EU to ban Powerful Vacuum Cleaners

[21C101]

I thought this was a very late April Fool. A bit like the lightbulbs they wanted to get rid of.

That wasn't an april fool either but it was soon discovered that there were ways round it as the Telegraph Explained: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/9498092/Retailers-avoid-ban-on-traditional-light-bulbs.html You can still buy 150W incandescent light bulbs from mainstream shops:http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/150w-rough-service-gls-bulbs-bc-pearl-rs-a30kq,

And if you are really crazy there are these 300W and 500W beauties
http://www.lampwise.co.uk/light-bulbs/specialist-household/ges-gls-300w-500w.html

If you are totally mad, the piece de resistance, a 1Kilowatt (1000W) lightbulb http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/gls-1000w-ges-clear/p4396/

An explanation of what a rough service light bulb is here: http://www.lamps-on-line.com/lighti...gh-service-lightbulbs-V-household-lightbulbs/
According to the Telegraph, the governments National Measurement Office said in response “Consumers should ensure that they do not use special purpose/rough service lamps for household room illumination as they are declared by the manufacturer as unsuitable for this purpose. Consideration should be given to the terms and conditions of any household insurance policy if such lamps are used for illuminating your house.”

Quite how using a higher quality lightbulb that has a "'rough service' coating for added safety" to quote Maplin will invalidate your house insurance I don't know but I felt obliged to mention it (although if you were daft enough to buy a higher wattage bulb than 150W which is what the largest "domestic" bulb was and overload the lighting circuit and set your house on fire, or bought a large number of 150W lightbulbs and did the same, then I doubt your insurance would pay out).

 

[Johnuk123]

I thought this was a very late April Fool. A bit like the lightbulbs they wanted to get rid of.

If only it was an April Fools joke.

 

[radamfi]

If you have a single market, you should have regulations that apply across the area. Otherwise one part of the area will have an unfair advantage over another. Also, having harmonised regulations means less complicated compliance procedures for businesses that trade across borders.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://www.thegwpf.org/china-india-building-4-coal-power-plants-week/

China & India Are Building 4 New Coal Power Plants – Every Week

If we got rid of every vacuum cleaner in the UK it would make so little difference as to be completely insignificant.

 

[radamfi]

Saving electricity isn't just good for the environment. It means that Europe is closer to being self-reliant in energy, without having to rely so much on Russia and the Middle East.

 

[47802]

I always switch the vac on to warm the house up not!

The usual anti EU rants are pathetic, at the end of the day isn't it not about improving energy efficiency as with the light bulbs, and we would probably have something similar in the UK even if were weren't in the EU.

I herd various rants about the light bulb thing but the new LED's are great, if we don't kick the manufacturers into improving efficiency then the pace is likely to be a lot slower, and of course we have unlimited supplies of energy, and pollution isn't an issue.

 

[Trog]

(although if you were daft enough to buy a higher wattage bulb than 150W which is what the largest "domestic" bulb was and overload the lighting circuit and set your house on fire, or bought a large number of 150W lightbulbs and did the same, then I doubt your insurance would pay out).

That is why you have a fuse box, the fuse/circuit breaker turning the whole thing off before you can overload the wires. Lighting is usually fused at 6 amps these days with separate circuits for upstairs and down, which would allow you about 10x 150W bulbs on each level. An older house with a single lighting circuit might only be able to support a rather dim 10x 150W bulbs on both levels combined.

 

[Johnuk123]

I always switch the vac on to warm the house up not!

The usual anti EU rants are pathetic, at the end of the day isn't it not about improving energy efficiency as with the light bulbs, and we would probably have something similar in the UK even if were weren't in the EU.

I herd various rants about the light bulb thing but the new LED's are great, if we don't kick the manufacturers into improving efficiency then the pace is likely to be a lot slower, and of course we have unlimited supplies of energy, and pollution isn't an issue.

I actually fell for that one and bought loads about 2 years ago.

I have now replaced every one with the old style as the new ones are far to slow to light up and simply don't light the rooms like proper bulbs.

As you can still get proper bulbs almost everywhere I have stocked up and will never need to buy a bulb that's similar to a match again.

 

[jon0844]

You didn't buy LED bulbs then.

 

[Johnuk123]

You didn't buy LED bulbs then.

You may well be right, I bought what were called energy efficient bulbs but I won't be buying LED as I have a lifetimes supply now of original bulbs that are my choice.

 

[SS4]

I must have a serious vision defect that my optician has also been unable to spot because I can't tell the difference between the incandescent bulbs and the energy saving ones. I have been able to get a 5500K bulb to provide a warm white. LED bulbs look interesting too.

Just in case any of you were wondering this is the side our wonderfully neutral media (/s) failed to state

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/tidying-up-the-facts-on-eu-vacuum-cleaner-rules/

Without reiterating all the points we made on our blog a year ago (we sometimes like a punning headline ourselves), here are ten key facts on the new EU rules coming into force on 1 September to make vacuum cleaners work better and waste less energy.

1) There is NO ban on vacuum cleaners that suck powerfully. The ban is on cleaners that use too much energy and/or are not energy efficient. The new rules include requirements for performance in picking up dust, on noise, on the amount of dust escaping from the cleaner (important for asthma sufferers) and on the durability of components.

2) It is perfectly possible to have high-performance vacuum cleaners which are energy efficient. As “Which?” magazine (see below) itself makes clear, some of the models on its best buy list already conform to the new rules.

3) Obviously more energy efficient appliances are good for consumers, who will have reduced energy bills and in this case quieter vacuum cleaners into the bargain. The new labelling system will help them make informed choices.

4) The new rules are based on a tried and tested approach which has already delivered results for all sorts of other appliances and made life easier and cheaper for consumers. A similar labelling system was introduced for fridges and freezers 20 years ago. They now use only one-third of the electricity they did then. Two years after regulations were introduced for television sets, 70% of those on the market were in the top class for energy efficiency.

5) Markets alone won’t make improvements in energy efficiency happen, at least not quickly. Innovation often needs to be given a push. Business wants certainty over the rules and to be sure that competitors will not be able to steal a short-term advantage by continuing to produce and market inefficient appliances.

6) The above might be one reason why most vacuum cleaner manufacturers supported the new rules when the industry was (extensively) consulted. The UK government also supported the rules- Member States could have blocked them had they wished

7) Lower household energy use also means lower emissions, helps tackle climate change and is a contribution to Europe being less dependent on energy imported from Russia and the Middle East.

8) As we pointed out last year, studies have shown that more efficient vacuum cleaners would save 19 terawatt hours (TWh) of energy annually in the EU by 2020. As a comparison, that amount of energy would keep the London Underground running for up to twenty years.

9) The system for vacuum cleaners will not be “self-regulating” as “Which?” claimed and other media repeated: national authorities will check that labels correspond to reality.

10) Given that the EU labelling system is not rating overall performance but only one aspect of it – energy efficiency – it is not surprising that EU ratings do not give the same results as “Which?’s” more general ones.

I have put part of number 6 in bold because it is a very interesting point that was completely ignored as far as I am aware and worth reiterating: Whitehall could have blocked this but decided not to instead letting the EU take the full blame.

edit: Perhaps OP would like to change the title to the more accurate "UK government agrees to ban Inefficient Vacuum Cleaners"?

 

[hassaanhc]

That is why you have a fuse box, the fuse/circuit breaker turning the whole thing off before you can overload the wires. Lighting is usually fused at 6 amps these days with separate circuits for upstairs and down, which would allow you about 10x 150W bulbs on each level. An older house with a single lighting circuit might only be able to support a rather dim 10x 150W bulbs on both levels combined.

Assuming it works properly! A few years ago we narrowly avoided a fire in our flat after we found our fuse box smouldering. What had happened was the timer/switch for the 3kW immersion heater (for the hot water) had broken and left it on 24/7 which overloaded the supply. A week before that we'd found its 15A fuse blown so we swapped it around with another 15A one that was from a circuit we didn't use. This second time it was overloaded and didn't blow. Soon replaced by a modern circuit breaker one by the housing association.

I actually fell for that one and bought loads about 2 years ago.

I have now replaced every one with the old style as the new ones are far to slow to light up and simply don't light the rooms like proper bulbs.

As you can still get proper bulbs almost everywhere I have stocked up and will never need to buy a bulb that's similar to a match again.

The "proper" bulbs now are slightly different. They are a halogen bulb, where the filament is contained within glass filled with a halogen gas, which makes them more efficient. This is then placed in a traditional shape glass and with the correct fitting.
I have a dislike for the CFLs as I hate the warm white colour, and I find them quite dim for some reason, even the 20W ones at 1600 lumens :?. Ok you could find cool white ones, but I much prefer a standard fluorescent tube in that case with their higher lumen rating (in our kitchen the housing association put a 5ft tube at 4800 lumens and leads to a nice bright kitchen :P).

 

[21C101]

The "proper" bulbs now are slightly different. They are a halogen bulb, where the filament is contained within glass filled with a halogen gas, which makes them more efficient. This is then placed in a traditional shape glass and with the correct fitting.

The rough service ones are not, they are the old fashioned ones.

 

[hassaanhc]

The rough service ones are not, they are the old fashioned ones.

True, I had in my mind those from Tesco and the like.

 

[21C101]

The UK government also supported the rules- Member States could have blocked them had they wished[/B].

edit: Perhaps OP would like to change the title to the more accurate "UK government agrees to ban Inefficient Vacuum Cleaners"?

That the current bunch of wind turbine obsessed quislings agreed is no surprise to me.

The problem is that when they are removed and replaced with some better peoples representatives in Parliament, parliament cannot repeal this legislation, because it is EU not UK legislation, other than by leaving the EU.

As I said, I would rather be ruled by a bad UK government that can be removed by the British people than a good EU government that cannot. For much the same reason I would probably vote Yes in the Scottish referendum if I lived there, even though I can't stand Salmond.

Also anyone who thinks a 900 watt vacuum cleaner (the max in 2017) can work as well as my current 2400Watt vacuum cleaner dosent appear to know much about the laws of physics

Luckily industrial and wet/dry vacuum cleaners are exempt so I'm sure it will be got round in the same way that rough service light bulbs have got round the lighting regs (I speak as someone with a house full of LEDS - I chose that, it is being treated like a child forced down a path by Euronanny that angers me)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

True, I had in my mind those from Tesco and the like.

I think those halogen capsule inside ones which are a little more efficient than a normal GLS will be banned too in a couple of years or so at the next tightening.

If they ever ban rough service bulbs, I'm sure someone will start producing 150w "oven" bulbs

 

[SS4]

That the current bunch of wind turbine obsessed quislings agreed is no surprise to me.

Exactly what is traitorous about Whitehall agreeing with Brussels?* Are we going to temporarily reinstate the death penalty to shoot Cameron after the next election?

* This is a rhetorical question, the answer being "because they disagree with my opinion"

 

[Trog]

Assuming it works properly! A few years ago we narrowly avoided a fire in our flat after we found our fuse box smouldering. What had happened was the timer/switch for the 3kW immersion heater (for the hot water) had broken and left it on 24/7 which overloaded the supply. A week before that we'd found its 15A fuse blown so we swapped it around with another 15A one that was from a circuit we didn't use. This second time it was overloaded and didn't blow. Soon replaced by a modern circuit breaker one by the housing association.

Your fuse was working properly as 3kW at mains voltage is 12.5 to 13 Amps.

One thing about wire fuses is that they were designed to take a short duration overload, so if you used just a little over their rated load they would take some time warming up before the wire melted. This was to help prevent the fuses blowing due to sudden pulses of demand, like a bulb shorting out or a sticky fridge motor starting. This was safe because the house wiring could also take a temporary overload before it got hot enough to start affecting its insulation etc.

 

[21C101]

Your fuse was working properly as 3kW at mains voltage is 12.5 to 13 Amps.

One thing about wire fuses is that they were designed to take a short duration overload, so if you used just a little over their rated load they would take some time warming up before the wire melted. This was to help prevent the fuses blowing due to sudden pulses of demand, like a bulb shorting out or a sticky fridge motor starting. This was safe because the house wiring could also take a temporary overload before it got hot enough to start affecting its insulation etc.

Also dont forget that the wiring was designed for 240v a.c. not 230v a.c. which has a higher current (not a great deal mind you)

Fuses were often able to run at up to double their intended value for a while before blowing which could see serious heat generated. Also the main fire risk is a high resistance fault in the circuit which would not blow fuse or circuit breaker and would result in the high resistance area overheating and catching fire when under high current load.

Also in most cases lighting circuit wiring has not been designed to have six to nine inches of insulation dumped on top of it and around it in the loft by government sponsored cowboys, preventing heat dissipation.

 

[jon0844]

Another good reason to get LED lighting. I was never that happy with the insulation blocking the air flow to the ceiling mounted halogen spotlights in our bathroom and en suite. Actually, in our case there was an air gap - but since changing them to 4 or 5W LEDs with a suitable LED driver, there's no real heat issue at all.

 

[21C101]

Another good reason to get LED lighting. I was never that happy with the insulation blocking the air flow to the ceiling mounted halogen spotlights in our bathroom and en suite. Actually, in our case there was an air gap - but since changing them to 4 or 5W LEDs with a suitable LED driver, there's no real heat issue at all.

I can see once the technology matures lighting circuits being converted to 24 V d.c. which would get rid of the need for an on board transformer/rectifier on each LED bulb (the main cause of the remaining heat and bulb failures)

 

[jon0844]

Yes that would be good. No more buzzing on the dimmable bulbs then either.

I am sure that in the future, we'll see more innovative lighting in general. I'm quite interested in the OLED panels being worked on.

Why have a new house with a single ceiling rose for a traditional bulb? And just as drop lights were the big thing in the 1990s onwards, I am sure we'll see some creative solutions using tiny LEDs.

So far LEDs are built to fit existing sockets, but that doesn't HAVE to be the way it's done.

 

[Trog]

I can see once the technology matures lighting circuits being converted to 24 V d.c. which would get rid of the need for an on board transformer/rectifier on each LED bulb (the main cause of the remaining heat and bulb failures)

Not a good idea, as to prevent voltage drop across your house the wires would have to be of a much larger cross section, than the 1.5 and 1mm Sq cable used today. Which would mean a full rewire of the lighting circuit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also in most cases lighting circuit wiring has not been designed to have six to nine inches of insulation dumped on top of it and around it in the loft by government sponsored cowboys, preventing heat dissipation.

1.5mm cable laying on a plasterboard ceiling with more than 100mm of rock wool insulation is rated for 13 amps of current. (22 amps if dangling in the air).
As lighting circuits are fused at 6 amps, you still have over 100% safety margin at maximum load. Yee haa.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also dont forget that the wiring was designed for 240v a.c. not 230v a.c. which has a higher current (not a great deal mind you)
.

I didn't hence the two amperage values in my post.

 

[21C101]

Not a good idea, as to prevent voltage drop across your house the wires would have to be of a much larger cross section, than the 1.5 and 1mm Sq cable used today. Which would mean a full rewire of the lighting circuit.

Indeed, it would need a rewire, but I can see it coming sooner or later.

1.5mm cable laying on a plasterboard ceiling with more than 100mm of rock wool insulation is rated for 13 amps of current. (22 amps if dangling in the air).
As lighting circuits are fused at 6 amps, you still have over 100% safety margin at maximum load. Yee haa.

If it is 1.5mm. Many are 1.0mm and 1.0mm is still apparently installed by some. Completely surround that by thermal insulation and you have a rating of 8A, only 2A above a 6A mcb, and of more rather concern if you have a 5A fuse which probably will tolerate 9A for a while. Probably ok when new but once it degrades and the resistance goes up.... Interesting discussion on this at IET forums: http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/...d=49757&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

I believe 1.5mm may have been made mandatory when the 17th edition came in last year because of this very issue, not sure though.

I didn't hence the two amperage values in my post.

Apologies, missed that.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ergy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

The European Union is considering pulling the plug on high-wattage hair dryers, lawn mowers and electric kettles in a follow up to its controversial ban on powerful vacuum cleaners.
The power of hairdryers could be reduced by as much as 30 per cent in order to be more eco-friendly, a draft study commissioned by Brussels suggests, threatening many of the models favoured by hairdressers and consumers for speedy blow-dries.

While we have an imminent war on Europe's doorstep nice to know the usual suspects have their priorities right.

 

[starrymarkb]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ergy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html



While we have an imminent war on Europe's doorstep nice to know the usual suspects have their priorities right.

My understanding is the EU doesn't involve itself with Defense. That is still a matter for the national governments of the member states. The EU is involved with Product Standards, which I can't see being relevant to the situation in Ukraine.

What will be interesting is how NATO handle it at their Summit next week.

 

[ainsworth74]

My understanding is the EU doesn't involve itself with Defense.

To the extent that there isn't an EU Defence Force it doesn't but I'm not sure I'd say it's completely uninvolved in military maters there exists a mutual defence clause in the treaty of Lisbon and there is also one in the Treaty of Brussels. The EU are also, as far as I'm aware, working towards an EU wide defence policy.

Now admittedly as Ukraine isn't in the EU (or NATO) none of the mutual defence clauses apply but I wouldn't say the EU doesn't involve itself in defence.

 

[Yew]

And just as drop lights were the big thing in the 1990s onwards

I thought most stock built after 1990 had power doors, and no drop lights

Realistically, I can see houses soon having a secondary 5v (or something) wiring system, for USB sockets to charge devices, and to power lighting and other low power devices, with 240v AC reserved for rooms that need more power (for electric cookers, kettles and heaters etc)

 

[21C101]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ergy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html



While we have an imminent war on Europe's doorstep nice to know the usual suspects have their priorities right.

I'm beginning to wonder if Farage has infiltrated the EU energy ministry to get them to deliberately do things that will make them as unpopular as possible, like back door energy rationing.

Certainly intentional rationing by stealth for the plebs (while EU commissioners ride around in large limousines) is the only feasible explanation other than they have very little understanding of the laws of Physics.

You might be able to make incremental reductions in power of say a hairdryer without losing quality (e.g. 2.2Kw to 2.0Kw) by clever designs, 2.2 to 900watts, the apparent proposed maximum - not a cats chance.

I think intentional rationing is too complex for them. I think they are just unintelligent people with little if any scientific or engineering knowledge wedded to fashionable green dogmas because right thinking people hold to those dogmas, who think if they tell manufacturers to produce 900W vacuum cleaners and hairdryers that work as well as 2.2Kw models then they will.

A bit like when Railtrack expected signalling contractors to be able to do moving block on the whole west coast mainline because Railtrack were important and they wanted it.......we all know how well that ended.

 

[NSEFAN]

How would one measure the efficiency of a vacuum cleaner? I think that enforcing higher efficiencies is a good thing, but I do wonder in this case if it is possible to make vacuum cleaners so much more efficient?

 

[cjp]

If Dyson can bring a no-frills model to the market they'll make a killing.

Ah but what is a Dyson Digital Motor?

"Breakthrough technology takes time to develop. Our engineers have spent a decade developing highly efficient digital motors."

Just get a life since life sucks (sometimes)