EMR December 2020 Timetable Consultation

[Ianno87]

Doesn't help if you value through London journeys. Still I suppose it might increase the use of East Midlands Parkway if people from Langley Mill etc travel there instead.

Every chance they probably do already....

 

[ashkeba]

It's all done to create the maximum benefit for the majority of Passengers, and not slowing everything done for the few.

What's the big benefit to the majority that's worth making airport journeys require two changes or reversals?

But this isn't an ideal world

Well, of course not.

 

[cle]

It’s a shame that a third slow path couldn’t be carved out to connect Luton/AP and Bedford with Leicester at a minimum, but either Derby or Nottingham too ideally.

Might it ever be possible when all the platform and line works are done, and everything wrapped at Leicester and Derby too?

Another solution might be splitting or cutting one of the hourly Corby services (a second tph could be a shuttle connecting), but of course wires are only getting to Market Harborough for now which isn’t any use.

 

[Qwerty133]

Every chance they probably do already....

Unless Langley Mill is a settlement of a dozen people they are not travelling to East Midlands Parkway at present...

 

[cactustwirly]

What's the big benefit to the majority that's worth making airport journeys require two changes or reversals?


Well, of course not.

Because the vast majority of people are traveling to London, and passengers from Nottingham get a more consistent and faster service than today

 

[pt_mad]

So will the intercity services still call at Market Harborough and/or Wellingborough?

And to clarify going between Bedford and the north passengers would change at Kettering?

 

[cactustwirly]

So will the intercity services still call at Market Harborough and/or Wellingborough?

And to clarify going between Bedford and the north passengers would change at Kettering?

Market Harborough and Kettering
So it's only Wellingborough and Bedford that loose out on the IC services

 

[222001]

A new version of the document has now been uploaded, with all the mistakes / issues removed. Apparently it's not supposed to be public until tomorrow.
https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/december2020

 

[pt_mad]

Market Harborough and Kettering
So it's only Wellingborough and Bedford that loose out on the IC services

So is it Kettering where you change going from Bedford to the north?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So is it Kettering where you change going from Bedford to the north?

Yes. And Leicester if you want Sheffield, which is a right faff.

 

[cactustwirly]

Yes. And Leicester if you want Sheffield, which is a right faff.

Not really, it's a same platform interchange, which is the same as now.

 

[Merle Haggard]

So is it Kettering where you change going from Bedford to the north?

Presumably, having put so much effort into reinstating the up goods from Kettering to Sharnbrook and the up slow platform at Wellingboro', the Corby trains will be S/L at Kettering.
In the 9 minute connection passengers will have to cross from the slow to fast line platform via the footbridge.
If the Corby is delayed there is no certainty that the forward connection will be as well - they're on different lines. Wonder how it will work in reality? And I'll resist the temptation to be sarcastic about the likelihood of that question being asked, on the evidence of a nearby franchise with common ownership...

 

[A0wen]

So will the intercity services still call at Market Harborough and/or Wellingborough?

And to clarify going between Bedford and the north passengers would change at Kettering?

Yes to Market Harborough - it will be a stop on the Nottingham services. No to Wellingborough which will be getting the 2 tph Corby service.

Basically for Luton, Bedford and Wellingborough it will mean a change at Kettering for Leicester and Nottingham and a further change at Leicester for Derby and Sheffield.

There's no real justification for stopping more at Luton, Bedford or Wellingborough (the former two have an extensive Thameslink service). I think the bigger problem will be the 2 changes to get to Sheffield and Derby, though depending on the timings that *could* be addressed by stopping 1 Sheffield at Kettering instead of 1 Nottingham.

The basic outline is exactly what I've been saying will happen for a while - despite the many protestations to the contrary, Luton and Bedford really don't warrant longer distance services stopping there. Of the two, Luton and at that Airport Parkway makes a better case.

 

[A0wen]

Market Harborough and Kettering
So it's only Wellingborough and Bedford that loose out on the IC services

Wellingborough, Bedford and Luton.

 

[Killingworth]

Must be 25 years ago when one day I found the best way to get back from Bedford to Chesterfield was to go south to Luton or St Pancras to come north!

That fast train runs within 200 yards of my home and half a mile from the nearest station, but all trains can't stop at all stations or they'd take for ever for everyone.

 

[Class 170101]

Doesn't seem to be any reference to services to / from Leeds or HST services between Nottingham and Sheffield in the revised document that I can see.

 

[swt_passenger]

Doesn't seem to be any reference to services to / from Leeds or HST services between Nottingham and Sheffield in the revised document that I can see.

Leeds wasn’t explicitly mentioned in the original either, as we discussed a few days ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

...I think the bigger problem will be the 2 changes to get to Sheffield and Derby, though depending on the timings that *could* be addressed by stopping 1 Sheffield at Kettering instead of 1 Nottingham...

However, the consultation FAQs explains just why they aren't doing that:
“Q. Is it possible to stop one of the Sheffield services at Kettering, rather than both Nottingham services?
A. Unfortunately not. The Sheffield and Nottingham trains have to leave London St Pancras International quite close together and therefore stopping a Sheffield service at Kettering would add significant journey time, as the Nottingham service would have to wait behind it.”

 

[cactustwirly]

However, the consultation FAQs explains just why they aren't doing that:
“Q. Is it possible to stop one of the Sheffield services at Kettering, rather than both Nottingham services?
A. Unfortunately not. The Sheffield and Nottingham trains have to leave London St Pancras International quite close together and therefore stopping a Sheffield service at Kettering would add significant journey time, as the Nottingham service would have to wait behind it.”

Yeah blame Thameslink for that one

 

[43074]

Yeah blame Thameslink for that one

Not really, there are 2 pairs of 125mph paths which can fit out of St Pancras every 15 minutes so it would be a case of moving one or other around the clockface and adjusting the Electric service to fit. It may well be that the timetable wouldn't work somewhere else if they did that, it's ultimately a compromise.

 

[cactustwirly]

Not really, there are 2 pairs of 125mph paths which can fit out of St Pancras every 15 minutes so it would be a case of moving one or other around the clockface and adjusting the Electric service to fit. It may well be that the timetable wouldn't work somewhere else if they did that, it's ultimately a compromise.

Well they used to be every 15 minutes, but when the Thameslink timetable was recast, when the Nottingham got moved to 3 minutes after the Sheffield!

 

[Ianno87]

Well they used to be every 15 minutes, but when the Thameslink timetable was recast, when the Nottingham got moved to 3 minutes after the Sheffield!

Sounds like this is actually restoring something more resembling the pre-May 18 pattern, two paths flighted every half hour, with one path on the opposing quarter-hour.

 

[Class 170101]

Leeds wasn’t explicitly mentioned in the original either, as we discussed a few days ago.

There was a pink Leeds written in the previously published document as a title with nothing underneath it and now nothing at all unless I've missed it.

 

[swt_passenger]

There was a pink Leeds written in the previously published document as a title with nothing underneath it and now nothing at all unless I've missed it.

I didn’t think anyone would count that sort of obvious error as an actual reference to Leeds...

 

[Merle Haggard]

A new version of the document has now been uploaded, with all the mistakes / issues removed. Apparently it's not supposed to be public until tomorrow.
https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/december2020

Thanks for the link, useful.
I see that a comparison is made between present and proposed journey times for the services to St Pancras from Kettering and stations Northwards, but not for stations to be served by the electrics. I think I can guess why.
The map implies that, in the standard service, all trains that call at Harboro will also call at Kettering and journey time to St Pancras from Harboro is 59 mins, from Kettering, 55 mins. So that's 4 minutes for 10 m 72 ch and station call. Wow.

 

[Class 170101]

I didn’t think anyone would count that sort of obvious error as an actual reference to Leeds...

It’s confirmed:
I asked EMR whether they planned to keep Leeds services they said:
It is a franchise requirement when they were awarded it.

Perhaps this?

 

[Ianno87]

Thanks for the link, useful.
I see that a comparison is made between present and proposed journey times for the services to St Pancras from Kettering and stations Northwards, but not for stations to be served by the electrics. I think I can guess why.
The map implies that, in the standard service, all trains that call at Harboro will also call at Kettering and journey time to St Pancras from Harboro is 59 mins, from Kettering, 55 mins. So that's 4 minutes for 10 m 72 ch and station call. Wow.

Well, I'd presume the Kettering time is the average of 2 x fast and 2 x slow journey times (given that today is c55 mins with 3 stops)...

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps this?

No that’s a separate discussion between that member and EMR, it’s not referenced in the consultation.

 

[Class 170101]

No that’s a separate discussion between that member and EMR, it’s not referenced in the consultation.

I'm suggesting the Leeds note would have prompted the question and answer received and that is what should be in the consultation in some form?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Well, I'd presume the Kettering time is the average of 2 x fast and 2 x slow journey times (given that today is c55 mins with 3 stops)...

Yes, I take the point, but the Kettering figures are at the beginning of the section devoted to the 'intercity' service and map.
I can't find journey times for the 'Electrics' but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.