Fastest Accelerating MUs in the UK

[Railperf]

38 seconds to 60mph


On the contrary, it's perfectly possible.

Now I'm not sure if the 395s themselves have an overspeed limiter, but the TVM430 will allow an overspeed margin of 15km/h at over 160km/h before intervening with a brake application.

Though as you rightly say such methods of speed recording are not 100% accurate, but it's very possible you did touch 141mph, don't feel you have to rule it out straight off the bat!

The TVM signalling system supervises speed and will intervene with braking over at least 10kph over the permitted speed
But data downloads by driver managers keep real speeds to no more than a few kph over the limit.

Due to gradients and speed restrictions over switches and crossings departing and approaching stations - combined with quite steep gradients, it is Impossible to measure a clean 0-140mph acceleration run on level track.

 

[Jamesrob637]

What about the Class 395s on the HS1 running lines between St Pancras and Ashford International?

The unit I was on yesterday I logged at doing 141mph and before anyone says that's not possible, I just stress I was using a speed app in my android device using GPS and yes I know it's not 100% accurate.

I did notice every so often the unit would creep to 140mph then would reduce speed to a average of 138mph.

I'm sure we hit 50mph before we fully left Stratford International platforms.

Stratford I has long platforms!

 

[supervc-10]

Aren't the 395s scheduled for 125mph but able to go at 140 to make up time?

 

[hexagon789]

Aren't the 395s scheduled for 125mph but able to go at 140 to make up time?

I'm pretty sure that's a myth and they are timed for and run at 225km/h ordinarily on HS1

 

[supervc-10]

I'm sure I'd read it somewhere, but of course, that may have been the myth!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Aren't the 395s scheduled for 125mph but able to go at 140 to make up time?

No I've been on one at 135 and another at 130. The best example of what you've questioned is the first and second gen ICE in Deutschland which normally only run at 250kmh but may go to 280kmh to recoup delays.

 

[hexagon789]

The TVM signalling system supervises speed and will intervene with braking over at least 10kph over the permitted speed
But data downloads by driver managers keep real speeds to no more than a few kph over the limit.

Due to gradients and speed restrictions over switches and crossings departing and approaching stations - combined with quite steep gradients, it is Impossible to measure a clean 0-140mph acceleration run on level track.

I'd imagine they could easily make 140 before a 390 can make 125, they are quite sprightly units the 395s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The acceleration on 331s doesn't 'tail off' noticeably at higher speeds. If a driver isn't careful they'll be well over 100mph in seconds. I'd love to know exactly what speed they'd reach, I have little doubt that it'd be easily well over 120-130mph.

Do we know if the traction package on the CAF 331 is the same as on the 397?
That would explain their high speed capability (I know they are in a different bodyshell/configuration).
The electrics for both are from TSA (Traktionssysteme Austria), which also powers some Stadler EMUs (and Metrolink's trams!).

 

[notadriver]

I'd imagine they could easily make 140 before a 390 can make 125, they are quite sprightly units the 395s.

I’ve had 0-60 in 36 seconds from a 395 which is remarkable for a unit geared for a 140 mph maximum. The newer and faster units to 60 are all geared for 100 mph maximum or less.

I don’t know if 140 would be reached before 125 on a Pendolino. Power tails off slightly above 125.

 

[hexagon789]

I don’t know if 140 would be reached before 125 on a 395. Power tails off slightly above 125.

I was basing it on the same gearing as 390s (140mph), the higher power-to-weight of the 395 and the 395's much faster initial acceleration but it is just speculation on my part. Perhaps I should have said I wouldn't be surprised if they could rather than I expect they could?

 

[hwl]

Do we know if the traction package on the CAF 331 is the same as on the 397?
That would explain their high speed capability (I know they are in a different bodyshell/configuration).
The electrics for both are from TSA (Traktionssysteme Austria), which also powers some Stadler EMUs (and Metrolink's trams!).

The traction motors are TSA but the traction electronics are CAF own design (they have been making their own for 5-6 years after previously buying in ABB or Siemens)

 

[Jamesrob637]

I’ve had 0-60 in 36 seconds from a 395 which is remarkable for a unit geared for a 140 mph maximum. The newer and faster units to 60 are all geared for 100 mph maximum or less.

I don’t know if 140 would be reached before 125 on a 395. Power tails off slightly above 125.

I think a 397 will be at 125 before a 395 is at 140 given parallel running conditions. I think 395s do depend on the downgrade of the Medway Bridge a bit after Ebbsfleet.

 

[Railperf]

I think a 397 will be at 125 before a 395 is at 140 given parallel running conditions. I think 395s do depend on the downgrade of the Medway Bridge a bit after Ebbsfleet

So far we have not recorded a faster 0-60moh time of around 41 seconds for a Class 397 - while the 395 gets gets to 60mph around 5 seconds quicker - impressive indeed.

 

[notadriver]

I think a 397 will be at 125 before a 395 is at 140 given parallel running conditions. I think 395s do depend on the downgrade of the Medway Bridge a bit after Ebbsfleet.

There’s no doubt the downhill gradient helps but I’m betting the a 395 is coasting a lot of the way downhill towards the Medway bridge.

 

[Whistler40145]

Are Class 185s the only units whereby engines can be selectively shut down when full power isn’t required?

 

[hexagon789]

I think a 397 will be at 125 before a 395 is at 140 given parallel running conditions. I think 395s do depend on the downgrade of the Medway Bridge a bit after Ebbsfleet.

Looking at Eversholt's own data:

395 to 200km/h - 150 seconds
395 to 225km/h - 230 seconds

397 to 200km/h - 210 seconds

Are Class 185s the only units whereby engines can be selectively shut down when full power isn’t required?

The only ones I know of. Though the DEMU classes (22x) can run with one or two engines out without much detriment to performance, but that's not quite the same thing of course.

 

[Railperf]

There’s no doubt the downhill gradient helps but I’m betting the a 395 is coasting a lot of the way downhill towards the Medway bridge.

Depends on the driver. I know a certain driver that kept as much power on as practically possible to maintain line speed

Looking at Eversholt's own data:

395 to 200km/h - 150 seconds
395 to 225km/h - 230 seconds

397 to 200km/h - 210 seconds


The only ones I know of. Though the DEMU classes (22x) can run with one or two engines out without much detriment to performance, but that's not quite the same thing of course.

You can feel the difference with an engine out on a 22x - obvs a 7-car will feel it less than a 4-car.

 

[Halish Railway]

Are Class 185s the only units whereby engines can be selectively shut down when full power isn’t required?

IIRC it is quite common for 222s to have several engines turned off on ECS movements.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looking at Eversholt's own data:

395 to 200km/h - 150 seconds
395 to 225km/h - 230 seconds

397 to 200km/h - 210 seconds

Thank you; confirming what I suspected!

 

[AM9]

IIRC it is quite common for 222s to have several engines turned off on ECS movements.

That means that not all of the seats have to endure the continuous rumble of the engine below.

 

[hexagon789]

You can feel the difference with an engine out on a 22x - obvs a 7-car will feel it less than a 4-car.

I'd imagine it's quite noticeable on a 4-car but you can still make 125mph on 3 engines afaik, I'm sure that was part of the specification.

Thank you; confirming what I suspected!

No problem, their acceleration graphs are quite useful!

 

[Mordac]

That means that not all of the seats have to endure the continuous rumble of the engine below.

Hopefully there won't be anyone sat there on ECS movements!

 

[AM9]

Hopefully there won't be anyone sat there on ECS movements!

That was sent from my phone and the emoticon didn't appear; i.e. joke fell flat.

 

[Railperf]

I'd imagine it's quite noticeable on a 4-car but you can still make 125mph on 3 engines afaik, I'm sure that was part of the specification.


No problem, their acceleration graphs are quite useful!

Yes, it takes slightly longer. But to be fair a 2+8 HST can meet the current 222 schedule.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, it takes slightly longer. But to be fair a 2+8 HST can meet the current 222 schedule.

Very true, but I'm sure the ability comes in handy if it's needed.

 

[Railperf]

Yes.. The 222 (on all engines) can more easily recoup lost time.

Class 745s are also close to top of the list with 0 to 60mph in 38s and 100mph in 103s. So far the best 397 0 to 60mph time recorded is around 43s and 100mph in 105s. No chance to record 0- 125mph yet either.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes.. The 222 (on all engines) can more easily recoup lost time.

Class 745s are also close to top of the list with 0 to 60mph in 38s and 100mph in 103s. So far the best 397 0 to 60mph time recorded is around 43s and 100mph in 105s. No chance to record 0- 125mph yet either.

Eversholt's graph for the 397 suggests just under 110s to 160km/h, ~210s to 200km/h.

Given the figure for 160km/h is reasonably close to your recorded 103s, perhaps we can accept the 200km/h figure as also reasonably likely to be close.

It would be my guess that the graph errs slightly on the cautious side so that irl better figures might be readily obtained.

Perhaps in the region of 200s to reach 125mph would be expected?

 

[Railperf]

Eversholt's graph for the 397 suggests just under 110s to 160km/h, ~210s to 200km/h.

Given the figure for 160km/h is reasonably close to your recorded 103s, perhaps we can accept the 200km/h figure as also reasonably likely to be close.

It would be my guess that the graph errs slightly on the cautious side so that irl better figures might be readily obtained.

Perhaps in the region of 200s to reach 125mph would be expected?

397 does 100 to 110mph in 20s (0 to 110mph in 124s) on a slight downhill gradient. So power would really need to tail off over the last 15mph to take another 90s.

 

[hexagon789]

397 does 100 to 110mph in 20s (0 to 110mph in 124s) on a slight downhill gradient. So power would really need to tail off over the last 15mph to take another 90s.

I'll post the graph in question for others to see, but as I said before I would suspect the graph is what the manufacturer says the train can do and what it was specified to do - the reality may well be better.

 

[375610]

I'm pretty sure that's a myth and they are timed for and run at 225km/h ordinarily on HS1

That's not a myth, I was told that on 'telly' whilst on the first scheduled 395 run by Vince Lucas of Southeastern, the train did 200km/h tops all the way from Ashford to London, I asked why they didn't at least do 225km/h for the cameras (which they said they were doing) he explained that they would only do this when late. I think things have changed as I don't recall running at much less than 225km/h since.