Euston Bank/Charing X Branch Announcements

[DynamicSpirit]

Does anyone know why Northern Line on-train announcements name Euston station not as Euston but as Euston Bank Branch or Euston Charing Cross Branch?

I can kinda marginally see the point of it for Southbound trains since it could theoretically alert someone who has got on the wrong train (although any such people would have to have already missed departure indicators), but it seems completely pointless on Northbound trains to be told specifically that your train is arriving at Euston (Bank Branch).

Up until now I'd seen it as pointless extra words, but I realised yesterday it can actually be misleading: Yesterday I was taking a friend to Euston. The friend heard the on-train announcement that we were arriving at Euston Bank Branch, and assumed that this was not her stop since she wanted the station just called Euston. If I hadn't been there to tell her this was actually Euston station, she would have stayed on the train.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I presume the announcements are the same northbound and southbound because the trains only have one set of station names

 

[Somewhere]

Maybe its for consistency. Maybe its because Mornington Crescent is only on the Charing Cross branch. Maybe its because the computer would be confused if Euston had one name northbound and two names southbound

 

[75A]

Does anyone know why Northern Line on-train announcements name Euston station not as Euston but as Euston Bank Branch or Euston Charing Cross Branch?

I can kinda marginally see the point of it for Southbound trains since it could theoretically alert someone who has got on the wrong train (although any such people would have to have already missed departure indicators), but it seems completely pointless on Northbound trains to be told specifically that your train is arriving at Euston (Bank Branch).

Up until now I'd seen it as pointless extra words, but I realised yesterday it can actually be misleading: Yesterday I was taking a friend to Euston. The friend heard the on-train announcement that we were arriving at Euston Bank Branch, and assumed that this was not her stop since she wanted the station just called Euston. If I hadn't been there to tell her this was actually Euston station, she would have stayed on the train.

I haven't been to London for at least 20 years, but whdn I did i'd always follow tbe route using the sticker on the ceiling thus knowing what the next station was going to be. I was a commuter for 19 years but that was using 'The Drain' so even I couldn't get that wrong!

 

[A60stock]

How many people (who are at least from the UK), actually can't work this out?

 

[bramling]

Does anyone know why Northern Line on-train announcements name Euston station not as Euston but as Euston Bank Branch or Euston Charing Cross Branch?

I can kinda marginally see the point of it for Southbound trains since it could theoretically alert someone who has got on the wrong train (although any such people would have to have already missed departure indicators), but it seems completely pointless on Northbound trains to be told specifically that your train is arriving at Euston (Bank Branch).

Up until now I'd seen it as pointless extra words, but I realised yesterday it can actually be misleading: Yesterday I was taking a friend to Euston. The friend heard the on-train announcement that we were arriving at Euston Bank Branch, and assumed that this was not her stop since she wanted the station just called Euston. If I hadn't been there to tell her this was actually Euston station, she would have stayed on the train.

I think the honest answer is simply that someone thought this was a good idea back in the 1990s, and no one has thought to change it since.

Certainly the recording exists to say just Euston on its own, also Camden Town as well.

The Northern Line is quite possessive over its “Celia” announcements. They are quite well regarded, which is the main reason they have managed to survive so long with minimal alteration.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think the honest answer is simply that someone thought this was a good idea back in the 1990s, and no one has thought to change it since.

Certainly the recording exists to say just Euston on its own, also Camden Town as well.

The Northern Line is quite possessive over its “Celia” announcements. They are quite well regarded, which is the main reason they have managed to survive so long with minimal alteration.

They are fantastic announcements. Although the Central Line ones are also of considerable merit.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

How many people (who are at least from the UK), actually can't work this out?

Well my friend certainly couldn't, and actually I don't think that's unreasonable. It is after all fairly common that different stations exist that share the same main part of their name but differ in a follow-up word (Clapham North, Clapham Common, Clapham South, Clapham High Street) or even in whether a follow-up word exists (Hounslow and Hounslow Central), so it's hardly surprising if someone not familiar with London might think that 'Euston Bank Branch' is a different station from 'Euston'.

I presume the announcements are the same northbound and southbound because the trains only have one set of station names

That would figure. Personally I think it would be better to just drop the 'Branch' bit from the on-train announcements and announce the station simply as 'Euston' on all trains. If TfL feel people approaching Euston need reminding what train they are on, they could always add something like 'This is a Bank branch train'. Would be a lot less confusing for people unfamiliar with the tube network.

 

[thomalex]

I came across this on Reddit (by Sponge7355) which split the Northern line through the central section and makes a lot more sense to me. I know immediately there will be people out saying "you can't do that without rebuilding Camden Town!" but with this you actually don't and both Northern and the imagined Southern line run on both branches to the north. Essentially instead of Bank branch you have Southern line and Charing Cross branch you have Northern line, nice and easy to signpost at Euston.

I must admit I found the current set up confusing when I first moved to London. I was travelling to say Warren Street which is on the Northern line and suddenly you realise you're on a Bank branch train. Does that go there? Which lines which? Where's Charing Cross?

I'm used to it now but if I knew that Warren Street was on the Northern line, so I take a Northern line train that would make a lot more sense. Moorgate? Take a Southern line train.

 

[75A]

That would figure. Personally I think it would be better to just drop the 'Branch' bit from the on-train announcements and announce the station simply as 'Euston' on all trains. If TfL feel people approaching Euston need reminding what train they are on, they could always add something like 'This is a Bank h train'. Would be a lot less confusing for people unfamiliar with the tube network.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I saw that post, drove the anti-crayon brigade mad. Personally, if I had a perfect world, I just want Charing Cross branch trains to run through to Morden. Please!

I came across this on Reddit (by Sponge7355) which split the Northern line through the central section and makes a lot more sense to me. I know immediately there will be people out saying "you can't do that without rebuilding Camden Town!" but with this you actually don't and both Northern and the imagined Southern line run on both branches to the north. Essentially instead of Bank branch you have Southern line and Charing Cross branch you have Northern line, nice and easy to signpost at Euston.

I must admit I found the current set up confusing when I first moved to London. I was travelling to say Warren Street which is on the Northern line and suddenly you realise you're on a Bank branch train. Does that go there? Which lines which? Where's Charing Cross?

I'm used to it now but if I knew that Warren Street was on the Northern line, so I take a Northern line train that would make a lot more sense. Moorgate? Take a Southern line train.

View attachment 151101

 

[rebmcr]

I came across this on Reddit (by Sponge7355) which split the Northern line through the central section and makes a lot more sense to me. I know immediately there will be people out saying "you can't do that without rebuilding Camden Town!" but with this you actually don't and both Northern and the imagined Southern line run on both branches to the north. Essentially instead of Bank branch you have Southern line and Charing Cross branch you have Northern line, nice and easy to signpost at Euston.

I must admit I found the current set up confusing when I first moved to London. I was travelling to say Warren Street which is on the Northern line and suddenly you realise you're on a Bank branch train. Does that go there? Which lines which? Where's Charing Cross?

I'm used to it now but if I knew that Warren Street was on the Northern line, so I take a Northern line train that would make a lot more sense. Moorgate? Take a Southern line train.

View attachment 151101

This diagram fails to demonstrate the fact that the southbound platforms at Camden Town are, at that point, already separated between Bank and Charing Cross.

In the morning peak it would not be possible to deter passengers on the northerly branches from boarding the very first available carriage (rather than waiting for their desired through service), especially considering queueing while multiple trains might not be boardable.

Thus, "with this you actually do" still need the station rebuild.

 

[Mojo]

This diagram fails to demonstrate the fact that the southbound platforms at Camden Town are, at that point, already separated between Bank and Charing Cross.

No they aren’t; the Southbound platforms at Camden Town are split from the northern branches; customers going Southbound have to consult the boards to determine which platform they require.

 

[Busaholic]

Well my friend certainly couldn't, and actually I don't think that's unreasonable. It is after all fairly common that different stations exist that share the same main part of their name but differ in a follow-up word (Clapham North, Clapham Common, Clapham South, Clapham High Street) or even in whether a follow-up word exists (Hounslow and Hounslow Central), so it's hardly surprising if someone not familiar with London might think that 'Euston Bank Branch' is a different station from 'Euston'.

Even closer to home is Euston Square.

 

[CarrotPie]

I came across this on Reddit (by Sponge7355) which split the Northern line through the central section and makes a lot more sense to me. I know immediately there will be people out saying "you can't do that without rebuilding Camden Town!" but with this you actually don't and both Northern and the imagined Southern line run on both branches to the north. Essentially instead of Bank branch you have Southern line and Charing Cross branch you have Northern line, nice and easy to signpost at Euston.

Where's 15 Min Walk? I haven't heard of it before...

 

[rebmcr]

No they aren’t; the Southbound platforms at Camden Town are split from the northern branches; customers going Southbound have to consult the boards to determine which platform they require.

Ah very well, everything I said instead applies to the evening peak!

 

[Basil Jet]

Essentially instead of Bank branch you have Southern line and Charing Cross branch you have Northern line, nice and easy to signpost at Euston.

You would have Northern Line Northbound, Northern Line Southbound, Southern Line Northbound and Southern Line Southbound. Hardly easy to signpost at Euston, and even worse at Camden Town.

 

[Daniel]

but it seems completely pointless on Northbound trains to be told specifically that your train is arriving at Euston (Bank Branch).

Except there is a difference in calling pattern dependant on which branch you're on, (Mornington Crescent), and thus you may need to change trains based on the branch you're on.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Except there is a difference in calling pattern dependant on which branch you're on, (Mornington Crescent), and thus you may need to change trains based on the branch you're on.

That seems pushing it as a reason. If someone boarded a train at - say - Bank or Moorgate, and was unaware they needed to change at Euston or Camden Town to reach Mornington Crescent because trains through Bank don't stop there, then I can't see that announcing Euston as 'Euston Bank Branch' is going to make any difference to them. In all likelihood, such a person still won't realise they need to change trains there.

 

[Daniel]

That seems pushing it as a reason. If someone boarded a train at - say - Bank or Moorgate, and was unaware they needed to change at Euston or Camden Town to reach Mornington Crescent because trains through Bank don't stop there, then I can't see that announcing Euston as 'Euston Bank Branch' is going to make any difference to them. In all likelihood, such a person still won't realise they need to change trains there.

It may be pushing it in your opinion, but it's still factual!

Same reason on the Northbound trains announce "Camden Town, Edgware Branch". If you're heading to Barnet and didn't know you'd need to get on a Barnet train, will that announcement prompt you to do so? Probably not. But still, that's why it's there.

 

[thomalex]

You would have Northern Line Northbound, Northern Line Southbound, Southern Line Northbound and Southern Line Southbound. Hardly easy to signpost at Euston, and even worse at Camden Town.

Well you already have the Northern line northbound and southbound, with its two branches, of course.

Southern line was just a name used in the mock up but it could be something else. City line maybe?

 

[Dent]

Well you already have the Northern line northbound and southbound, with its two branches, of course.

Southern line was just a name used in the mock up but it could be something else. City line maybe?

If I recall correctly there is already a thread about various proposals to apply the Northern Line.

Like most of the suggestions, it's not clear what this is trying to achieve, and it seems to have more disadvantages than advantage.

 

[Busaholic]

Well you already have the Northern line northbound and southbound, with its two branches, of course.

Southern line was just a name used in the mock up but it could be something else. City line maybe?

Or go full circle and call it City and South London Line, as a sort of tribute act.

 

[Recessio]

Maybe its because Mornington Crescent is only on the Charing Cross branch.

I wonder if this is the answer. Much easier to reuse the "Euston bank branch" recording from southbound trains, than record an entirely new announcement "this train does not call at Mornington Crescent" or something.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I wonder if this is the answer. Much easier to reuse the "Euston bank branch" recording from southbound trains, than record an entirely new announcement "this train does not call at Mornington Crescent" or something.

But why would TfL want to announce that the train doesn't call at Mornington Crescent? Who do you think would benefit from such an announcement? If you board a northbound Northern line train anywhere between Borough and Kings Cross then you should be expecting to have to change trains to get to Mornington Crescent, because none of the trains at those stations call at Mornington Crescent: There's simply no 'normal' reason why passengers on a Bank branch train should be under any impression that the train would call at Mornington Crescent and therefore should need to be told that it doesn't.

You may as well have an announcement on High Barnet trains explicitly clarifying that the train doesn't call at Golders Green - it would be exactly as useful (not)!

 

[Recessio]

But why would TfL want to announce that the train doesn't call at Mornington Crescent? Who do you think would benefit from such an announcement? If you board a northbound Northern line train anywhere between Borough and Kings Cross then you should be expecting to have to change trains to get to Mornington Crescent, because none of the trains at those stations call at Mornington Crescent: There's simply no 'normal' reason why passengers on a Bank branch train should be under any impression that the train would call at Mornington Crescent and therefore should need to be told that it doesn't.

You may as well have an announcement on High Barnet trains explicitly clarifying that the train doesn't call at Golders Green - it would be exactly as useful (not)!

Mornington Crescent is a unique case because the stations either side of it are served by both branches, but Mornington Crescent itself isn't. For any other station it's much more obvious to see which branch it is on, but I could understand a first time user, especially e.g. foreign tourists making the mistake.

And you're right and I agree that it's not worthy of it's own announcement... which is precisely what I said.

 

[bramling]

Mornington Crescent is a unique case because the stations either side of it are served by both branches, but Mornington Crescent itself isn't. For any other station it's much more obvious to see which branch it is on, but I could understand a first time user, especially e.g. foreign tourists making the mistake.

And you're right and I agree that it's not worthy of it's own announcement... which is precisely what I said.

The trains already announce “the next station is…” while in the platforms at Camden Town and Euston, so this is already covered. This feature was added fairly recently. It doesn’t work particularly well, as often the doors are closed well before she has got to that part. Another example of the people specifying / designing these things being rather detached from reality.

 

[D7666]

I wonder if there has been some input from those who suffer from sight impairment in that stating Bank or CX branch assists location confirmation, orientation and navigation. Especially as RNIB HQ is around there (ok today a but further away from there than it was) where significant numbers of mobility impaired persons work. The thrust of poster's argument has been not useful information - but those of us who are fully sighted often do not appreciate some of the nuances in audio announcements.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I think it's also that changing between the Northern and Victoria lines (particularly in the "same direction") is much quicker easier if you use the Bank Branch platforms than the CX Branch. I do genuinely think the announcement is useful information

 

[pelli]

No they aren’t; the Southbound platforms at Camden Town are split from the northern branches; customers going Southbound have to consult the boards to determine which platform they require.

Interestingly even though the platforms at Camden Town are split by northern branch (Edgware/High Barnet), southbound trains announce a branch name based on where they will go next after the junction, as heard for example at 21:23 and 22:20 in this "Northern line Full Journey From Edgware to Morden via Bank" Youtube video by X2K9.

This means that on approach to and at Camden Town the on-board announcements name the station as follows:
Platform 1 (Edgware branch northbound): "Camden Town (Edgware Branch)"
Platform 2 (Edgware branch southbound): "Camden Town (Bank Branch)" or "Camden Town (Charing Cross Branch)" depending on train
Platform 3 (High Barnet branch northbound): "Camden Town (High Barnet Branch)"
Platform 4 (High Barnet branch southbound): "Camden Town (Bank Branch)" or "Camden Town (Charing Cross Branch)" depending on train