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European Sleeper experience

Austriantrain

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Allowed may be but definitely not enforced. I took a Railjet from Verona to Innsbruck two weeks ago and there was only one loc, and the control car just behind it. No second loc at the end of the train.

I think it depends on the stations served and is more of an issue at termini (obviously). Someone from ÖBB told me that the second loco gets added at Verona for trains not ending there. Not sure if it is really done though.

In any case, getting access to the RFI network is *very* complicated.
 
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MattSGB

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I was on the inaugural.

We had a message from ES on Monday saying it would terminate in Verona, with connection on Regional to Venice arriving 1650. (2h50 later than it says in my booking, as well as a retimed departure from Brussels)

Rumours swirling on Wed evening that we would terminate in Innsbruck, and indeed a brief message to that effect on the platform boards.

There was then no info at all on board about plans (the PA system wasn’t working, and the staff didn’t know). And no email/ SMS from ES.

A good atmosphere in the bar car, however, and nobody seemed to be complaining.

Next morning passengers were asking each other what to do at Innsbruck, and even whether they needed to buy a new ticket. Some didn’t even know we’d terminated.

Eventually got an SMS at 11am, telling us they’d arranged ticket acceptance on the Railjet to Verona at 1124, followed by Regional. From then, there seemed to be lots of ES staff handing out sandwiches etc.

We did indeed arrive at 1650.

I really want them to succeed, and I know how hard it is to get a show like this on the road, but as always it’s the lack of communication that frustrates! Especially since the problems with going into Italy seem to have been known about.
This is exactly how I feel. We all understand the technical difficulties, but the thing that puts me off using ES in the future is the awful customer communication (or absence of) and examples of appalling customer service - I'll never forget the octogenarian who was rudely told that he was in a shared couchette rather than his booked private sleeper because his ticket said "single", and it was his own fault!
This is basic and a small fish like ES needs to nail it to succeed.
 

mad_rich

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"The Man in Seat 61" has not long posted this on X:

I guess he must have got a free trip in return for it being an advertising feature.
I shared a table with Mark on the Railjet. I didn’t ask him, but my guess would be he paid for his ticket.

I think his style is just positivity. Maybe a bit too much positivity sometimes(!), but I guess sometimes it’s necessary to overegg the benefits of rail and gloss over the negatives. His opinions carry a lot of weight; in his position I’d be loath to focus on the failures based on one day.

To be honest, I think I preferred the Railjet to another 5 hours on ES. It’s a shame there was no direct RJ at that hour. But the biggest shame that the plan wasn’t communicated.

If they’d just sent a holding SMS in the evening, then a detailed plan in the morning, it would’ve been a perfectly pleasant experience.
 
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danchester

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I suspected he'd wait until the morning to say anything - either out of optimism for a last minute solution being found or trying not to kill the hype - though I suppose I didn't consider the idea that he might not have entirely known what was happening himself!

While ES have been known to give out tickets to 'influencers', I also don't get the sense that Mark would need or want them.

It's a difficult business, being in his position: he has a duty to accurately inform potential travellers, and he is not shy of being critical from time to time, but he also wants to promote and grow rail travel. His voice has a lot of sway, and with ES still in a precarious place, it's not impossible that he could make or break them. Very few such endeavours make it this far, let alone manage long term success, so for now he clearly recognises the need to rally around it. I don't think he's wrong.


Back to the events in question, more details are starting to spill out: https://www.railtech.com/all/2025/0...re-that-sunk-the-brussels-venice-night-train/

At the heart of the issue is the Italian operator Arenaways, which European Sleeper relies on for the Italian portion of the route. European Sleeper, as a non-Italian operator, lacks the necessary certifications and licences to operate trains on Italian rail infrastructure. The newly rejuvenated Arenaways has this access, holds the necessary certifications, and therefore was supposed to provide European Sleeper with the operational capabilities required for trains to run legally and efficiently in Italy.

Essentially, without such a partnership, the night train start-up cannot legally or practically run services on Italian soil. And European Sleeper claims that a final agreement with Arenaways was reached three weeks ago. However, according to Arenaways, no such agreement has been signed yet. “We reached a final agreement with Arenaways three weeks ago. Since then, the signing of the contract has been postponed several times,” Engelsman told Treinreiziger.nl. It’s this missing signature that effectively blocked European Sleeper’s train from entering Italy, forcing it to terminate in Innsbruck.

The Italian company later confirmed with ferrovie.it that “there was a negotiation, without however reaching an official agreement or formalising any contract with European Sleeper.”

Sounds like amateur hour all round.
 
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nwales58

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Sounds like Italian hour all round!
Planning meeting, northern europeans look at it and point out it won't work. Italians go 'alora, va bene', it'll be ok.
Start of work, half the stuff needed is missing. Italians go into panic mode.
Two weeks later, it's fixed.
BTDTGTTS
 

danchester

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Information is being provided in advance for tomorrow's return journey at least: https://www.europeansleeper.eu/disruptions

Timetable change February 9 ES1278 (Venice-Brussels)​

Change of Departure Station​

Our first train to Venice was not allowed to continue further than Innsbruck due to the fact that the Italian operator had not fullfilled all required internal procedures. We were only informed about this less than one day before departure. Therefore European Sleeper cannot depart from Venezia Santa Lucia, Venezia Mestre, Verona, Bozen/Bolzano and Brixen/ Bressanone. Instead, the departure station will be Innsbruck (Austria) at 21.24.

How to Travel to Innsbruck​

We have reserved seats for all passengers in train EC80 with destination Innsbruck/München and change in Innsbruck to board European Sleeper. This train is operated by ÖBB (Austrian Railways) and Deutsche Bahn (German Railways).

Timetable train Eurocity (EC) 80

Departure from Venezia Santa Lucia: 15:35

Departure from Venezia Mestre: 15:47

Departure from Verona Porta Nuova: 17.01

Departure from Bozen/Bolzano: 18.34

Departure from Brixen/Bressanone: 19.04

Arrival at Innsbruck: 20.36

No need to worry about delays; if Train EC 80 is delayed, European Sleeper will wait at Innsbruck.

Please be aware that there might be a limited selection of snacks and drinks available for purchase on the train. It might be a good idea to stock up on some essentials beforehand.

Ticket instructions

You do not need to purchase an additional ticket. Your European Sleeper ticket is valid on this train. The train conductor is informed about this arrangement in case tickets are checked.

The seat reservations have been made in the following carriages: 255, 256, 257 and 258. Above the seats, there is a sign above the seat where you can see which ones are reserved and which are not. You may also take a seat in places where no reservations have been made.

On the platform of Venecia Santa Lucia and in the train, European Sleeper staff members will be present. You can recognize them by the European Sleeper logo.
Doesn't say anything about the next Brussels-Venice trip (Friday 14th) but the timetable is showing the same arrival times as were achieved with connections the other day, so it appears they're expecting a similar outcome. After that they're all showing the originally advertised timetable (with some presumably unrelated adjustments to departure times from Brussels).
 

AlbertBeale

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Planning meeting, northern europeans look at it and point out it won't work. Italians go 'alora, va bene', it'll be ok.
Start of work, half the stuff needed is missing. Italians go into panic mode.
Two weeks later, it's fixed.
BTDTGTTS

"BTDTGTTS" ??


 

nwales58

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... done that ... got the T-shirt.

Seriously, fiasco on day 1 usually turns into all's well within a week or so from my experiences. We'll see.
 

popeter45

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Information is being provided in advance for tomorrow's return journey at least: https://www.europeansleeper.eu/disruptions

Doesn't say anything about the next Brussels-Venice trip (Friday 14th) but the timetable is showing the same arrival times as were achieved with connections the other day, so it appears they're expecting a similar outcome. After that they're all showing the originally advertised timetable (with some presumably unrelated adjustments to departure times from Brussels).
This return is being this way is most likely due to it not reaching Venice in the first place I assume

Yea hope they get the paperwork sorted for upcoming trips
 

danchester

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The remaining Venice services in March have had their timetables changed as well. Seems to suggest that they've given up.

Looks like I'll get the surprise treat of sampling Innsbruck's first class lounge...
 
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Bletchleyite

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It's extremely well explained what to do, though I'm not sure blaming your contractor publically is a particularly good look. It's not like TOCs blaming Network Rail where they can't control the supplier - they have chosen their contractor and presumably not quite done all their due diligence.
 

popeter45

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So assuming march 4 will also be a RJ any word on which ticket type get which seat type on the RJ?, all standard or any chance sleepers get 1st?
 

AdamWW

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It's extremely well explained what to do, though I'm not sure blaming your contractor publically is a particularly good look. It's not like TOCs blaming Network Rail where they can't control the supplier - they have chosen their contractor and presumably not quite done all their due diligence.

Seems a little harsh to me.

No matter how much effort you put into it, due dligence can't guarantee a contractor will perform.

Anyone else they picked (if there was a real choice) may have done no better in the circumstances.

My view is that when things like this happen it's reasonable to explain that the problem is caused by a contractor, so long as EPS (in this case) accepts responsibility and makes appropriate arrangements - which they have clearly done here. There is a big difference between responsibility and blame.
 

mad_rich

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Yeah, as a passenger I quite like to know the reasons behind the disruption - even if in the end it's European Sleeper who I paid my money to and European Sleeper whose responsibility it all is.

Their communication was poor, but the explanation makes me more sympathetic to ES than I would be to an established operator. I still haven't decided whether to ask for delay compensation in cash, as a voucher, or not at all!
 

AdamWW

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Yeah, as a passenger I quite like to know the reasons behind the disruption - even if in the end it's European Sleeper who I paid my money to and European Sleeper whose responsibility it all is.

Their communication was poor, but the explanation makes me more sympathetic to ES than I would be to an established operator. I still haven't decided whether to ask for delay compensation in cash, as a voucher, or not at all!

I had a significantly delayed journey with them.

I don't know where the blame lay and therefore whether I'd quality for compensation or not, but decided they could keep the money anyway. I'd like to see them survive. Didn't cause me any trouble - I missed out on a couple of hours in Prague but got to go through Berlin in the light (and awake).
 

popeter45

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email from ES had this to say about upcomming trips

Especially the times and possible transfers in Italy have not yet been confirmed. We are currently coordinating the best possible travel options with our Italian operator.

sounds like they are at least trying to get to venice at least once
 

popeter45

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Looks like I’ve ended up on the actual inauguration Venice train
attached photo shows a email indicating the European sleeper train march 4th will be the first to head to venice
 

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danchester

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Beat me to it!

The 'behind the scenes' text at the end of the email is reasonably candid. No new information but interesting hints about their future plans - seems they're not ruling out repeating this experiment next year...

Behind the Scenes: The Main Challenges of the Brussels - Venice Pilot Season

The new European Sleeper winter train was designed to offer night train journeys to a mix of winter sports and city trip destinations.

The 2025 season is a pilot for this new European Sleeper project, with an initial plan of seven round trips. The main challenges have been securing a suitable timetable across five countries and ensuring reliable operations in Italy, a brand-new destination for us.

The launch event was cheerful, and the night train ride to Innsbruck went smoothly. However, on the evening before departure, European Sleeper was informed that the Italian operator was unable to run the train. It later became clear that this was due to internal approvals not being aligned. We are relieved to have finally found a solution for operations in Italy for March 2025.

This understandably caused a lot of stress for our team and disappointment for our travellers. To ensure everyone could continue their journey, we arranged alternative transport between Innsbruck and Italy on the morning of 6 February, allowing passengers to travel onwards on regular express trains along this route.

European Sleeper is now evaluating the winter train project to develop a plan for winter 2026. Beyond the challenges of operating in Italy, the long journey times are a key concern.

On the other hand, we saw that the trains were well booked, many travellers were happy with our service, and there was a great atmosphere on board—especially in the dining car and at the bar.

In other news I wonder why the dining car is not featuring on tonight's run to Innsbruck.
 

popeter45

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dont think i saw tonight as a booking option in the first place so dont think its broken

if they want to cut down on journey time a easy win would be cut out the Belgium part of the trip and make it Amsterdam-Venice or focus on a new route such as Brussels-Zurich/Milan?
 

Steve W

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Heading south to Innsbruck

On Tuesday 11 February before travelling on Friday 14th I receive the email from the operator. All it amounts to is a change to the car we are in, all other details remain constant.



(‘Update for Train Brussels – Venice

We would like to inform you of some significant changes to your booking for European Sleeper train ES 1277 from Brussels - Innsbruck.



Your carriage, compartment and/or place number(s) changed due to a rearrangement of the composition of our train departing Fri 14 February 2025.



The occupancy (private or shared or women only) will remain the same.



Please check the timetable and your booking details below.’)




No mention of the train not proceeding on beyond Innsbruck but this time it doesn’t matter - we’re only going that far (although onwards to Bressanone/Brixen wouldn’t have hurt because that’s where we alight to turn eastwards up the Pustertal line). My ES ticket is only good to Innsbruck.



I believe that the Friday service on the 14th is only the second time it’s run or attempted to run, so maybe the bugs are still being worked out.



I had forgotten/don’t care which couchette compartment we are in, so long as it remains what we booked for - private two person occupancy of a five bed compartment. For that reason only I don’t regard the news as ‘significant’.



When I found some time, I see that we've gone

from Carriage 21, Place 32, 35

to Coach 9: Place 51, 52 – which is at least a change from standard (6-bed) to comfort (5-bed). We booked comfort at the start and I never noticed that our original allocation was standard.



On following a link in this thread here I found three pages of updates on the ES website which partially explains the cause and fully explains the outcome and alternative arrangements for this coming weekend for pax venturing beyond Innsbruck.



The EuroSTAR leg

St Pancras. Short queue, French queue jumpers. Take the side line for a quicker bag search.



Come this way out of the passport French manual control into the no-queue e-gates line - any passport can go, but not the passport you just showed me, for that you have step back to the queue from which I just removed you, for queue stares.



In the departure lounge no seats at all, standing room only. Can I suggest that you redevelop the undercroft so that the station adopts a bit more of a station atmosphere and utility rather than a shopping centre with trains.



I had forgotten what level of seating we have. Turns out we are mid class with free grub, free tea, free beer and wine hurray.



A check on https://www.b-europe.com/EN/Real-time shows our onward ES service is booked 18:06, not delayed yet, and going to Venice- but we know better.



My personal ratings following are 1-10, with 1 disaster and 10 superb.



In Bruxelles as close as D-30 no platform indicated. The small repeater screens throughout do not show our train or our spoor 5/10. The big main screen does, 20 minutes before time 8/10.



No platform assistance visible at all. The overall boarding process is

no advance knowledge of where to stand,

is the train numbering high to low or what,

no platform assistance,

in to platform only just on time,

away promptly,

people with bags up and down corridors looking for compartments.

Not a crisis but could be a little smoother. 5/10.



Double booked?

A party in coach nine was trying to find their cabin and saying that their number was already occupied and seeking help. It must have been given because they evaporated and it's none of my business.



Timely departure from Bruxelles one minute late. 10/10



On board

Staff are uniformed, competent, knowledgeable, cheerful. In car nine Valerie offered help on request and help later unprompted. Positive 10/10.



Breda on time. 10/10



After the half hour wait before Breda for locomotive change, we ran along at 79 mph (gps checked). Who cares? 10/10.



Coach nine is clean, quiet, full, tidy, fully equipped, signposted, smooth ride, no bumps, no jolts. It’s old and a little careworn but who cares? Blankets 2 x 2, sheet sleeping bag 2 x 2. Positive 10/10.



Outside of coach 8 is filthy. Coachwork and windows unaddressed for a long time. 3/10 for appearance and housekeeping.



Coach nine clean inside and out. 10/10.



No ticket check until underway. Our tickets match Valerie’s paper expectation. 10/10.



I didn't bother with the Bar.



Water bottles ready. 10/10



Lavatory and two washrooms clean, tidy and presentable. 10/10.



Heating back to too hot 21:06. 4/10



Labelling for windows

They do open, but they need all of my 96kg to do so, and there’s no instruction label. Valerie told us how. 2/10 for the problem, 10/10 for the fix.



Heating 1

The buttons for heat control seem ineffective but the steward noted complaints from other pax, told us so, said that she’d tell the engineer to spanner it, and by 21:00 gmt +1 the heating radiator has gone from too hot to just enough. 6/10 veering 3/10.



Heating 2

The radiator below the window has two settings - cool to warm, and roast. We opened the window for a while to heat the sky, but then had to close it again and fiddle with it during the night, seeking a compromise between warm enough to sleep, fresh air to breathe, and quiet enough for slumber. For effectiveness 7/10, for utility 3/10.



Other passengers

We had quiet company on each neighbouring compartment so okay. You can just about hear voices but not speech. 8/10



At closing time it was a joy to listen to the drunken dolts crashing and banging and shouting their way back home but after that, quite quiet. Not ES fault.



At 0200, there were several short successive halts, presumably for signals, and the driver had not mastered the art of feathering his brakes, so jolt-stop-go x three. 3/10.



There is ductwork in the cabin. It contains liquid. Which tinkles and gurgles all night long somewhere between a large cistern never filling up and a piazza fountain never emptying. 3/10



There’s also a large square flat box mounted on the ceiling which looks just like an air conditioner but which serves only to decorate and deceive.



We left Munich twenty minutes late who cares. We’d had to wait outside before the station waiting on a platform.



I was aware that we can use the first class Lounge at Innsbruck (thanks Mark61) (but when I reported to him my northbound he says that he was surprised that I could get in there at all), and I was wondering whether all the Venice passengers would try to pile in there.



I arranged my journey in October and with cabin alterations and booking changes and ticket pricing halving I was as excited as an excited thing. Nothing about the actualite has disappointed me. It is what I expected. It’s not the Orient Express with flunkeys at every juncture- it’s a cheaply priced, modern, innovative service using recycled stock and brand new people on a new route. 9/10



It’s a success.





Heading home

At Innsbruck the ÖBB lounge door lock was broken, leaving the door shut but insecure. Many looked at it, but were put off from entering due to its signing. Taking Mark61s advice I went in and had a break. Good supply of chocolate and other snacks and many soft drinks.



However, the wall mounted train display is limited. It only shows ÖBB trains departing, not all trains - but it doesn't say so. It doesn’t say that not all trains are on it. 1/10



My ES train had been booked away for 21:00 and I watched in warm comfort as successive trains were shown, but not my retimed 19:25. I thought that maybe the station staff had not allocated a platform for the ES outlier and that it would pop up and be interleaved later but before time. NOT SO. 1/10



I asked a member of station staff where it was. His response – ‘this Lounge is a lounge for ÖBB customers only, so this departure board is for ÖBB trains only'. Plus, ‘what are you doing in here with your ES ticket?’. Another passenger chimed in with ‘platform 6 – it's up there now, but locked up’, so I wandered up there. 2/10



In complete fairness, the main station display tellies do have this and other trains up, but none of those displays are visible from inside the Lounge.



The man shrugged and said that it was unreliable, and anyway, if I was travelling on ES, what was I doing there. I told him about my sleeper ticket but not interested. He would have to make enquiries with elsewhere. I quit before finding out the answer. Lounge lizard life.



My retimed train left 85 minutes early, allowing for a one hour wait in Munich. We were on a platform and advised to take care of our luggage.



Overall bed length

The couchette beds are all about 6 feet long. They are firm and comfortable.



Noise from adjoining compartments full of family fun intrude.



Curtains – utterly useless

They don't join with Velcro. They admit light from both sides and the bottom.



In my room (car 10, beds 51, 53) one of the corridor side curtains has a lining up hole on the rail for the curtain hook runners, through which they all fall. To achieve privacy and darkness on that side, I had to fashion a coat and my shirt across the gap.



I will try to put a video clip of how the set up doesn't work.



Heating

There's a range of heating levels, and on this service, I had it turned down from roasting to least, based on the heat on entry and my experience from a week ago. In fact it did seem to work so that adjusting it from lowest to middle brought a comfortable level of heat. 6/10



On the other hand the little red ‘steward’ light did nothing but blink all night and day. Pressing it for ‘on’ – nothing’ and likewise trying to press it for ‘off’. Pretty, useless. 1/10





The bedding from a previous trip was left on top of the over-corridor luggage rack, uncollected. The rack has a downwards facing mirror which is excellent for checking for leftover items but not for last night’s laundry. 3/10





The sheet blanket and pillow case for my bed was fine and in good order.



Two compartments at the end of my car were locked all night. One of them is jammed with laundry waiting for Bruxelles. I understand that it has to go somewhere, and that an empty room is an empty room but the curtains needed securing so that the behind the scenes bit stays there.



The washroom in car 10 was locked all night. The lavatory was open all night and still flushed correctly in the morning. Worn but clean.



Stopping starting

Many times during the night, the train would slow somewhat sharply, sometimes stopping and then restarting very quickly. This does not matter if we are sitting up, but lying down transversely means that each stop and re-acceleration rolls us first one way and then the other. Data graph of speed here – speed in green.





Likewise rail camber, which no doubt work for trains at the right speed but when the train pauses on them, tilts us headwards or footwards. Sitting up doesn't matter but it disturbs sleep.



On one stop the guard told us all that we were stopped on a main line, not at a platform – so please don't open the doors.



Lighting - good



Cleanliness

As we left Innsbruck a Turkish gent went down the corridor hoovering. Could that not have been done in the day-long layover?



I had no bottled water but it was supplied on request.



U shaped safety rail

For the upper bunks, there is a collapsible U shaped safety rail against which my side or arse kept touching. It's cold and it wakes one, remining one of the minute risk of rolling out of bed.



The arm rests by the end of the seats move and serve to move the lowest back cushions in and out for day or night settings. It's a nice, helpful analogue touch.



The train side window does move, if you apply all your weight, but you have a choice of noise or ventilation.



After the Venlo locomotive change – which was carried out with complete stillness and quiet, the house electrical power did not resume for five minutes. Two members of platform staff and two train-twitchers – at 08:45.



Into Bruxelles 6 minutes early.



Conclusion

I was engaged by the idea of the sleeper – adventure, romance, night train, long distance, works for me, value, train-hotel, past trips in UK and EU.



The reality? Yes, all those still work. It delivered me safely and quickly to and from my ski holiday. Maybe the rough edges will work themselves out. Maybe I'm getting old and less tolerant of under-delivery. Maybe I'm comparing easyJet apples with ES pears which is always going to be an unfair match.



European Sleeper did what it advertised, successfully. The niggles really all are quite minor and more a symptom of my age and expectations than actual faults. Overall, 8/10.



Thank you.
I have some pictures and if I find time will upload.
 

popeter45

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dont think i saw tonight as a booking option in the first place so dont think its broken
spoke too soon
Dear Traveller,

Unfortunately, the European Sleeper bar and dining car will not be available on the train until 10 March 2025, as it is currently in the workshop for repairs. This means we are unable to provide the dinner and/or breakfast you ordered.

You order will be cancelled and fully refunded early next week.

We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience.

The European Sleeper Team
 

danchester

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3 Oct 2018
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The final timetable for tomorrow's venture into Italy, just published, suggests that it still won't reach Santa Lucia. But that's not the end of the world. At least they can advertise it as a train to Venice while keeping a straight face!

17:21 Bruxelles-Midi
20:11 Breda Arrival 20:04
20:59 Eindhoven Centraal Arrival 20:57
23:30 Köln Hbf Arrival 23:28
07:39 München Ost Arrival 07:22
08:54 Kufstein Arrival 08:52
09:08 Wörgl Arrival 09:05
09:30 Jenbach Arrival 09:27
10:05 Innsbruck Hbf Arrival 09:59
11:10 Brennero / Brenner Arrival 10:42
11:56 Bressanone / Brixen Arrival 11:53
12:11 Ponte Gardena-Laion / Waidbruck-Lajen Arrival 12:09
12:28 Bolzano / Bozen Arrival 12:25
15:07 Verona Porta Nuova Arrival 14:35
16:59 Venezia Mestre

spoke too soon

Ah, sorry to hear about that. So it'll only get one more run (12th / 16th). All said I can't imagine they'll have made much money out of it - hopefully they still recognise its importance as part of the overall quality of service (especially on a journey of this length).
 

popeter45

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suspect thats shunting rules if thats the case, no email yet about it

luckly got enough time to raid a local supermarket for trip snacks before the trip itself

almost 24hr on a single train will be a record for me, beats 22hr on Silver Meteor
 
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nwales58

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07:39 München Ost Arrival 07:22
08:54 Kufstein Arrival 08:52
09:08 Wörgl Arrival 09:05
09:30 Jenbach Arrival 09:27
10:05 Innsbruck Hbf Arrival 09:59
11:10 Brennero / Brenner Arrival 10:42
11:56 Bressanone / Brixen Arrival 11:53
12:11 Ponte Gardena-Laion / Waidbruck-Lajen Arrival 12:09
12:28 Bolzano / Bozen Arrival 12:25
15:07 Verona Porta Nuova Arrival 14:35
16:59 Venezia Mestre
Umm. Beginning to look a bit pointless.

Bail out at München Ost onto EC81 and get to Mestre 2h sooner?

Or, for the same journey time, leave Bruxelles an hour later, sleep 8-9h in a hotel night somewhere Frankfurt onwards, RJ85 gets there an hour after the sleeper but with a much more pleasant daytime experience. On-board restaurant all the way.
 

mad_rich

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2013
Messages
469
Location
Newcastle
The final timetable for tomorrow's venture into Italy, just published, suggests that it still won't reach Santa Lucia. But that's not the end of the world. At least they can advertise it as a train to Venice while keeping a straight face!

17:21 Bruxelles-Midi
...
16:59 Venezia Mestre
Wow. Close 24 hours! In fact it may well be by the time you've arrived in Santa Lucia

The timetable when I booked was long enough 1900-1400. (Actual 1806-1650, once we'd changed in Innsbruck & Verona)

I'm not sure they can make a service look serious. Any sane person would take the Nightjet to Rosenheim, then the Eurocity. You leave two hours later, arrive two hours earlier, get better quality trains and daily service.
 

danchester

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
80
Matter of preference I suppose - I'd still easily take this over having to get up at ~6am on the NJ to change at Rosenheim, or ~7am to change from this one at Munich (a connection I wouldn't trust anyway). For me, and I'm sure for other leisure travellers, that length of travelling is much easier on a direct train with a private compartment and comfy beds that let me sleep in as long as I want, as well as a dining car (even if it's gone after breakfast, but there isn't one on the EC either). Losing several hours of sleep to save an hour or two later in day personally doesn't feel like a saving at all, but I'm sure early birds will feel differently!

The timings certainly aren't ideal though. From their comments about future plans it is clear they aren't happy with the length of the journey. I wonder if, with all the grief Italy has given them, they'll be considering only running to Innsbruck if they can't get a better path in future.


The timetable for Saturday's return journey is even more absurd. RJ84 will beat it by some distance!

10:45 Venezia Mestre
14:00 Verona Porta Nuova Arrival 13:30
15:47 Bolzano / Bozen Arrival 15:45
16:08 Ponte Gardena-Laion / Waidbruck-Lajen Arrival 16:06
16:26 Bressanone / Brixen Arrival 16:24
17:53 Brennero / Brenner Arrival 17:15
19:25 Innsbruck Hbf Arrival 18:29
19:52 Jenbach Arrival 19:50
20:13 Wörgl Arrival 20:11
20:26 Kufstein Arrival 20:24
22:30 München Ost Arrival 22:30
07:10 Köln Hbf Arrival 07:07
10:16 Eindhoven Centraal Arrival 10:13
14:09 Bruxelles-Midi
 
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popeter45

Established Member
Joined
7 Dec 2019
Messages
1,274
Location
london
Train was delayed arriving into Brussels by 30 minutes, needless to say some other passengers were very vocal in anger about that

On our way but being pulled by a SNCB 27 so that must mean a loco swap before Breda

Seem to be doing that in Roosendaal, didn’t even realise it had dual voltage capability
 
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