Certainly would. 5x 5 car diagrams covered will be a very welcome step forward.
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Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW
- Thread starter Class455
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It always seems to be the same 67s that get used, haven't seen the likes of 012,013,014, 017 and 020 out in a long time, is there a reason for this?
014 is the only one of those that's about, that's been powering sets at Crewe ATC on exams this week, started on HD07 then moved to HD02 now it's on HD05.
Currently with TfW are 67006+007 as rescue and recovery. Then 67008, 010, 014, 015, 022, 025, 029 on the sets.
The others are back with DB so presumably have faults/on exams but unsure as to any of thems status.
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craigybagel
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2012
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- 5,085
Going back to this - officially it was always meant to be amended as a197 this week anyway, the use of MKIVs was a subsequently abandoned change of plan, so that's why it probably didn't show on Journey Check.
TrainTrackJack
Member
TOPS shows the following,
67012 IEMD is awaiting parts and expected OK in April,
67013 IEMD was stopped for repairs 29/12, I believe it did a test run to Stafford and back earlier in the week.
67014 is at Crewe ATC as mentioned above.
67017 IEMD is awaiting repairs, expected OK in 2 weeks.
67020 IEMD undergoing repairs, expected OK in 2 weeks.
Hope this helps.
Interesting thanks. Seems other than 012 the whole fleet should be available soon then.
HD05 is on B exam and lengthening at Crewe so will be the 4th 5 car.
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Class15
On Moderation
Thank you very much for all your extremely helpful updates.
HD06 didn't go out due to a door fault. It's hoped to swap it in at Crewe on either time it passes to get everything out.
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50002Superb
Member
Do you know which diagrams HD02 is in today please?
MP393
Member
HD02/67008
04:54 Crewe - Cardiff
08:49 Cardiff - Mancnester
12:30 Manchester - Cardiff
16:50 Cardiff - Manchester
20:24 Manchester - Crewe empties to the shed.
50002Superb
Member
Brill, thanks
Should have a set off Holyhead every Saturday…
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Worth bearing in mind @Craig37 that a 3 carriage 197 formation actually has more standard class capacity than a 4 carriage MK4 set (2.5 coaches of standard), and a 4 carriage one (and especially a 5 and 6 carriage one as I’ve seen more recently on this route) absolutely knocks the boat out of the water, so with Holyhead Cardiff is busy on Saturdays, a 197 isn’t always a bad thing, so long as it’s not a solo /0.
I suppose the long advertised ambition of 3tpd MK4 on the route is completely dead now.
This will provide a bit of much needed resilience so I look forward to that.
Yeah your right about 197 capacity, looked like 1st class had either been declassified or was incredibly popular as nearly every seat looked filled.
There was someone (I think on Facebook) complaining about these getting a 5th coach as all they do is run around half empty.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
The 197s are fantastic in terms of their capacity when running in longer formations. That in bold has stumped me though. God knows I grumble too much, but I don’t know why anyone would actively oppose another carriage being inserted into a set. What on earth could there be to lose from that?
MP393
Member
67008 + HD02 have run into problems on 1V42 at Abergavenny. Not sure whether it’s an issue with the rake, or the Loco, but both don’t seem to enjoy working together recently, being the same loco & set which failed minutes from Cardiff (and a few days later in the platform) a week or so ago!
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Don’t think that was HD02 last week, HD02 has had 67022 up until recently and has been working fine I think. Must be 67008 that is throwing up problems
Door issues on HD02. Seems to be the turn of the doors to be the problem.
That loco only went on that set yesterday, it was on HD06 before but has since had a new compressor.
MP393
Member
Ah yes apologies, I thought it had been glued to that set but obviously mistaken!
In better news at least HD06+67025 have been kicked out of ATC Crewe this afternoon to set swap 1V46 down to Cardiff meaning it’ll be down there to levitate some crowding coming back north on 1W98.
How I got confused between the two when one is black and one is red/white, but yes apologies it was HD06 it failed with last week!
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It baffled me too in honesty haha !
GWVillager
Member
That said, a 4 coach Mk4 has 182 standard class seats, and a 3 car Class 197 (without standard plus) has 188. It’s hardly a major difference, and once the 40 first class seats are factored in (which are seats, of course!), the “2.5 coaches of standard” view is relatively meaningless.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
But I wasn't suggesting a 3 car 197 was an improvement, I was just saying it's not a bad thing on a 4-MK4 (in terms of standard class capacity.)
No it's not. It's 2.5 coaches of which the vast majority of customers on board can use.
GWVillager
Member
I mean, in a pure sense, yes. But the Mk4s obviously have first class, a buffet, increased comfort etc. and we could go on for hours so I shall stop!
Coaches are sort of irrelevant, though. Seating wise, there is no real difference. You wouldn’t say a Class 231 is higher capacity than a 3 car 197 just because it has 4 coaches (or even 5 by some definitions). It makes more sense to just compare seating capacity rather than the inconsistent proxy of coach numbers.
Mk4s are pretty good at carrying large loads surprisingly, given that's not at all what they were designed for. The added bonus that large luggage, bikes etc aren't present as they can be put out the way in the DVT.
Heavily loaded 197s on the other hand that I've been on have struggled as there normally ends up cases everywhere and people seem to congregate around the doors even more so than on other units possibly due to the fairly narrow aisles and little to hold onto with the seat grab handles being extremely low.
GWVillager
Member
This has long been a favourite argument of mine for end vestibules - they encourage people to move down into the vehicle, rather than just stand around the doors. On a busy Mk4, people will often sit next to other passengers, whereas people will stand on a 197 long before all the seats are taken, blocking the doors and making general movement/boarding difficult.
If time and money were no objects, it would be interesting to see what would happen if you put, say, 300 people in a Mk4 set and then moved them to a 3 (or even 4) car 197. It may well be the case that the latter performed better, but I’m not sure.
I'm not sure I'd agree that it's purely where the doors are. In my experience the 175s were awful for people hanging round in the vestibules long before all the seats were gone. It may be as simple as the way the Mk4 vestibule doors open using the pressure pads that people enter the seating area without having to do anything, genuinely not sure why it varies so much between different stock.
That would be an interesting experiment!
GWVillager
Member
That’s a convincing explanation. It’s probably a number of factors - the Mk4 vestibules aren’t particularly “nice”, and may subconsciously cause people to feel uncomfortable in a way that the 175s and 197s don’t. I wonder how much of it was intentional design by Met-Cam, seen as they were building a long distance train.