communication then the signalling system is going to get confused, and various fail safe routines deep in core software designed to avoid errors allowing signal to be passed are going to stop it being restarted successfully.
If it was me, I would be going backwards from each train in service when it first happened and be checking what work had been done on each train, checking for any software changes, or any replacement of any communications parts, aerials, wiring plugs etc
It might be fixed now, but if a train is still rogue, then same will happen as soon as it gets used again.
It has nothing to do with any on train software - The issue is on the conventionally signalled GW section, with the links between the equipment on the ground and the signalbox. Post #421 from @Annetts key gives a fantastic explanation of what it really entails.
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