Eurostar and Thalys to merge in 2021

[TheSeeker]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b...eH2nOZuxU8jB4xZFo6ZSSFhIls4OVBxsgkhV2R7Kx4_u4

"Eurostar and Thalys will merge in 2021.

Although the merger is not a secret (plans were announced last year) Thalys’ CEO Bertrand Gosselin has now confirmed it will go ahead next year.,

This is despite both Thalys and Eurostar facing tough times owing to the effects of Covid-19 which has led to a traffic decline.

France’s La Tribune reports that Thalys is currently facing a “brutal fall in its traffic owing to quarantine and other restrictions.

However, despite the fall in passenger numbers, the Franco-Belgian operator has decided to retain service frequency throughout September.

Interviewed by Le Soir, Thalys CEO Bertrand Gosselin said, “Placing Paris in the red zone hurt us very badly.”

“Business travel is one of the exceptions and remains possible.”

Therefore to encourage traffic Thalys intends to develop special fares for b2b clients. Further details are awaited.

The situation is worse still at Eurostar. All its destinations lie in the UK quarantine zone and the operator has scaled back services on all routes.

In addition, Eurostar says London St Pancras will be its sole UK destination until 2022.

Thalys is a Franco-Belgian HS (high speed) train operator. It is 60 per cent owned by SNCF (France) and 40 per cent by SNCB (Belgium). Its main route links Paris with Brussels, Antwerp, Rotterdam and Amsterdam."

 

[duesselmartin]

interesting would be the question if a new brand will be created or will costumer still view it as seperate operations.

 

[jamesontheroad]

interesting would be the question if a new brand will be created or will costumer still view it as seperate operations.

There is a lot of buzz on social media about the idea of the Eurostar brand disappearing or changing. No-one has suggested that. Greenspeed was a project name and the project is happening, but I don't see either the Eurostar or Thalys brands disappearing.

We have to resist the terrible SNCF culture of dreaming up a terrible new brand (Artesia, IDTGV, Inoui, Ouigo, Téoz, etc etc etc) every 5 years spreading to other operators

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

We have to resist the terrible SNCF culture of dreaming up a terrible new brand (Artesia, IDTGV, Inoui, Ouigo, Téoz, etc etc etc) every 5 years spreading to other operators

That's quite hard when they are majority owner of both operations (piper, tune etc).

 

[Mainline421]

Probably will end up being branded as something like Eurostar by Thalys or vice versa.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably will end up being branded as something like Eurostar by Thalys or vice versa.

That sounds good, and the Thalys livery is nice. But don't put it past SNCF to come up with something really stupid. "Ouimanche"?

 

[tarq]

I think Eurostar is the stronger of the two brands. I would like the Eurostar brand to replace Thalys in Mainland Europe.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I think Eurostar is the stronger of the two brands. I would like the Eurostar brand to replace Thalys in Mainland Europe.

I agree.

After all, Brussels is one of the capitals of the European Union, so "Eurostar" makes sense for NL/BE/FR high speed services.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Eurostar brand name was disputed by FS/Trenitalia who claimed to have invented it first.
Their Frecce services were originally branded Eurostar Italia, but they don't seem to use it as much these days.
Eurostar/Eurostars is also the name of a hotel chain on the continent.

 

[duesselmartin]

I remember in 1995 Eurostars hotels going to court against Eurostar over that name.

 

[MarcVD]

They should name the new company Trans Europ Express...

 

[David Goddard]

Let's hope the merger will make the whole operation stronger, it's not going to be easy for anyone over the next two years. We are probably biased in the UK, but branding the whole as Eurostar would seem to make sense.
Could a unified, stronger operation one day enable through trains from the UK to Germany, given that Thalys work through already?

 

[crablab]

I think Eurostar is the stronger of the two brands. I would like the Eurostar brand to replace Thalys in Mainland Europe

Hmm, I think in the UK this is true, less sure about in mainland Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Thalys serves more countries than Eurostar?

 

[TFN]

Hmm, I think in the UK this is true, less sure about in mainland Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Thalys serves more countries than Eurostar?

Thalys: France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany.
Eurostar: UK, France, Netherlands and Belgium.

 

[crablab]

Serves more European countries then

 

[Peter Kelford]

I think Eurostar is the stronger of the two brands. I would like the Eurostar brand to replace Thalys in Mainland Europe.

I'd agree yet ironically I would venture to suggest that the Eurostar name is less suitable for the London-Paris routing than the ones across the Benelux.

 

[Ianno87]

Serves more European countries then

UK is still geographically in Europe. The Channel Tunnel won't stretch that far.

I'd agree yet ironically I would venture to suggest that the Eurostar name is less suitable for the London-Paris routing than the ones across the Benelux.

Ditto.

Hmm, I think in the UK this is true, less sure about in mainland Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that Thalys serves more countries than Eurostar?

I sense that Eurostar is a stronger brand globally - e.g. Americans visiting London and Paris.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If they merged the brands could we see the PBKA/PBA sets getting British TOPS numbers? Maybe even working London services? And what about 374s, would they ever work continental Thalys routes?

 

[StephenHunter]

Don't think the PBKA/PBA sets are cleared for Channel Tunnel operations. The 374s could work PBA services, mind.

 

[RT4038]

If they merged the brands could we see the PBKA/PBA sets getting British TOPS numbers? Maybe even working London services? And what about 374s, would they ever work continental Thalys routes?

If E* services are cut post Covid / post Brexit after transition, then it is quite possible that 374 units would work continental Thalys routes. Don't think the current THALYS sets are cleared for Tunnel?

 

[Ianno87]

If E* services are cut post Covid / post Brexit after transition, then it is quite possible that 374 units would work continental Thalys routes. Don't think the current THALYS sets are cleared for Tunnel?

17 sets in total, so say maximum 15 diagrammed for daily service.

Hourly London-Paris takes at least about 6-7 sets, hourly Brussels takes about 6 sets.

Say 1 set to extend some Brussels service to/from Amsterdam, one set for a Disneyland service, and that's basically the fleet accounted for.

 

[Peter Kelford]

If they merged the brands could we see the PBKA/PBA sets getting British TOPS numbers? Maybe even working London services? And what about 374s, would they ever work continental Thalys routes?

That's pretty unlikely as given the pre-covid loadings on some of the routes one would had imagined that they could have operated TGV duplexes to boost capacity but they did not.

 

[BahrainLad]

How close are the PBA/PBKA to replacement? Presumably there would be efficiencies in a large order of new trains, first for Thalys and then eventually to replace the 374s.

 

[duesselmartin]

How close are the PBA/PBKA to replacement? Presumably there would be efficiencies in a large order of new trains, first for Thalys and then eventually to replace the 374s.

considering they are around 25 years old and not much is being done to improve them (minor cosmetics), I would assume they are near the end of their life cycle.

With Thalys cutting services again one could question If the new company will be able to invest.

 

[jopsuk]

if anything, I'd have thought that operationally SNCF swallowing Thalys and just running them as "TGV Thalys", much as Lyria, or even just inOui, like all the other International joint venture services (Ellipsos to Spain, Alleo to German, France-Italie to Milan) and services to Belgium & Luxembourg.

 

[SHD]

if anything, I'd have thought that operationally SNCF swallowing Thalys and just running them as "TGV Thalys", much as Lyria, or even just inOui, like all the other International joint venture services (Ellipsos to Spain, Alleo to German, France-Italie to Milan) and services to Belgium & Luxembourg.

Thalys trains are operated by THI Factory and run under THI Factory's security certificate in France and in Belgium. I doubt that SNCF Voyageurs has plans to reintegrate Thalys into its operations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thalys trains are operated by THI Factory and run under THI Factory's security certificate in France and in Belgium. I doubt that SNCF Voyageurs has plans to reintegrate Thalys into its operations.

What an odd name - why that and not something more obvious like Thalys SA?

 

[SHD]

I have no idea and I was similarly intrigued. I guess that TH stands for Thalys and I for International. As to “Factory”, maybe the people at Thalys are contemporary art fans and wanted a Warholian vibe!

Note that Thalys International Scrl still exists and is in charge of the planning & commercialisation of Thalys trains. THI Factory SA is strictly a railway operator. Both are Belgian.

 

[reb0118]

How about rebranding both of them as Étoile D'Europe - a combination of both the Eurostar & the former premium Paris to Amsterdam train the Étoile du Nord.

 

[tarq]

How about rebranding both of them as Étoile D'Europe - a combination of both the Eurostar & the former premium Paris to Amsterdam train the Étoile du Nord.

We could rebrand them both Étoile D'Europe in English. That would save costs as we would only need to rebrand Thalys