Eurostar and Thalys to merge in 2021

[Jorge Da Silva]

I like Eurostar as the name suits the company well and it is well known name in the UK and in Belgium and France

 

[StephenHunter]

Yep, Eurostar sounds better than Thalys... which Germans have problems pronouncing.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Eurostar or perhaps its translation of Étoile d'Europe with the old yellow and white Eurostar branding might be a good idea. More likely judging by the context it will be something related to the environment or how trains are better than other modes of transport (the project is currently known as greenspeed).

 

[Ianno87]

I like Eurostar as the name suits the company well and it is well known name in the UK and in Belgium and France

I suspect Eurostar is a well-recognized name in all of the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and (to some extent) Germany (plus other countries like the US), whereas Thalys probably isn't very well recognised in the UK outside the travel/train enthusiast community.

There'll be some practical issues to consider however, e.g. at Gare du Nord or Brussels where you can no longer simply follow the Eurostar signs, as existing Thalys services would still use the domestic platforms.

 

[davetheguard]

(the project is currently known as greenspeed).

Greenspeed - I like it!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Greenspeed - I like it!

I don’t . It doesn’t sound like a company if they choose to call it Greenspeed

 

[davetheguard]

I don’t . It doesn’t sound like a company if they choose to call it Greenspeed

To me, it sounds speedy &, well, er, green. Which is what an electric very high speed train is.

However, these things are always subjective.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I very much doubt it would be used as a company name. Two-adjective names like that are very common codenames for projects before the marketeers get there and put a proper brand on it.

I would almost put money on the E*s turning burgundy (to be fair, it's a nice livery) and it becoming "Eurostar by Thalys" or similar.

 

[davetheguard]

I very much doubt it would be used as a company name. Two-adjective names like that are very common codenames for projects before the marketeers get there and put a proper brand on it.

I would almost put money on the E*s turning burgundy (to be fair, it's a nice livery) and it becoming "Eurostar by Thalys" or similar.

I hope not, the name reminds me too much of "Cross Country by Arriva". Perhaps in the real world passengers can always continue to call it simply, Eurostar.

 

[Gareth]

I doubt they'll ditch the Eurostar brand. It's a well-known brand in this country. I don't see what would improve on it.

 

[James90012]

The most obvious growth efficiencies from a London perspective come from rolling out the Eurostar 'half train' mode of operation which is how I believe Amsterdam is served - as in half of the train has London - Amsterdam passengers, the other half London - Brussels which are then replaced with Brussels - Amsterdam passengers.

Perhaps this will help the chances of Cologne joining the direct UK rail service map - running a full 374 set for the entire route is a big ask but if you're replacing two existing services it could be more attractive financially.

 

[MotCO]

There'll be some practical issues to consider however, e.g. at Gare du Nord or Brussels where you can no longer simply follow the Eurostar signs, as existing Thalys services would still use the domestic platforms.

Perhaps they could distinguish them by 'Eurostar to UK', or 'Eurostar Cross Channel' or something similar.

 

[JonathanP]

I doubt they'll ditch the Eurostar brand. It's a well-known brand in this country. I don't see what would improve on it.

Considering SNCF ditched the TGV brand in favour of InOui, I wouldn't rule anything out!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps this will help the chances of Cologne joining the direct UK rail service map - running a full 374 set for the entire route is a big ask but if you're replacing two existing services it could be more attractive financially.

Was the work DB was carrying out to enable running of a long train formed of 2 distinct units every completed? It would allow a pair of Thalys sets to be used instead of a long E*, which might improve the economics of that sort of service.

 

[Ianno87]

Was the work DB was carrying out to enable running of a long train formed of 2 distinct units every completed? It would allow a pair of Thalys sets to be used instead of a long E*, which might improve the economics of that sort of service.

There does feel something economically logical about concentrating the 400 metre sets on London-Paris, but with 2 x 200m sets on London-Brussels-beyond.

 

[Peter Kelford]

but with 2 x 200m sets on London-Brussels-beyond.

The problem is Eurotunnel restrictions which at present demand a 375m full corridor. This is, I believe is the stumbling block for many a cross-channel service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem is Eurotunnel restrictions which at present demand a 375m full corridor. This is, I believe is the stumbling block for many a cross-channel service.

Though DB was working with Eurotunnel on resolving that when the Frankfurt service was planned.

 

[Ianno87]

The problem is Eurotunnel restrictions which at present demand a 375m full corridor. This is, I believe is the stumbling block for many a cross-channel service.

Though DB was working with Eurotunnel on resolving that when the Frankfurt service was planned.

Yes, I thought the 375m requirement still stood, but *not* the through gangway requirement, which DB successfully challenged.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Yes, I thought the 375m requirement still stood, but *not* the through gangway requirement, which DB successfully challenged.

If that requirement has been shelved, then fleet deployment could be more flexible. You could see other Thalys-Eurostar rolling stock on HS1, provided they retrofit firedoors between coaches. Or even the old 373 Izy! Eurostar could be the 'faster' brand, and Izy all stations to Brussels/Paris.

 

[Mikey C]

Eurostar is surely the stronger brand, as it has a UNIQUE product as the only way to get from London to mainland Europe by train. You take the Eurostar to Europe/.

By contrast, Thalys is just a brand name for the high speed services linking those countries, with slower services also available. Trains have run for over 100 years between those countries

 

[Ianno87]

By contrast, Thalys is just a brand name for the high speed services linking those countries, with slower services also available. Trains have run for over 100 years between those countries

But nowhere near as fast as Thalys does now, nor with the frequency. Whilst Eurostar is undoubtedly the stronger brand, the Thalys name does have strong recognition too beyond "just another train service".

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst Eurostar is undoubtedly the stronger brand, the Thalys name does have strong recognition too beyond "just another train service".

Yes I think there's perhaps an element of UK bias creeping in here. Eurostar is a strong brand overall (and especially so in the UK) but that does not mean that Thalys isn't a well recognised and known brand in it's own right so I would be very hesitant in just saying "just ditch Thalys and replace it with Eurostar!". Personally my sneaking suspicion is that either we'll see no change to branding at all (some services will be Eurostar and some will be Thalys they're just run by the same company) or we might see a bit of "Eurostar by Greenspeed" and "Thalys by Greenspeed" (or whatever the combined company is named) creep into things.

Perhaps this will help the chances of Cologne joining the direct UK rail service map - running a full 374 set for the entire route is a big ask but if you're replacing two existing services it could be more attractive financially.

Does anyone know how the capacity between half a 374 and a single ICE 3 compares? My thinking being that in such a scenario you'd probably have half the train effectively providing the current DB service between Frankfurt Hbf and Brussels Midi with the other half carrying Frankfurt Hbf and Cologne Hbf international passengers (not sure the other stations on the route would justify the logistics for international travel!!).

 

[TheSeeker]

From the Belgian side Thalys is a very well know brand and for getting to Paris is almost a household name. Just like Eurostar is for getting to London. I always thought the best advertising for Thalys is when you are driving along the motorway to Paris from Brussels and get overtaken by a train at warp speed. After many Eurostar trips I found wandering onto an open platform at Midi or Rotterdam and simply getting on board to be quite liberating.

 

[BahrainLad]

Yes, I thought the 375m requirement still stood, but *not* the through gangway requirement, which DB successfully challenged.

The requirements to a) have a qualified driver in the rear cab b) to be able to split trains and c) for trains to be a specific length have all been dropped.

From the IGC annual safety report in 2011:

Other Significant Regulatory Issues Considered by the IGC and CTSA - Other important issues considered by the IGC and the CTSA during the course of the year were as follows:

(i) Review of specific safety rules for trains transiting the tunnel – The IGC published the conclusions of its review on 31 March 2010. The IGC asked ERA for a technical opinion on these conclusions in December 2010. The opinion was published in March 2011.

Further to the opinion, the IGC asked to make the necessary changes to its operating rules to remove rules requiring compliance with particular fire protection standards for the design and performance of vehicles and their fittings, and for call buttons at the end of each coach, as these requirements are dealt with by the rolling stock TSIs. It was also decided that trains no longer had to have the ablility to be split. Finally, trains were no longer required to be of a particular length; have a through-corridor; and motor units at each end, and applicants were invited to propose such systems with a requisite risk assessment using EC Regulation 352/2009.

https://www.channeltunneligc.co.uk/...df/20120928_-_IGC_Annual_Report_2011_EN-3.pdf

Also worth pointing out the "Channel Tunnel Reference Document for cross-acceptance of rail vehicles" makes no mention of length:

https://www.channeltunneligc.co.uk/...les_-_post_Agency_Opinion_revised_version.pdf

 

[JonasB]

I would almost put money on the E*s turning burgundy (to be fair, it's a nice livery) and it becoming "Eurostar by Thalys" or similar.

I really like the Thalys livery, and it would look great on the e320s. Problem is, I really like the current livery as well. Even if they continue operate at seperate brands, an integrated ticket system would be great!

 

[Ianno87]

The requirements to a) have a qualified driver in the rear cab b) to be able to split trains and c) for trains to be a specific length have all been dropped.

From the IGC annual safety report in 2011:


https://www.channeltunneligc.co.uk/spip.php?action=acceder_document&arg=219&cle=a02b070c77e16c4da14bd9612ff221bc&file=pdf/20120928_-_IGC_Annual_Report_2011_EN-3.pdf

Also worth pointing out the "Channel Tunnel Reference Document for cross-acceptance of rail vehicles" makes no mention of length:

https://www.channeltunneligc.co.uk/spip.php?action=acceder_document&arg=512&cle=9679e069e9e2a98e15e71f72c40a0263&file=pdf/Revised_CT_reference_document_national_rules_for_rail_vehicles_-_post_Agency_Opinion_revised_version.pdf

Ah thanks.

Although the tunnel access charge likely encourages running the maximum possible train length to maximise bums on seats anyway.

 

[biko]

In the Netherlands, I would think Thalys is much more well known than Eurostar. It has been around for I believe 25 years or so and many people consider it for travelling to Paris. Eurostar has just started running to and from the Netherlands and I don’t think that many Dutch people will have used it in the past. Anecdotally, I needed to explain to people what Eurostar was when I returned from London but lots of ‘normal’ people talk about Thalys themselves.

 

[urpert]

Eurostar or perhaps its translation of Étoile d'Europe with the old yellow and white Eurostar branding might be a good idea. More likely judging by the context it will be something related to the environment or how trains are better than other modes of transport (the project is currently known as greenspeed).

Yess! Bring back the old logo which is a fantastically timeless bit of design.

 

[Peter Kelford]

Does anyone know how the capacity between half a 374 and a single ICE 3 compares? My thinking being that in such a scenario you'd probably have half the train effectively providing the current DB service between Frankfurt Hbf and Brussels Midi with the other half carrying Frankfurt Hbf and Cologne Hbf international passengers (not sure the other stations on the route would justify the logistics for international travel!!).

460 for a Velaro-D against 450 in a 374.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Even if they continue operate at seperate brands, an integrated ticket system would be great!

I think that's 1 of their main objectives given that Eurostar used to sell through ticketing onto the DB network, and combined fares with Thalys.