EMR Class 170 updates

[43102EMR]

That is indeed correct.
Along with 501-2/504-510/513-14/516-17

As I figured - many thanks for confirming!

 

[TheBigD]

170638 allocated to 1051 Liverpool-Norwich and 1656 Norwich-Manchester return.

Another visit to Liverpool and, assuming it isn't swapped out at Nottingham, its first visit with EMR to Norwich.

 

[newtownmgr]

That is indeed correct.
Along with 501-2/504-510/513-14/516-17

512 is still with WMR. I drove it yesterday & will be again in about 25 mins.

 

[Rick1984]

Could always send the 3 car to Norwich rather than 2 car once the 5 car splits at Notts.

That would be better. I think it was 3 car 170s back in Central Trains days? Can't remember what they were like for loading

 

[Liam L]

512 is still with WMR. I drove it yesterday & will be again in about 25 mins.

Thought I missed one, thanks

 

[Speedbird96]

That would be better. I think it was 3 car 170s back in Central Trains days? Can't remember what they were like for loading

Towards the tail end of Central Trains franchise in 2007, Norwich - Liverpool was one of the 4 Citylink services that would either see Class 158s and/or Class 170s diagrammed , and could have been either 2 or 3 cars.
3-cars actually did well for capacity but even before EMT took over, 2-cars was woefully inadequate and any delay or cancellation would have exacerbated it even further (Central Trains were not well known for their reliability), there have been occasions where passengers had to be left behind because the 2-car Class 170s could not cope with the loadings from Nottingham to Liverpool and even from Norwich.

 

[43074]

Towards the tail end of Central Trains franchise in 2007, Norwich - Liverpool was one of the 4 Citylink services that would either see Class 158s and/or Class 170s diagrammed , and could have been either 2 or 3 cars.
3-cars actually did well for capacity but even before EMT took over, 2-cars was woefully inadequate and any delay or cancellation would have exacerbated it even further (Central Trains were not well known for their reliability), there have been occasions where passengers had to be left behind because the 2-car Class 170s could not cope with the loadings from Nottingham to Liverpool and even from Norwich.

Not helped by the passenger counts the East Midlands Trains fleet plan was based on under counting many Norwich to Liverpool services, which meant 2 car 158s returned to the route whilst the 8 centre cars went to Northern in exchange for 2 153s. Another farce overseen by DfT, old habits die hard...

 

[childwallblues]

Towards the tail end of Central Trains franchise in 2007, Norwich - Liverpool was one of the 4 Citylink services that would either see Class 158s and/or Class 170s diagrammed , and could have been either 2 or 3 cars.
3-cars actually did well for capacity but even before EMT took over, 2-cars was woefully inadequate and any delay or cancellation would have exacerbated it even further (Central Trains were not well known for their reliability), there have been occasions where passengers had to be left behind because the 2-car Class 170s could not cope with the loadings from Nottingham to Liverpool and even from Norwich.

I worked at Warrington Central and 170501-23 started to appear on Liverpool-Norwich in March 2000. The first that I noted were 170504/07 on 21/03/2000. Yhe following month 170630-39 came on to the route. By August 2000 I had noted all 33 units on the CLC.

 

[Kite159]

170638 allocated to 1051 Liverpool-Norwich and 1656 Norwich-Manchester return.

Another visit to Liverpool and, assuming it isn't swapped out at Nottingham, its first visit with EMR to Norwich.

And it made it to Norwich.

Sorry for the rubbish photo, it was running late and I had to dash to get the London train.

For a temporary loan it certainly has a lot of EMR related stickers inside.

 

[Andy Pacer]

For a temporary loan it certainly has a lot of EMR related stickers inside.

I guess it's deemed worth it as its with us for a few months over the summer period.

 

[TheBigD]

Yesterday, 19/08 the 0955 Norwich to Nottingham was formed of 2 x 158, + 170530.
As a previously posted by @LowLevel that 170s aren't currently allowed to operate in service in multiple with a 156/8 with EMR, have the regulations changed, or was the 170 locked out of use?

 

[LowLevel]

Yesterday, 19/08 the 0955 Norwich to Nottingham was formed of 2 x 158, + 170530.
As a previously posted by @LowLevel that 170s aren't currently allowed to operate in service in multiple with a 156/8 with EMR, have the regulations changed, or was the 170 locked out of use?

The 170 was misbehaving and being tripped back having failed to start.

 

[Failed Unit]

The 170 was misbehaving and being tripped back having failed to start.

If they are coupled together which half is locked out. The front / rear or always the 170.

I know a few 170 / 15x are scheduled in Lincolnshire but normally at times to avoid an ECS rather then because you need the seats.

 

[LowLevel]

If they are coupled together which half is locked out. The front / rear or always the 170.

I know a few 170 / 15x are scheduled in Lincolnshire but normally at times to avoid an ECS rather then because you need the seats.

You lock out the rear set, generally.

 

[TheBigD]

The service would have reversed at Ely. The 170 leading from Norwich and then trailing from Ely.

 

[Failed Unit]

You lock out the rear set, generally.

Thanks. That makes sense as at least you know you will always be on the platform. Stations like Market Rasen fouling the crossing are not good. But not see any 4 car stop signs (the 4 cars in the Christmas market blocked the crossing but not done the 2x booked combo). Namely the first Saturday morning Grimsby - Leicester service (spitting at Lincoln) and last service on Sunday from cleethorpes.

 

[LowLevel]

The service would have reversed at Ely. The 170 leading from Norwich and then trailing from Ely.

I think it was sandwiched so there was a 158 at either end.

 

[TheBigD]

I think it was sandwiched so there was a 158 at either end.

It certainly wasn't when it passed March.
Whether it was remarshalled at Ely I don't know, I doubt it, but the service was delayed there quite a while.

 

[Failed Unit]

It certainly wasn't when it passed March.
Whether it was remarshalled at Ely I don't know, I doubt it, but the service was delayed there quite a while.

I guess all the normal stations after Ely can take 6 coaches anyway so if the front was locked out it wouldn’t matter.

 

[LowLevel]

It certainly wasn't when it passed March.
Whether it was remarshalled at Ely I don't know, I doubt it, but the service was delayed there quite a while.

Quite happy to take your word for it - the report I saw had it as a sandwich but if you saw it yourself then it must have been wrong

The story I heard was it was on the blocks at Norwich on top of something else, they couldn't start it so they just coupled everything together with the inbound arrival on top and they took everything there with them.

Must have been inaccurate!

 

[TheBigD]

Quite happy to take your word for it - the report I saw had it as a sandwich but if you saw it yourself then it must have been wrong

The story I heard was it was on the blocks at Norwich on top of something else, they couldn't start it so they just coupled everything together with the inbound arrival on top and they took everything there with them.

Must have been inaccurate!

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Not sure if the link works if you're not a group member but photo of the whole ensemble leaving March.

I was wrong, it was remarshalled at Ely.
Left Norwich with it sandwiched between 2 158s, and one of the 158s ran round at Ely before continuing to Nottingham. Seems a strange maneuver but I'm guessing a fault of some description with the 158 that would have lead from Ely.

 

[Furton]

170638 allocated to 1051 Liverpool-Norwich and 1656 Norwich-Manchester return.

Another visit to Liverpool and, assuming it isn't swapped out at Nottingham, its first visit with EMR to Norwich.

Currently sat on the 170 from Parkway to Oxford Rd. Interior is very tatty but the AC is wonderful compared to the 158. First class seats declassified also helps.

 

[43102EMR]

Currently sat on the 170 from Parkway to Oxford Rd. Interior is very tatty but the AC is wonderful compared to the 158. First class seats declassified also helps.

Appears to be a set swap at Nottingham for a 158 on to Norwich - usually the other way around!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Currently sat on the 170 from Parkway to Oxford Rd. Interior is very tatty but the AC is wonderful compared to the 158. First class seats declassified also helps.

That was an ex Scotrail 170/4. Horribly tatty inside as you said, but there are indeed a few little perks such as the 2+1 seating at the end.

 

[STINT47]

The ex Scotish units are the reason why a refurbishment really cannot be cancelled.

Some of the 170s such as those from WMT are not that bad (although far from great),but the Scotish units are really tatty and heavenknows what they will look like if no refurbishment is done.

When they first arrived they had posters saying a refurb was on the way so people at EMR clearly understood the poor impression they give and the need to refurbish them

A light refresh with new carpets, seat cushions and work to repair/repaint internally fixtures would-be a start. It's not asking for the earth when you consider that Avanti did this on their voyagers and they're off leave soon.

 

[43102EMR]

The ex Scotish units are the reason why a refurbishment really cannot be cancelled.

Some of the 170s such as those from WMT are not that bad (although far from great),but the Scotish units are really tatty and heavenknows what they will look like if no refurbishment is done.

When they first arrived they had posters saying a refurb was on the way so people at EMR clearly understood the poor impression they give and the need to refurbish them

A light refresh with new carpets, seat cushions and work to repair/repaint internally fixtures would-be a start. It's not asking for the earth when you consider that Avanti did this on their voyagers and they're off leave soon.

Simple really - the DfT let them do it…

 

[LowLevel]

The ex Scotish units are the reason why a refurbishment really cannot be cancelled.

Some of the 170s such as those from WMT are not that bad (although far from great),but the Scotish units are really tatty and heavenknows what they will look like if no refurbishment is done.

When they first arrived they had posters saying a refurb was on the way so people at EMR clearly understood the poor impression they give and the need to refurbish them

A light refresh with new carpets, seat cushions and work to repair/repaint internally fixtures would-be a start. It's not asking for the earth when you consider that Avanti did this on their voyagers and they're off leave soon.

The refurbishment won't be cancelled - however I'd not be surprised if it was scaled down to no longer have the Intercity standard new seats etc.

Having the trains available to send away is the main problem at the minute. The fleet needs to be larger to support some being out of traffic.

 

[liamf656]

Just seen on Facebook that 171202 and 171402 have been reformed back into 3 car units. They should be moving north in the next few weeks although I'm not yet sure on whether they'll have the couplings changed before they enter service or if they'll press them into traffic with a no coupling rule, although I'd imagine it to be the former as it's easier

 

[fgwrich]

Just seen on Facebook that 171202 and 171402 have been reformed back into 3 car units. They should be moving north in the next few weeks although I'm not yet sure on whether they'll have the couplings changed before they enter service or if they'll press them into traffic with a no coupling rule, although I'd imagine it to be the former as it's easier

Snap:

Southern class 171 transfer to EMR

It’s been reported on Facebook that 2 class 171s are now stopped at Selhurst to be reformed back into 3 carriage units ready for a move to EMR. The first 2 units are 171202 & 171402. Apparently the /7 and /8 are staying with Southern for the time being. Obviously although they ran different...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[liamf656]

Snap:

Southern class 171 transfer to EMR

It’s been reported on Facebook that 2 class 171s are now stopped at Selhurst to be reformed back into 3 carriage units ready for a move to EMR. The first 2 units are 171202 & 171402. Apparently the /7 and /8 are staying with Southern for the time being. Obviously although they ran different...

www.railforums.co.uk

And I was wondering why there was no conversation on it here