Ember: Electric coach service

[Tayway]

Two new routes have been announced today – the E3X starting tomorrow (7 May) and the E1X next Tuesday (14 May).

News

Find out what's new at Ember

www.ember.to

We'll be launching some additional services over the next couple of weeks. As well as providing express connections from Dundee to Edinburgh and Glasgow, these will connect new stops to the Ember network.

The E3X will only stop at Dundee, Perth City Centre and Glasgow (four a times day Glasgow to/from Perth, with two extending out to Dundee).

The E1X will stop at Dundee, Kinross, Edinburgh and Wallyford P&R to charge, which explains this sighting from a couple of months ago.

Didn't get a registration, but curiously saw an Ember coach at Wallyford Park & Ride this afternoon around 1230.

It appeared to be testing a new electric charger in the bus stops beside the P&R (that I didn't know were there)

Bit out the way for them?

This is only two a day to start with, but I imagine it will be very popular since the 1hr30 journey time from Dundee to Edinburgh is faster than Citylink and Flixbus.

 

[Jordan Adam]

That might be a new candidate for the most pointless route I have ever seen. Who on earth needs to make such a journey? I could understand an E1X between Dundee and Edinburgh, but Wallyford? Wow that’s crazy.

The only vaguely useful run is the 1651 from Edinburgh to Wallyford on the weekend - other than that can't see any reason to use that part of the E1X for anything other than very niche enthusiast loops.

If the coach is going to Wallyford to recharge anyway then surely it makes sense to just run it in service and open up new opportunities even if they are niche. Certainly better than running the coach out of service from the city centre.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

If the coach is going to Wallyford to recharge anyway then surely it makes sense to just run it in service and open up new opportunities even if they are niche. Certainly better than running the coach out of service from the city centre.

I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.

It’s a good route for people from East Lothian heading to Dundee and Kinross. There is a park and ride for people to drop their car off.

You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.

 

[MCR247]

I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.

I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision. It seems rather unlikely that someone just shouted “Wallyford” and the whole company just ran with it without even looking into alternatives.

Maybe there is a closer charger, but is it expected to be available at the times it’s needed? What are the costs of the other chargers, maybe they’re closer but maybe they’d cost double to use and would mean higher ticket prices?

 

[PG]

I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision.

Seconded. Ember do seem to know what they're doing, so no doubt Wallyford makes sense from a business perspective.

 

[Porty]

I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to

I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision. It seems rather unlikely that someone just shouted “Wallyford” and the whole company just ran with it without even looking into alternatives.

Maybe there is a closer charger, but is it expected to be available at the times it’s needed? What are the costs of the other chargers, maybe they’re closer but maybe they’d cost double to use and would mean higher ticket pr

I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.

I live in East Lothian and it will be handy for me. Lots of free parking, easy connections with trains, East Coast buses113, 124, and 2 mins from the X6, and Lothian 44 for pretty much all of the key settlements in East Lothian (excepting Dunbar). Potentially could turn into a key hub for East Lothian public transport. Note that the news on the Ember web page says it's initially 2 services per day. Even with the timetable from 14th May it's useful.

 

[Yorkshireguy]

Ember already run the E10 as a “dead mileage” run between their depot in the north of the city and the city centre. Saying that, I almost had a legitimate use for it the other day for a subsequently aborted trip to Argos. These types of trips are nothing new, and it’s a neat way of covering some of the costs of running out of service that can benefit those who happen to be en-route.

Looking forward to seeing how these services get on - the E3X serving Perth City Centre (vice Broxden) and running fast to both Glasgow and Dundee seems an interesting proposition.

 

[NIT100]

I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.

There are two 150kW CCS Chargers at Wallyford P&R, with (Short) coach bays. I think this is pretty much the only public charger available in Edinburgh for long vehicles. Each has a bay for vehicles up to 12m. There are some other public chargers at or above 150kW in Edinburgh but none would accommodate a coach. Only other option in Edinburgh would be an agreement to use chargers at Lothian's Central Depot, much like Citylink using First Glasgow's Caledonia depot for charging.

AFAIK the stopping E1 and E3 services are eligible for BSOG (Bus Service Operators' Grant); will these new express routes also be eligible?

 

[Stan Drews]

AFAIK the stopping E1 and E3 services are eligible for BSOG (Bus Service Operators' Grant); will these new express routes also be eligible?

No, they will be ineligible.

 

[Dens Lad]

I've never seen these registered with the commissioners. I wonder when they will turn up on the VOSA website.

 

[GusB]

I've never seen these registered with the commissioners. I wonder when they will turn up on the VOSA website.

Try again!

There are 3 services currently registered:

E3 Dundee - Glasgow: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618322/
E1 Dundee - Edinburgh: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618321/
E10 Michelin Scotland - Dundee Greenmarket: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618346/

They have to be registered if there are stops within 15 miles as the crow flies.

 

[Simon75]

No, they will be ineligible.

How come they won't be eligible ?

 

[GusB]

How come they won't be eligible ?

Bus Service Operators' Grant in Scotland has been replaced by a different scheme.

Transport Scotland | Bus Services Operators Grant

Find out how Transport Scotland help to maintain affordable bus routes across the nation using funding initiatives.

www.transport.gov.scot

This funding will cease on 31 March 2022 - and is replaced with the Network Support Grant.

However, going into the subject in any depth would be taking the thread off-topic.

 

[Dens Lad]

Try again!

There are 3 services currently registered:

E3 Dundee - Glasgow: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618322/
E1 Dundee - Edinburgh: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618321/
E10 Michelin Scotland - Dundee Greenmarket: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618346/

They have to be registered if there are stops within 15 miles as the crow flies.

Naw I’ve seen them before on the site but no sure if there were having to get varied as they are new journeys?

 

[Buzby]

Was there ever a E2 service route? I can’t remember one, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t!

 

[Volvodart]

Was there ever a E2 service route? I can’t remember one, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t!

The initial route registered had a registration for each direction.

 

[Stan Drews]

How come they won't be eligible ?

Services that don’t have regular stops don’t meet the criteria.

If you want to read up on the various conditions, this link should help point you in the right direction.

Network Support Grant | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

NSG Eligibility​

The Network Support Grant will be payable to operators who are:

• Operating a local bus service as defined in section 2 of the Transport Act 1985.
• Operating a community transport service under a section 19 or section 22 permit.
• Whose service(s) meet the further requirements detailed in the Bus Service Operators Grant (Scotland) Regulations 2002, as set out in the guidance document.
• Demonstrate they are meeting the Fair Work First principles.

 

[Haribolover06]

Work at the Aberdeen Depot has started over the last few weeks, Ground clearance works and concreting have started, No sign of the electrical substation and chargers yet.

 

[route101]

Have Ember got newer bigger coaches about to enter service?

 

[ClydeCoaster]

Yes, they are currently taking delivery of 14 Yutong GTe14 coaches, 14m long tri-axle.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Yes, they are currently taking delivery of 14 Yutong GTe14 coaches, 14m long tri-axle.

For further expansion or just replacement? Good to see Ember growing either way.

 

[Blindtraveler]

So how many in total is that they're going to have at the end of this latest rollout? And is the fleet fully utilised or is there spare vehicles or slack?

 

[ClydeCoaster]

It's for expansion. They have 25 TCe12s currently, the GTe14s are for a number of new routes across Scotland but (as stated elsewhere in this thread) they have ambition to grow across the UK.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

So how many in total is that they're going to have at the end of this latest rollout? And is the fleet fully utilised or is there spare vehicles or slack?

If my maths is correct. It will give Ember a fleet of 38.

24 currently with the 14 tri axles added.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Yes, they are currently taking delivery of 14 Yutong GTe14 coaches, 14m long tri-axle.

As far as I am aware of all of them have now been delivered. One has been out in service on the E1X as a trial.

 

[Haribolover06]

Work at the Aberdeen Depot has started over the last few weeks, Ground clearance works and concreting have started, No sign of the electrical substation and chargers yet.

View attachment 158780 View attachment 158781

Here is the Site Plan, this was previously going to be powered by Overhead chargers, but this has been amended to use standard chargers. Also, there is a reduction of chargers as the original plan was 10 chargers, Now changed to 6 Chargers, With 4 Standard Parking Bays. Possibly in future additional chargers could be installed if demand is required.
New Layout:
View attachment Ember Aberdeen Layout.jpg

Previously Planned Layout:

Work at the Aberdeen Depot has started over the last few weeks, Ground clearance works and concreting have started, No sign of the electrical substation and chargers yet.

View attachment 158780 View attachment 158781

Progress continues this week, Road Restrictions from 17th June to 5th July for Power Installation. the substation housing has now been installed this week also.

 

[Volvodart]

The new triaxle coaches have started to enter service.

 

[PG]

The latest N&P, 2498, shows that Ember have now been granted a variation of their O licence authorising 14 vehicles from the new operating centre in Aberdeen, taking their total authorisation to 39.

PSV notices and proceedings for Scotland

Notice of bus and coach operator licence applications to, and decisions made by, the Traffic Commissioner for Scotland.

www.gov.uk

PM2025892 SN EMBER CORE LTD
Director(s): PIERCE NICHOLAS FORBES GLENNIE, KEITH MEHDI
BANCROFT BRADBURY, JOEL LARSSON, ROKAS PECIULAITIS
CODEBASE, ARGYLE HOUSE, 3 LADY LAWSON STREET, EDINBURGH,
EH3 9DR
New operating centre: EMBER CORE ELECTRIC CHARGING HUB, INTOWN
ROAD, BRIDGE OF DON, ABERDEEN, AB23 8EZ
New authorisation at this operating centre will be: 14 vehicle(s)
New licence authorisation will be 39 vehicle(s)

N&P: Notices and Proceedings

 

[Haribolover06]

Aberdeen depot looks complete now, only some groundwork to be completed, the chargers look to be on and active, wouldn't surprise me that activity could start next month or end of this month.

 

[Volvodart]

Someone who works there said on another forum that it was end of August or start of September with the extension of the recently introduced additional Edinburgh service to Aberdeen.